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Where Will Our Clean Energy Come From?

Mythopoeika said:
Die if we do, die if we don't!
We may as well die comfortably.
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I think I've solved it. . .
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Working in the heating industry for years I remember when condensing boilers first came in. Although more efficient at extracting heat they were very unreliable and we all thought they had been rushed into use before they had been properly developed - I wonder if it will be the same with heat pumps and so on. I wonder if there has ever been a survey on comparative cost to the environment (in terms of cost to produce, extra repair and so on) of a conventional gas boiler running at around 75% efficiency but often lasting for 30 years with basically only a heat exchanger, gas valve, burner and thermocouple to go wrong against a condensing boiler with 90% gas efficiency but with a lifespan of around 10-15 years with 2 heat exchangers, fan, several sensors, electronic ignition, built in programmers and sometimes up to 3 circuit boards.
 
Giant R said:
Working in the heating industry for years I remember when condensing boilers first came in. Although more efficient at extracting heat they were very unreliable and we all thought they had been rushed into use before they had been properly developed - I wonder if it will be the same with heat pumps and so on. I wonder if there has ever been a survey on comparative cost to the environment (in terms of cost to produce, extra repair and so on) of a conventional gas boiler running at around 75% efficiency but often lasting for 30 years with basically only a heat exchanger, gas valve, burner and thermocouple to go wrong against a condensing boiler with 90% gas efficiency but with a lifespan of around 10-15 years with 2 heat exchangers, fan, several sensors, electronic ignition, built in programmers and sometimes up to 3 circuit boards.
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Yeah, and when they fit the flipping thing with all that clobber, where will I live. . . ?
 
Sid said:
Yeah, and when they fit the flipping thing with all that clobber, where will I live. . . ?
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'They' don't care about where or whether we live.
Ponder that for a moment.
 
Oops! Silly me. I’m forgetting about the kids. So that’s a student debt of about £30k, an electric car for about 15 grand, a house deposit, shelling out for new home insulation and at least 10 grand for replacing the heating if they’re buying an older property as well as constantly rising electricity prices. If I were them, I’d be screaming about no chance of having a future from that point of view. Let’s face it, they’re fucked and when china and india ramp up, their protests here in the uk will be a waste of time anyway.
 
My son will be okay when he gets his inheritance though.
About £50k of debt.
 
Analogue Boy said:
Just great. Having a power cut here.
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Never mind 'Analogue Boy,' just think of the money saved! :) See, there's always a 'brighter' (maybe not?) side to everything.
Or, I suppose you could say a 'Lighter' side to everything with the predicament you are experiencing.
 
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Sid said:
Never mind 'Analogue Boy,' just think of the money saved! :) See, there's always a 'brighter' (maybe not?) side to everything.
Or, I suppose you could say a 'Lighter' side to everything with the predicament you are experiencing.
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Ho ho. It’s on now but I think the oven’s broken.
 
So we’re finally getting a clearer picture of how we’ll cope with everyone plugging in their cars at peak times. Simply disable the chargers when most people need to use them!

Charging points for electric cars will be preset to turn off for NINE HOURS a day amid fears they will cause blackouts if government hits target for phasing out petrol and diesel​

  • Government says electric car chargers should turn off by default at peak times
  • Fears over impact of huge numbers of drivers plugging in their cars at same time
Charging points for electric cars will be preset to turn off for nine hours a day amid fears they could cause blackouts with the government pushing the switch from diesel and petrol.

From May, every new charger will automatically not function at 'peak times' to ease the pressure on the national grid.

There is also set to be a 'randomised delay' of up to 30 minutes if there is high demand from motorists.

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps is said to be anxious that huge numbers of drivers will plug in their car when they return home between 5pm and 7pm.

Motoring experts said the measure would be a 'nudge' for drivers to consider charging vehicles during off-peak hours.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...cars-preset-turn-NINE-HOURS-day.html#comments


 
Analogue Boy said:
So we’re finally getting a clearer picture of how we’ll cope with everyone plugging in their cars at peak times. Simply disable the chargers when most people need to use them!

Charging points for electric cars will be preset to turn off for NINE HOURS a day amid fears they will cause blackouts if government hits target for phasing out petrol and diesel​

  • Government says electric car chargers should turn off by default at peak times
  • Fears over impact of huge numbers of drivers plugging in their cars at same time


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...cars-preset-turn-NINE-HOURS-day.html#comments
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Gosh yes, that'll really solve the problem.
 
Population of Welwyn Garden City = 48380.
Population of Hatfield = 39201
Total number of public 'on street' charging points for electric vehicles in Welwyn Hatfield Borough Council = 4
Plus there are 6 small parades of shops which have between 1 - 4 charging points each

WHBC states that "New charging points are being introduced during 2021. It follows a successful funding bid to government which saw the council awarded over £100k from the Office for Low Emission Vehicles (OLEV). " but gives no details of where these will be located.

Otherwise the installation of charge points is not their responsibility.
"Any enquiries or requests relating to installation of electric charging points on the public highway should be directed to Hertfordshire County Council as they are the Highways Authority who manage all infrastructure on highway land. We cannot as Borough Council at this time install charging points upon the public highway."

I sent an FOI to WHBC asking about how much has been spent on charging points and what will be done to provide every resident with a charging point by 2030, but just got a short reply directing me to their original statement from 2019, and a contact email address for Herts County Council, who I also submitted an FOI to but have not had a reply.

So it doesn't look good.
If all car users in the WHBC area have electric vehicles in 2030 it looks like at the current (sorry for the pun) rates of installation of charge points then drivers will be fighting over the way-too-few charge points.
At present there appears to be a total of about 40 charge points spread across the borough with plans for another 8 to be created this year.
It's clearly not good enough.
I expect they think that residents will foot the cost of installing their own charge points at home, but then that doesn't address all the people that live in flats or HMOs etc - we will end up with the ridiculous situation where people are draping cables from their windows out to their cars!!!
That's assuming that they can even get a parking space near their home. The new buildings being erected in the town centre are being constructed with no parking provisions whatsoever as they are being marketed at people who will commute in to 'the city' by train or other public transport.
 
Analogue Boy said:
So we’re finally getting a clearer picture of how we’ll cope with everyone plugging in their cars at peak times. Simply disable the chargers when most people need to use them!

Charging points for electric cars will be preset to turn off for NINE HOURS a day amid fears they will cause blackouts if government hits target for phasing out petrol and diesel​

  • Government says electric car chargers should turn off by default at peak times
  • Fears over impact of huge numbers of drivers plugging in their cars at same time


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...cars-preset-turn-NINE-HOURS-day.html#comments
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So you will be f**cked if you run out of charge at peak times, this whole 'everyone needs to drive electric cars' wasnt really thought through very well was it!
 
Analogue Boy said:
Surely if you stop people all charging at once at peak time, you create a backlog of people still needing to charge, creating another peak time afterwards.
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Maybe then they'll find a way to reduce the voltage or something? Okay so it will mean it takes longer to fully charge but that's okay cos if you have to wait 9 hours to charge up then another hour or two ain't going to worry you is it?
 
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