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When is a werewolf not a werewolf?

tilly50

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Are all sightings of bipedal wolf like beings attributed to werewolves?

Arn't werewolves people who turn or claim to turn into a wolf at a particular time (new moon, etc)?

If there is a sighting of a werewolf like creature might that creature be like that all the time?

Odd thought are there animals that turn into humans?? :shock: A were-person!!!
 
In the Hellboy comics they remark on how a mandrill or baboon might be thought a werewolf, for someone who hasn´t seen one before.
 
Xanatico said:
In the Hellboy comics they remark on how a mandrill or baboon might be thought a werewolf, for someone who hasn´t seen one before.

Also, there's that big lemur that has a sort of vulpine head and a penchant for walking on two legs. BTW, I have been thinking on this subject and I wonder if a person with a craneofacial deformity could be mistaken for a Wolf headed person. I am thinking someone like Grace McDaniel, the "Mule headed woman".
 
I doubt she could be seen as a werewolf, she just looks deformed. But there´s always those super hairy humans* which could be though to be part beast.


*could make a good name for a tribute band to Super Furry Animals.
 
tilly50 said:
Odd thought are there animals that turn into humans?? :shock: A were-person!!!
In one of Terry Pratchett's novels, there's a scenario where there are two werewolves, one that is normaly a female human and one that is normaly a male wolf who both become something inbetween and can therefore only have a relationship every full moon.
 
I still think that someone with a extreme craneofacial deformity could be mistaken for a werewolf, probably not the extremely hairy Lon Chaney type, but having something like a snout, I had a dream like that once when I was a kind, but the "werewolf" looked more like a living version of Disney's Beagle Boys than a monster.
 
Interesting that worldwide the "were"(lexilink,"were"mearly means "man" in Old English)creature is human that becomes the top predator for whichever region,wolf in Europe,leopard in Africa, etc..
I personally know someone who swears he saw a werewolf just over the border in Kent,(very heavy dude biker type), just waiting to meet up with him again,will then write up a report, (scarred the crap out of him !)
 
LividBullseye said:
....(lexilink,"were"mearly means "man" in Old English)

Thus the old Anglo-Germanic word for "salary" (which itself is cognate with "salt," as in "worth their salt") was "weregeld," literally "man gold" or "man money."
 
Tilly, thanks very much for starting this topic. I was within a couple of days of starting it myself.

It struck me some time ago that many things have been subsumed under the general heading of "werewolf" besides the common-understood meaning of men changing into wolves (or vice versa).

For example:

1. "Dog-Headed" men, as reported by ancient and mediaeval geographers.

2. Spectral or ghost wolves.

3. Especially vicious wolves or perhaps other species preying on humans, such as at Gevaudan in the 1760s.

4. Wolves showing nearly-human cunning.

5. Traditional British Black Dogs.

6. Demons in lupine form.

7. Serial killers of the Stumpe Peeter and Peter Kurten variety.

8. Naturally bi-pedal dogs.

9. Chupacabras.
 
10. The Nazi "Werewolves," young guerrilla warriors who were supposed to rise up from the rubble of the bombed out German cities in 1945 and 1946 and attack the occupying Allies. And which in sober reality proved to be entirely non-existent.
 
Chupacabras? That's stretching it a bit. If we're including chupacabras then we should be including Hairy Dwarves, who are much more wolf-like. Aren't Chupacabras supposed to be blood-suckers?

Anyhow, tell me more about these "naturally bi-pedal dogs".
 
graylien said:
Chupacabras? That's stretching it a bit. If we're including chupacabras then we should be including Hairy Dwarves, who are much more wolf-like. Aren't Chupacabras supposed to be blood-suckers?

A lot of descriptions of Chupacabras, especially those from Texas, make them sound like demonic foxes/coyotes and therefore canines (at least in those descriptions.)

Anyhow, tell me more about these "naturally bi-pedal dogs".

They're North Argentinian and skeptics have claimed that they're what people are actually seeing when they report bi-pedal werewolves in that area. They travel bi-pedally approximately half the time.
 
H_James said:
10)people suffering from ergotism.

People always accuse me of suffering from that.

No, wait just a minute, that's egotism.

Sorry.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
They're North Argentinian and skeptics have claimed that they're what people are actually seeing when they report bi-pedal werewolves in that area. They travel bi-pedally approximately half the time.

It's called the Aguara Guazu, IIRC, and its hind legs are longer than the front ones. But I find it hard to imagine one of them looking humanlike enough to be a convincing "werewolf". Can you give us a link or more detailed info about their bipedal motion?

----

And here we have a picture of the beast in question, by the way
Ibera-aguara-guazu.JPG
 
Onix_Martinez said:
Can you give us a link or more detailed info about their bipedal motion?

Not really, and my apologies. What I know about these animals comes from skeptical reports around six years ago, attempting to explain the bi-pedal Argentian werewolf which had been observed by, on the same night, 18 witnesses in two separate locations.

Hair and fur samples of the "werewolf" had been obtained at that time and the Argentinian authorities promised DNA results "soon," but you know what THAT means.

Thanks for the photograph!
 
Onix_Martinez said:
It's called the Aguara Guazu, IIRC, and its hind legs are longer than the front ones. But I find it hard to imagine one of them looking humanlike enough to be a convincing "werewolf".

They don't necessarily have to look convincingly like half wolf/ half human to be assumed as werewolves. Imagine, 3 or 4 hundred years ago, superstition is rife and fear of the supernatural is common. You've heard of werewolves, but you're not really sure you totally believe what you've heard, and then... you see a lupine/ canid creature walking on its hind legs in the wild, and in the shock of seeing this unusual spectacle, you're mind jumps to whatever closest resembles what you see... whether real or imaginary - for some, that's going to be werewolves!!

We use these mental processes all the time to recognise things, and hopefully adapt or understand them, but unfortunately, sometimes our imaginations run wild. This leap to the remarkably bizarre explanations still occurs today, just not as much because of our "supposed" more logical approach to the world. But, unfortunately, in the heat of the moment, it doesn't always work like that...

That's a nice pic as well... i'm going to have a quick search to see if I can find any of them standing or walking.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
LividBullseye said:
....(lexilink,"were"mearly means "man" in Old English)

Thus the old Anglo-Germanic word for "salary" (which itself is cognate with "salt," as in "worth their salt") was "weregeld," literally "man gold" or "man money."

I'm wondering whether, somewhere, this ties in with the FT piece a few years ago about Norse or Saxons wearing wolf heads - maybe paid mercenaries or a nod towards shared loot of raiders.
 
That all makes great sense, Semyaz, towards explaining ARGENTINIAN werewolves, but I can't see that it does much for the European variety, which I believe was being reported before the first modern Europeans ever reached Argentina.
 
jefflovestone said:
OldTimeRadio said:
LividBullseye said:
....(lexilink,"were"mearly means "man" in Old English)

Thus the old Anglo-Germanic word for "salary" (which itself is cognate with "salt," as in "worth their salt") was "weregeld," literally "man gold" or "man money."

I'm wondering whether, somewhere, this ties in with the FT piece a few years ago about Norse or Saxons wearing wolf heads - maybe paid mercenaries or a nod towards shared loot of raiders.
Which all ties in nicely with Wulvers.
The wulver is a kind of werewolf that is exclusively part of the folklore of the Shetland Islands of Scotland. It's described as a man, covered with short brown hair but with a wolf's head.
IIRC the entity seen by Dr Anne Ross during the Hexham Heads phenomenon was tentatively identified by the good doctor herself as a wulver (thread about the happenings here, and they're mentioned in passing elsewhere.)
 
jefflovestone said:
I'm wondering whether, somewhere, this ties in with the FT piece a few years ago about Norse or Saxons wearing wolf heads - maybe paid mercenaries or a nod towards shared loot of raiders.

Might we be putting the cart before the horse here, especially since the lycanthrope "myth" apparently stretches back to far remoter times?

Could the Norse and the Saxons have worn wolf heads to convince their more-superstitious military enemies that they were indeed werewolves or wolfmen?

Remember that the Nazis in early 1945 attempted, though with an almost total lack of success, to organize "Werewolf" divisions from the tattered remnants of the Hitler Youth, who'd fade into the general population of post-War Germany and then carry out a war of attrition (and worse, much worse) against the occupying Allies.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Could the Norse and the Saxons have worn wolf heads to convince their more-superstitious military enemies that they were indeed werewolves or wolfmen?
Or wulvers. See above post but one. A lot of Shetland motifs and traditions are Scandinavian in origin.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Might we be putting the cart before the horse here, especially since the lycanthrope "myth" apparently stretches back to far remoter times?

It would if I did what you think I'm suggesting, but I'm not! ;)

Could the Norse and the Saxons have worn wolf heads to convince their more-superstitious military enemies that they were indeed werewolves or wolfmen?

I've actually found the article I was alluding to: it's by Claire Stubbs in FT195. It's coming from the angle of Black Shuck attacking churches. The suggestion is that during the Anglo-Saxon period the narrative of the Black Dog takes a more 'hands on' and violent approach. Linguistic references to wulf, wyllf and wearg; wulf also meant a cruel person - and a wulfheort meant a particularly cruel person: a wolf-heart. Other references include wulfesheafod (wolf's head) meaning outlaw and that outlaws were hung from wulfesheafod-treow (wolf's head tree). Similarly explaining how wearg meant wolf as well as criminal, villain, scoundrel, monster, evil spirit &c.

It also ties all this in with the Viking ulfhednar who wore wolf skins &c.

Whilst I'm not suggesting that this is the origin of the werewolf by any means in either this or my earlier post, I thought the connection between the language and description was worth noting and commenting on.

Remember that the Nazis in early 1945 attempted, though with an almost total lack of success, to organize "Werewolf" divisions from the tattered remnants of the Hitler Youth, who'd fade into the general population of post-War Germany and then carry out a war of attrition (and worse, much worse) against the occupying Allies.

I also thought of those as I was writing but it was going too far from the idea I was suggesting.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
That all makes great sense, Semyaz, towards explaining ARGENTINIAN werewolves, but I can't see that it does much for the European variety, which I believe was being reported before the first modern Europeans ever reached Argentina.

I agree :) ;)
 
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