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What's Meant By 'Olive Skinned'?

I think "olive skinned" is an expression that is at the polite end of the spectrum of casual racism.

When I was young, I read books that referred to "swarthy Mediterranean types." Anyone described by the author as "swarthy" was likely to be a bad 'un. It was a code that they were not quite white.

You seldom read "swarthy" these days, but "olive skinned" refers to people of the same background: a darker complexion than a white Englishman, and coming from the part of the world associated with olives.

I may be being over sensitive, but I put "olive skinned" in the same column as my Grandma calling Pakistanis "Indians" because she believed it was it was more polite. She had no malice, but was nevertheless making judgements about race and background based on preconceptions.

Preconceptions are low level prejudices.
 
Mikefule said:
I think "olive skinned" is an expression that is at the polite end of the spectrum of casual racism.

When I was young, I read books that referred to "swarthy Mediterranean types." Anyone described by the author as "swarthy" was likely to be a bad 'un. It was a code that they were not quite white.

You seldom read "swarthy" these days, but "olive skinned" refers to people of the same background: a darker complexion than a white Englishman, and coming from the part of the world associated with olives.

I may be being over sensitive, but I put "olive skinned" in the same column as my Grandma calling Pakistanis "Indians" because she believed it was it was more polite. She had no malice, but was nevertheless making judgements about race and background based on preconceptions.

Preconceptions are low level prejudices.
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@Mikefule - I am in the US, and you are in the UK. I think that several interpretations exist, and that they partially depend on age, socio-economic factors, location and so on.

I am olive-skinned, meaning that my natural, unsuntanned skin has a yellow cast to it, not pink. I have darker, olive-skinned cousins. In my current life, the term olive-skinned has no connotation with sociocultural judgements such as "bad 'un." However, 50 years ago, I do remember older aunts discussing skin darkness and color, and connotations of social inferiority. They very much were against suntanning, as this would darken the skin and one would be judged inferior. Also, as you write, people from the Mediterranean were socially judged to be inferior. (The socially inferior contributors to our gene pool - Asians and Jews - were not much talked about - and never in front of people who were not family :) ) We were all pretending to be whiter than we were!

I think in the US, most people have moved on from this - and some perhaps have moved on to newer ways of socially judging someone as inferior. Human nature does not change quickly.
 
I have never used the term 'olive skinned' but if I did it would be to confer how beautiful someone was (female) and not where they hailed from. And if I were to use the term, I certainly wouldn't think ''do they have olive trees where this person lives?'' No? Can't call them olive skinned then.

Maybe some people do use it as a racist form, but it seems a somewhat pleasant way of referring to someone's skin colour in my opinion.

I definitely wouldn't put the term in the same category as swarthy which did end up having more unfavourable connotations.
 
Mikefule said:
a darker complexion than a white Englishman
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What colour exactly would you mean by that then?
Anything other than the pale skin of a red-headed anglo-saxon?
One shade whiter than 'blue'? And are you using 'Englishmen' to include all British people (The Welsh, The Scots etc) or are you specifically only talking about English people?
And whence therein do you account for people who are descendants of other peoples from other countries that have 'white' skin, e.g. descendants of white Polish people or white Italians (not olive-skinned Italians of course) that came to the UK and settled generations ago?
If you're going to make a sweeping generalisation about any one particular race or group to demonstrate a point of discussion you really need to be less lazy with your choice of words, just for the sake of clarity, and so as not to upset anyone.
 
Cochise said:
... Jesus is definitely a He. But, from what I've seen of him, he has a typical Eastern Mediterranean medium brown skin. (I've never understood what people mean by 'olive-skinned' - I don't know anyone with green skin.) ...
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I imagine the colour of olive oil, when I hear olive skinned, not the fruit colour.
 
Mikefule said:
It was a code that they were not quite white
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I have the feeling that it was a phrase used by Enid Blyton, quite frequently. Their eyes might be hooded or narrow, their accents gutteral.

Evidently, up to no good! Her own little war-effort, I suppose.

Verification would be challenging to conduct, these days, thanks to a generation or two of revised texts! :dunno:
 
Endlessly Amazed- I think we must be long lost cousins. My skin tones are yellow, dark hazel eyes and dark hair. I have been referred to as olive skinned all my life, most of the time I have a light tan but definitely look yellow ish when unwell. I have a couple of snapshots of me on a school trip on a boat when I really look green compared to other pupils.
Growing up in the UK the other term applied to me and my brother was " Touched with a tar brush" which I think is quite rude and possibly a snide way of saying mixed race.
 
Eyespy said:
Endlessly Amazed- I think we must be long lost cousins. My skin tones are yellow, dark hazel eyes and dark hair. I have been referred to as olive skinned all my life, most of the time I have a light tan but definitely look yellow ish when unwell. I have a couple of snapshots of me on a school trip on a boat when I really look green compared to other pupils.
Growing up in the UK the other term applied to me and my brother was " Touched with a tar brush" which I think is quite rude and possibly a snide way of saying mixed race.
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Welcome cousin :) I envision Fortean Family Reunions. I also am more yellowish when unwell.

I have olive skin, blue eyes, and used to be blonde (now gray), with very, very curly hair. Yes, I have heard here in the US the "touched..." phrase as well and have interpreted it to mean some African ancestry. Depending on who was saying it, and how it was said and meant, it may have been offensive or just stating a neutral observation.
 
Reading this thread has left me feeling a bit stupid, but also now enlightened. I have never really known what people meant by the term 'olive-skinned'. It has always made me feel a bit queasy, as if the 'describee' has an oily, sickly grey-green complexion. Not a nice image. Not helped by the fact that for the first 55 years of my life I hated olives. After a gorgeous sun-drenched holiday in Southern Spain, I now rather like them. And now I feel I understand the skin tone much better too. Win-win. Thanks, guys :bthumbup:
 
Trevp666 said:
What colour exactly would you mean by that then?
Anything other than the pale skin of a red-headed anglo-saxon?
One shade whiter than 'blue'? And are you using 'Englishmen' to include all British people (The Welsh, The Scots etc) or are you specifically only talking about English people?
And whence therein do you account for people who are descendants of other peoples from other countries that have 'white' skin, e.g. descendants of white Polish people or white Italians (not olive-skinned Italians of course) that came to the UK and settled generations ago?
If you're going to make a sweeping generalisation about any one particular race or group to demonstrate a point of discussion you really need to be less lazy with your choice of words, just for the sake of clarity, and so as not to upset anyone.
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I was using the term "a white Englishman" in the way that I believe it would have been thought of by a "white Englishman" of the time. It was not my own opinion, but my shorthand way of parodying the simplistic, perhaps unconsciously, bigoted and jingoistic attitudes of the time. Maybe I should have put it in "quotes" to make this more clear.
 
ChasFink said:
I'm reminded of the old story of the dimwitted operatic tenor who loved to show off his physique. When playing Otello (a Moor) he came on stage bare-chested, wearing dark makeup that only covered his face and hands.
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I actually quite like that. He's playing a Moor, he isn't one.
 
Mikefule said:
I was using the term "a white Englishman" in the way that I believe it would have been thought of by a "white Englishman" of the time. It was not my own opinion, but my shorthand way of parodying the simplistic, perhaps unconsciously, bigoted and jingoistic attitudes of the time. Maybe I should have put it in "quotes" to make this more clear.
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I think they were mostly pink, tending towards purple.
 
My sister has a yellow toned skin, slightly slanted dark brown eyes and straight black hair. When she first went to the Grammar School at the end of the 70s, the mean boys used to call her "Chink" and sing "Turning Japanese" at her. This colour combination came from our dad with "Irish" colouring (black hair, blue eyes, white skin) and our mum, a brown-eyed brunette with a lesser yellow toned skin, but quite why the eye shape, no idea. When I encountered a lecturer down here who had known my sister at her place of work, I asked him whether he had seen the Asian resemblance, and he shrugged and said he always thought of her colouring as more Middle Eastern. So I would call her olive-skinned without intending it to be derogatory.
 
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