White Dog Poo?

[Mighty_Emperor]

 

[escargot]

(Puts down fork very carefully)

That'll teach me to eat while I'm surfing.

 

[Anonymous]

me and my mates were talking about what ever happened to white dog, erm, poo the other day. i was going to start a thread when lo and behold this one appeared! now i know slightly too much about the poo-ing process. i may never eat again!!!

 

[Beakmoo]

Hmmmmm...I use silica gel cat litter as my cat lives in my bedroom/bathroom and it is the least smelly type-it completely dries out her turds but they don't get noticably paler-I wonder if sunlight/daylight is a factor in the whitening process? She eats top of the range dried cat food.

It seems to need the rain to wash out the organic matter as well as the sun to dry it.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Puer

Ahhhhh now the old dictionary in the house shows the pure is also spelt puer although it is tricky tracking anything down through this - althouh I found:

http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/pu/puer208219.html

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/puer

Some discussion on its use:

http://journals.iranscience.net:800...ientist.com/opinion/opletters.jsp@id=ns236212

http://journals.iranscience.net:800...ientist.com/opinion/opletters.jsp@id=ns235817

I did find a pleasant quote from VS Pritchett's autobiography "A Cab at the Door":

There was a daylight gloom in this district of London. One breathed the heavy, drugging, beer smell of hops and there was another smell of boots and dog dung: this came from the leather which had been steeped for a month in puer or dog dung before the process of tanning.

Here is a useful one:

Other useful dungs include puer, dog dung mixed with water that was once used by tanners to treat hides and skins; and album graecum, the dried dung of dogs and hyenas that is sometimes used in dressing leather. A Latin term, album graecum literally means Greek white and refers to the fact that the substance becomes white when exposed to air.

from:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/wftw/00sep/090800.htm

which clearly provides more leads (not dog leads though)......

Emps

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Puer

album graecum, the dried dung of dogs and hyenas that is sometimes used in dressing leather

Apparently used in medicines as well:

http://info.med.yale.edu/library/historical/fuller/fullerg.htm

A Gargle for a Quinsy.
Take Columbines 2 handfuls; inner rind of Elm 1 ounce; Jews Ears, Liquorice, Album Graecum, each half an ounce; boil in Water 2 pints and half to 26 ounces; in the strain'd dissolve Salt Armoniac 2 drams; Syrup of Raspberries, Honey of Roses, each 3 ounces.

It humects, foments and mollifies the Muscles of the Throat, when inflam'd, swol'n up 'till almost crack'd, parch'd and scorch'd with Drought and Heat. It deterges the Glands and salivale Ducts, when outwardly smear'd over with Slime, and opens them when inwardly stuffed up with Phlegm.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Album Graecum

Dung of dogs or hyenas, which becomes white by exposure to air. It is used in dressing leather, and was formerly used in medicine.

http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/al/albumgraecum128567.html

And on the medicine fron this comes from Thomas Fuller's 1710 "Pharmacopoeia Extemporanea" (page 180):

A Gargle for a Quinsy.
Take Columbines 2 handfuls; inner rind of Elm 1 ounce; Jews Ears, Liquorice, Album Graecum, each half an ounce; boil in Water 2 pints and half to 26 ounces; in the strain'd dissolve Salt Armoniac 2 drams; Syrup of Raspberries, Honey of Roses, each 3 ounces.

It humects, foments and mollifies the Muscles of the Throat, when inflam'd, swol'n up 'till almost crack'd, parch'd and scorch'd with Drought and Heat. It deterges the Glands and salivale Ducts, when outwardly smear'd over with Slime, and opens them when inwardly stuffed up with Phlegm.

from:
http://www.med.yale.edu/library/historical/fuller/fullerg.htm

See also:
http://www.med.yale.edu/library/historical/fuller/contents.htm

it looks like this was phased out in preference to a bread and milk poltice:

Many other external applications are reccommended in this disease, as a swallows nest, poultices made of the fungus called Jews ears, album Graecum, &c. But as we do not look upon any of these to be preferable to a common poultice of bread and milk, we shall take no farther notice of them.

http://www.americanrevolution.org/med28.html

from the 1785 second edition of Dr. W. Buchan's "Domestic Medicine":
http://www.americanrevolution.org/medicine.html

It made an appearance in the 1677 play "The Rover; Or the Banish'd Cavliers" by Aphra Benn:

Fetherfool.

Well, how happy am I, in having so true a Friend to condole
me in Affliction—[Weeps.] I am oblig’d to Seignior Harlequin
too, for bringing me hither to the Mountebank’s, where I shall
not only conceal this Catastrophe from those fortunate Rogues
our Comrades, but procure a little Album Graecum for my
Backside. Come, Seignior, my Clothes—but, Seignior—un
Portavera Poco palanea. [Dresses himself.]

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/b/b42r/part16.html

It has also been used to describe coprolites (fossilised dung):

In his 1823 paper, Buckland called the fossilized hyena feces album graecum in reference to their white color.

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/4003/31079

------------
As an aside it appears the band Dwarfstar where initially called Album Graecum (and one of the members ended up in the band, still doing the rounds, Cradle of Filth):

http://www.tartareandesire.com/bands/dwarfstar.html

[edit: Ahhhh Windwhistler beat me to that one - I suspect that is the use as a medicine that was mentioned earlier]

Emps

 

[Anonymous]

Re: you want me to do what?

when we were raising our family dog, back in the 80's, there was a warning about feeding your dog bones. Supposedly the bones could splinter and perforate the dog.

I think this applies mainly to poultry bones. Bird bones have a honeycomb like structure (presumably as a weight saving adaptation), which makes them more likely to splinter than mammal bones.

 

[escargot]

I believe that poultry bones are dangerous for dogs. All such delicacies in my household are directed to the shed roof where Tiggy the Monster Cat lives. She loves all kinds of bones and has been known to swipe a turkey carcase from an unwary human hand.

(When I see a picked-clean chicken thigh bone I think of 'The Silence Of The Lambs'. :eek!!!!: )

A friend of mine lost a dog through feeding it bones. A splinter caught in the dog's gut caused terrible suffering- poor thing was put down.

My dogs are at present choosing from a home-prepared minced offal and rice menu. Their ordure will no doubt imminently change colour from 'pigs' tails and rib ends' white to 'liver, lungs and sundry unidentifiable but essentially delicious bits' brown.

I shall report back.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

OK I emailed the Pedigree pet food people [edit: Chappie is one of their brands] about this (both their vets and their brand people) - I was waiting for their lawyers to serve me with a restraining order (or ordure?) but I got this reply instead:

Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding the reduction in incidences of white dog faeces.

White dog faeces is generally seen as a result of feeding bones to a dog. Feeding practices have changed significantly over the last 20 years and less people are feeding their dogs bones and this therefore leads to a reduction in white faeces. However, changes in the law also mean that less dog faeces are seen in public places.

I think this is from the vet people as there was also a link to:

http://www.mypetstop.co.uk

I am slightly sceptical that it is due to the change in eating bones - I would assume that people have largely been feeding their dogs on dog food for quite a while and dogs who eat just bones (or a high proportion) were rare back then. It does link with the whiteness being caused by calcium phosphate/apatite. It still looks like some kind of dog egg drying experiments need to be done to get to the truth here.

I am also kicking myself for not using the word faeces in the email (I used the word poo which rather let the side down).

escargot:

My dogs are at present choosing from a home-prepared minced offal and rice menu. Their ordure will no doubt imminently change colour from 'pigs' tails and rib ends' white to 'liver, lungs and sundry unidentifiable but essentially delicious bits' brown.

I shall report back.

Make sure you do

Emps

 

[escargot]

Nothing has happened on the faecal front so far today.

Well, the dogs haven't performed anyway. BF's cat has crapped himself inside out all over the kitchen as usual.

The dogs have minced offal for the weekend and pigs' tail boiling away merrily on the stove for in the week.

I don't think a dog needs to eat bones exclusively to produce the longed-for albino ordure- the white'uns are seen no more because dogs generally don't get ANY bones. I think just a proportion of Organic Calcium In Bovine Femur Form will do the trick.

(What a pleasant spectacle is conjured up here of my happy home. Cat crap in the kitchen, pigs' tail boiling, and me outside hunting for turds with a Dulux colour chart. )

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

escargot:

I don't think a dog needs to eat bones exclusively to produce the longed-for albino ordure- the white'uns are seen no more because dogs generally don't get ANY bones. I think just a proportion of Organic Calcium In Bovine Femur Form will do the trick.

I'm still not convinced that the pallid poop is purely explained by the eating of bones, etc. and that there must be other components to a pale plop - I noticed things like ash listed on a tin of Butchers tripe. However, it looks increasingly like I might have to get experimental with this. Unfortunately it is a bit damp here at the moment but if there is better weather I'll see what I can rummage together (in the meantime if someone wants to put dog-food fed dog doings in their oven on a low heat, 30-40 degress celcius should suffice, then should feel free to do so - drying might not just be the only factor as bacteria and a touch of rain might also help but it would be a start).

What a pleasant spectacle is conjured up here of my happy home. Cat crap in the kitchen, pigs' tail boiling, and me outside hunting for turds with a Dulux colour chart.

Well I wasn't going to say anything but......

Emps

 

[Beakmoo]

If it happens to dog and cat poo, would it work with human? We need a volunteer to crap in the garden.

 

[escargot]

My dogs don't get fed any ash.

They eat either boiled offal with rice or boiled pigs' tails- and their poos are white when they've eaten tails (bones present) and brown after offal (no bones at all).

The larger dog's poos are especially white, dessicated-looking and crumbly, resembling crushed chalk. I assume this is because he can consume more actual bone than can the smaller dog.

can I have my pizza now please?

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

BSE

My dogs don't get fed any ash.

But mine are and I was wondering if there was possibly a range of pale substances that got excreted or pos. insoluble things that got bleached in the stomach?

-------
Anyway a further thought occurs to me that around this period we also had the BSE problems in this country and a quick nose around reveals this request for clarification about the use of old beef bones for dogs:

http://www.parliament.the-stationer...srd/vo980309/text/80309w03.htm#80309w03_sbhd2

As this was 1998 there has clearly been quite a bit of confusion on this issue although things appear quite clear in the legislation - the Animal By-Products Order (1992):

Restriction on disposal of animal by-products referred to in Part II of Schedule 1
6.--(1) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (2) below any person who has in his possession or under this control any animal by-product referred to in Part II of Schedule 1 shall dispose of it by one of the following methods, namely:
(a) by rendering in approved premises;
(b) by incineration;
(c) by burial.

(2) The provisions of paragraph (1) shall not apply to:
(a) the use of any such by-product for scientific purposes;
(b) the distribution of any such by-product to or use of any such by-product at a knacker's yard or at premises used for feeding zoo, circus or fur animals, recognized packs of hounds or for feeding to maggots farmed for fishing bait;
(c) the collection or use of any such by-product for the preparation of petfood or of technical or pharmaceutical products in premises registered under article 9;
(d) the use, under the authority of a licence from the Minister of any such byproduct for the production of material that has not been fully rendered, subject to the final disposal of that by-product in accordance with paragraph (1) or (2)(c) above.

(3) Where the use of such by-product is in accordance with paragraph (2)(c) above the Minister may if he thinks it expedient to do so require by notice that it be despatched, stored or processed in a specific location and under specific conditions.

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19923303_en_2.htm

and it is clear from other questions in Hansard (12 Jan 1998):

http://www.parliament.the-stationer...srd/vo980112/text/80112w18.htm#80112w18_sbhd2

http://www.parliament.the-stationer...srd/vo980112/text/80112w18.htm#80112w18_sbhd3

and 13th Feb:

http://www.parliament.the-stationer...srd/vo980213/text/80213w01.htm#80213w01_sbhd0

That although you can get bones from a butcher for dogs things weren't clear.

This was clarified in the Beef Bones Regulations (1997)

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/sr/sr1997/Nisr_19970540_en_2.htm#mdiv8

And this question was asked:

Lord Stanley of Alderley asked Her Majesty's Government:


Whether any offence has been committed under the Beef Bones Regulations, if banned beef bones supplied by a butcher for dog consumption are subsequently used for human consumption; and, if so, by whom is the offence committed.


The Parliamentary Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Donoughue): My Lords, yes. If the food prepared using the bones was sold or supplied in the course of a business, an offence would have been committed by the supplier of the food to the ultimate customer.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199798/ldhansrd/vo980507/text/80507-01.htm

Even when the law was clarified I would imagine that most butchers would dispose of the bones otherwise they'd have had to keep notes on what they did with each one and pos. face investigation.

That said I have run across advice which says that butchers weren't allowed to sell bones to owners as they aren't traceable:

http://www.pinebridge.co.uk/clients/safety/1997/News & Views 5 12 97.txt

8. Will butchers be allowed to give/sell me bones for my dog?
A. No.
9. But surely dogs don't get BSE?
A. There have been no recorded cases of BSE in dogs, but once they are sold you can't tell if bones will end up with the dog or in the soup.

I don't think this would have stopped the supply of beef bones to the dog food industry but BSE might have interfered with the individual getting their hands on bones.

Anyone have any experience of difficulties getting bones during this period?

Emps

 

[escargot]

No probs getting bones- mine have pork & mutton ones. These are usually soft and, for Big Lad at least, easily crunched up.

 

[Anonymous]

We need a volunteer to crap in the garden.

:hello:

 

[escargot]

Buttock, you need to go into training right away.

Report to your local butcher for supplies.

1 kilo pigs' tails
1 kilo assorted pig and sheep body parts, minced
Various beef bones

You will also need a large pan with lid, a family with a strong stomach and a sign saying ' Don't eat meat in big pan- look in fridge for pizza'.

Await further instructions.

 

[Anonymous]

white poo

I saw one in the local park on Sunday, if that is of any help.

:cross eye

What exactly speaks against the theory that they are dired out and bleached (what I always thought)?

FYI - it has been sunny and very dry here lately.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

noworries:

I saw one in the local park on Sunday, if that is of any help.

It is although you should have taken pictures and pos. dissected it. We should start something like a CackWatch too keep an eye open for this endagered by not extinct species.

What exactly speaks against the theory that they are dired out and bleached (what I always thought)?

Nothing really - it seems likely that the brown colour would be more likely to dissolve away to leave the more stable core of the jobbie. I think the main stumbling block is The Whitening. No one has really reported actual observation of a turd which turned white (they are pretty unremarkable until they turn white then you can never be sure of they were white to begin with) or if all dog jobs will turn white, etc.

Hence the need for some kind of observation/experimentation:


Captain Buttock: You'll need to eat dog food for a week or two to get your system running on pure dog food before you start laying experimental eggs.

Is there anything drastically different between the canine and human digestive tract? It appears hyenas also make white shite (obviously they have a much higher bone content in their diet than dogs) and they have a highly acidic stomach which actually dissolves bones (they regurgitate the large bits with holes burnt through them) and this might tend to bleach things internally?

Emps

 

[escargot]

Buttock's training needs to be more intense if we are to discover the truth about dog poo.

How do we know it's the dog's diet which determines the colour? It might be one of several aspects of the animal's behaviour.

Buttock needs to learn Backside Sniffing, Cowpat-Rolling and Own Scrotum And Anus Licking before he starts on the special diet.

You can't be too sure.:no-no:

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

escargot: Hmmmmmmm all good points. In fact we would have to make sure that we cover all combinations and permutations so Captain Buttock might have to do things like spend a week just licking his balls (although, technically if he has been doing any of that anyway then we can cross that off the list).

I'd suggest the following ( a fortnight each):

Eating dog food
Eating dog food and dry humping people's legs
Eating dog food and licking his balls
Eating dog food and sniffing other people's (or dog's?) backsides.

Damn this could take qute a while - esp. as we'd have to do all the permutations without him eating dog food.

I think we might need government funding

Emps

 

[escargot]

Emp, you missed out some key operations.

Cowpat-rolling and general enjoyment of excrement- whether sniffed, circled appreciatively or pee'd next to- are important components of Buttock's ongoing education.

Dry-humping is good. I'd be tempted to extend dry-humping's remit to include all kinds of affectionate attacks on other animals of both sexes, furniture and paving stones in the backyard when the weather's really HOT, dammit.

Drinking from foetid ponds and lavatory bowls is essential.

Chewing, while generally considered an activity mostly confined to puppies, is actually an art form in itself. Car seat belts and expensive underwear and handbags are chewed by more thoughtful dogs- slippers, newspapers and odd socks can be regarded as practice exercises.

 

[Melf]

and dont forget the all important trip to the vets for neutering

bwhahahahahaha!!!!!

 

[Beakmoo]

Captain Buttock might have to do things like spend a week just licking his balls (although, technically if he has been doing any of that anyway then we can cross that off the list).

If he could do that already he wouldn't be spending time on this board.

 

[Anonymous]

Training? What on earth for? Just another day at the orifice. The ball thing is tricky though, believe me I've tried. Pretty much every day. Any volunteers to help out?

I say, escargot, that leg of yours appears to be winking at me... :wow:

I think we might need government funding

There's money in it? Cor, I could soon be amongst the effluent!

 

[Beakmoo]

When did I say you were tasteless and unnecessary? I can't even spell unecessary. Don't put words into my beak!

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

escargot: Good categories.

I would extend your cow pat rolling to cover enjoyment of all things fetid. I am only 10 minutes walk from the beach and the dogs go wild for a dead seagull and the day the dead seal washed up was like doggie Xmas. This is clearly separate from drinking from toilets as it is the water they are after and not the dirty pleasure (probably - its why I drink from the toilet so.....).

I would also like to add the following:

1. The stealth cold wet nose - bad when shoved in an ear while one is dozing on the couch or even worse when sneaked inside a gaping dressing gown after a midnight trip to the lav.

2. Carrying stuff - my larger dog is a mongrel - part sheep dog part labrador and the sheepdog/gundog combines nicely to make him carry stuff around without wanting to actually let you have it. Newspapers, wallets, etc. have all disappeared down the garden (where he just gets bored with stuff). The little dog is a terrier but has a penchant for carrying a sock around which doesn't combine well with socks' already legendary mystical disappearing behaviour.

Captain Buttock: Its nice to see such an enthusiastic subject.

On the ball business I believe a bit of yoga might help get you flexible enough - if that doesn't work loop your belt around the back of your neck (or so I've been told).

Emps

 

[escargot]

We haven't yet mention dogfarting.

PLEASE- don't go there.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

escargot: You said:

We haven't yet mention dogfarting.

Ah of course - esp. the ones where the dog looks back at their 'tail' in suprise

Yep they also stink but how would we know someone else wasn't blaming Captain Buttock for their stepping on a duck?

PLEASE- don't go there.

Ooops

Emps