Who Would Populate A Sister Planet?

INT21

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#32
You need to be up at 42 thousand feet on a trans-Atlantic flight to receive the full benefit of cosmic rays.
 

INT21

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#33
If we can't settle Mars, at least as a temporary base, then what hope of ever going out into the rest of the galaxy ?
 

James_H

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#35
Mormons are actually quite pro space and well disposed to transhumanism. Which subject raises its head because as many point out, it's harder to modify a hostile environment to fit humanity than it is to modify humanity to fit a hostile environment.
 

INT21

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#36
James_H

I think the evidence points in exactly to opposite direction.

We can't get humans to modify they current behaviour even when the consequences of not doing so are staring us in the face.

INT21.
 

Ogdred Weary

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#37
We already are well screwed if you look at the big picture.

Maybe this analogy will help.

You live in a town that is rapidly going down hill. No work, rising crime, shops closing down etc.

So you decide to move out to place and make a new start. Say Idaho. Lots of space even if the locals may have a reputation for being a bit gun happy.

You buy some land.

But there is no point in going there if you don't have a house built and the utilities installed.

So you go out on weekend trips. Build a shack, Set up a few solar panels.

Arrange to collect water from the nearest town or farm.

Then, when you have your base set up, you move out and complete the job in between doing whatever you need to do to make a living.

Same with Mars.

INT21.
It's a little bit harder to get to Mars than it is to get to Idaho. We haven't been to the Moon, since the 70s. I don't think a manned flight will ever land there, we will be too busy fighting fighting one another over resources on Earth. I suspect that flights of that length are also difficult enough to prohibit them even if we were a more cooperative and rational species anyway.
 

James_H

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#38
James_H

I think the evidence points in exactly to opposite direction.

We can't get humans to modify they current behaviour even when the consequences of not doing so are staring us in the face.

INT21.
I'm talking about modifying their biology, not their behaviour.
 

INT21

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#39
That would appear to mean modifying the biology of, eventually, millions of people. And it could take many generations.
 

INT21

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#41
If you consider the problems that seem to get in the way when genetically engineering a corn crop to make it disease resistant it makes one wonder if genetically engineering humans would ever be accepted.

Cyborgs ?: maybe.

INT21.
 

James_H

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#42
That would appear to mean modifying the biology of, eventually, millions of people. And it could take many generations.
Yes. How long would it take to install a breathable atmosphere on Mars?
 

EnolaGaia

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#46
... How long would it take to install a breathable atmosphere on Mars?
It wouldn't be all that implausible to claim "forever."

Mars has been continuously losing its atmosphere to space owing to its lower gravity and ablation by the solar wind (in turn owing to Mars' lack of a strong and protective planetary magnetic field).

The current Martian atmosphere is circa 95% CO2, and the atmospheric pressure / thickness is less than 1% of the earth's.

There's not enough to work with, it's currently the wrong gas for breathing, and whatever better mixture can be generated is only going to drift off into space.
 

INT21

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#47
Which would appear to beg the question

Why all the fuss to go there ?
 

blessmycottonsocks

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#48
It wouldn't be all that implausible to claim "forever."

Mars has been continuously losing its atmosphere to space owing to its lower gravity and ablation by the solar wind (in turn owing to Mars' lack of a strong and protective planetary magnetic field).

The current Martian atmosphere is circa 95% CO2, and the atmospheric pressure / thickness is less than 1% of the earth's.

There's not enough to work with, it's currently the wrong gas for breathing, and whatever better mixture can be generated is only going to drift off into space.
But Titan has an atmosphere whilst being smaller than Mars.
That would suggest that Mars has the potential at least to retain a thicker atmosphere.
The lowest-lying areas, like Valles Marineris and the Hellas crater, have significant air pressure and could conceivably have liquid water. Directed mirrors in orbit could warm such areas as a pre-cursor to terraforming.
 

EnolaGaia

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#49
But Titan has an atmosphere whilst being smaller than Mars.
That would suggest that Mars has the potential at least to retain a thicker atmosphere.
The lowest-lying areas, like Valles Marineris and the Hellas crater, have significant air pressure and could conceivably have liquid water. Directed mirrors in orbit could warm such areas as a pre-cursor to terraforming.
Titan's a lot farther from the sun and partially shielded from solar wind ablation by Saturn's magnetic field. Its atmosphere is relatively dense, being comprised of heavier compounds stacked in a set of distinct layers among which chemical interchanges occur.

Even if Mars were capable of retaining a thicker atmosphere, that atmosphere would have to be established or replenished with gases from somewhere.

Hellas Planitia is indeed deep enough (and the CO2-laden atmosphere dense enough) to yield a higher air pressare at it bottom - an estimated 12.4 bar. This is double the 'regular' Martian pressure on the surface. But ... This is still only on the order of 2% of earth-normal air pressure.
 

blessmycottonsocks

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#50
So the highest air pressure on Mars is still only around a third of that at the summit of Everest.
Still has some potential I would have thought and gives scientists something to work on though.

Incidentally I was just perusing today's El Reg and see there's an article speculating that humans could live in the Martian polar regions within enclosures of silica aerogel:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/07/16/aerogel_mars_shelters/
 

EnolaGaia

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#54

INT21

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#60
Just looking through this thread, I wondered why it looks rather sterile, considering the apparently innocuous title.

Then I realised it is because the process of selection can't be discussed here.

'Should have realised that earlier.

INT21.
 
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