Who Ya Gonna Call? Ghost Hunters & Hunting

packshaud

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anything... odd? And I'm not interested in orbs!

I'm a believer in the idea that the more you get into this stuff the more the stuff happens in your vicinity. A sort of selective perception plus.
What happens is that you start to notice things related to the subject, because you know about it. A lot of what we experience every day is filtered out. It is like skipping unknown words while reading a book.

And to the extent that whatever you are interested on can react, your interest will be noticed. This actually is a huge problem. We will never know to what extent John Keel actually believed in all of what he said, but I believe he had real issues with the infamous men in black. A more scholarly example is Gustav Davidson, a poet. He wrote a book called A Dictionary of Angels, Including the Fallen Angels (originally in 1967), collecting information on the subject. Here is a long excerpt from the introduction (in my copy, at pages xi to xii, typed by hand, errors might abound), with his comments on the information gathering for the book:

Gustav Davidson said:
All of these goetic tracts yielded a boundless profusion of angels (and demons), and I soon had more of the fluttering creatures than I knew what to do with. In order to keep my work within more sizable limits, I started weeding out (Heaven forgive me!) what I considered to be the less important names, or the ones about which little or no data could be found.

At this stage of the quest I was literally bedeviled by angels. They stalked and leaguered me, by night and day. I could not tell the evil from the good, demons from daevas, satans from seraphim; nor (to quote a poem composed at the time) "if that world I could not hope to prove,/Flaming with heavenly beasts, holy and grim,/Was any less real than that in which I moved." I moved, indeed, in a twilight zone of tall presences, through enchanted forests lit with the sinister splendor of fallen divinities; of aeons and archons, peris and paracletes, elohim and avatars. I felt somewhat like Dante, in the opening canto of The Divine Comedy, when, midway upon the journey of his life, he found himself astray in a dusky wood. Or like some knight of old, ready to try conclusions with any adversary, real or fancied. I remember one occasion--it was winter and getting dark--returning home from a neighboring farm. I had cut across an unfamiliar field. Suddenly a nightmarish shape loomed up in front of me, barring my progress. After a paralyzing moment I managed to fight my way past the phantom. The next morning I could not be sure (not more than Jacob was, when he wrestled with his dark antagonist at Peniel) whether I had encountered a ghost, an angel, a demon, or God. There were other such moments and other such encounters, when I passed from terror to trance, from intimations of realms unguessed at to the uneasy conviction that, beyond the reach of our senses, beyond the arch of all our experience sacred and profane, there was only--to use an expression of Paul's in I Timothy 4--"fable and endless genealogy."

Logic, I felt, was my only safe anchor in reality; but if, as Walter Nigg points out, "angels are powers which transcend the logic of our existence," did it follow that one is constrained to abandon logic in order to entertain angels?⁴ For the sake of angels I was ready to subscribe to Coleridge's "willing suspension of disbelief." I was even ready to drink his "milk of Paradise." But I was troubled. Never a respecter of authority, per se, particularly when it was backed by the "salvific light of revelation," I nevertheless kept repeating to myself that I was pitting my personal and necessarily circumscribed experience, logic, and belief (or nonbelief) against the experience, logic, and belief of some of the boldest and profoundest minds of all times--minds that had reshaped the world's thinking and emancipated it (to a degree, at any rate) from the bondage of superstition and error. Still, I was averse to associating myself with opinions and creeds, no matter how hallowed by time or tradition, or by whomsoever held, that were plainly repugnant to common sense. A professed belief in angels would, inevitably, involve me in a belief in the supernatural, and that was the golden share I did not wish to be caught in. Without committing myself religiously I could conceive of the possibility of there being, in dimensions and worlds other than our own, powers and intelligences outside our present apprehension, and in this sense angels are not to be ruled out as a part of reality--always remembering that we create what we believe. Indeed, I am prepared to say that if enough of us believe in angels, then angels exist.

[...]

4. Walter Nigg's article "Stay you Angels, Stay with Me," Harper's Bazaar, December 1962. The phrase derives from Johann Sebastian Bach's "Cantata for Michaelmas Day."

The poem Davidson mentioned may be Ambushed by Angels & Other Poems (1965), written by himself.

All I can I say about this is that you start like Keel, writing Jadoo, and you might end like... Keel, neck deep in this stuff. I've been there, and I still will refrain from commenting on the time I was gathering books on demons and possession. That part had a happy end: the problems stopped after I concentrated in other areas (those also brought their weirdness, but of course it was not on demons level, most of the time). But possibly there is a point of no return. Forteans, beware.

For all the skeptics here, I must say that these experiences feel very real. The emotional imprint from them can't be removed saying "it didn't happen" the same way PTSD can't be cured saying "this was in the past."
 
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Frideswide

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Thank you @packshaud !

This bit

Gustav Davidson said:
Suddenly a nightmarish shape loomed up in front of me, barring my progress. After a paralyzing moment I managed to fight my way past the phantom. The next morning I could not be sure (not more than Jacob was, when he wrestled with his dark antagonist at Peniel) whether I had encountered a ghost, an angel, a demon, or God.

is just... just...
 

Swifty

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anything... odd? And I'm not interested in orbs!

I'm a believer in the idea that the more you get into this stuff the more the stuff happens in your vicinity. A sort of selective perception plus.
Nothing paranormal we spotted, no .. I can send you the wedding video if you want? ..
 

Vardoger

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no thanks, I don't need to feed my bridal dress fascination! :)
You're a bridezilla?

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Naughty_Felid

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I think you're being a bit oversensitive, chum.
That's a sort of leather "cowboy hat" or Stetson (brand name). I have one. It's based on a pattern worn by Australian stockmen among others. The other version, made from felt, is still worn by many members of the American cavalry units in a historic link to the US Cavalry in the past. One You Tuber (The Chieftain) is a serving armoured cavalry officer and did a short video on tanker's equipment (such as coveralls, boots, helmets etc.) and briefly talked about his Stetson.
The only link to the Confederate army was that officers generally wore grey felt Stetsons.

15:03 he is wearing a confederate cap.
I think you're being a bit oversensitive, chum.
That's a sort of leather "cowboy hat" or Stetson (brand name). I have one. It's based on a pattern worn by Australian stockmen among others. The other version, made from felt, is still worn by many members of the American cavalry units in a historic link to the US Cavalry in the past. One You Tuber (The Chieftain) is a serving armoured cavalry officer and did a short video on tanker's equipment (such as coveralls, boots, helmets etc.) and briefly talked about his Stetson.
The only link to the Confederate army was that officers generally wore grey felt Stetsons.

It wasn't his stetson it was his army cap. - you didn't watch it all obviously. I don't care. I was just pointing out that if you want to grow your brand on youtube then you can't wear stuff like that.
 

Stormkhan

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True, I didn't watch all the video; mea culpa. And, as we know, YT can be a bit ... sensitive when it comes to triggering. I mean, having to issue a trigger warning for videos recounting crimes ... on a channel clearly about past crimes, and on one notable occasion a You Tuber deciding to change his name because his 'true crime' video channel was instantly being demonetised because his (real) name was Rob Dyke.
That said, my local militaria shop sells civil war-style kepis in a variety of colours. :)
 

Swifty

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Our different teams are all having a childish laugh about this at the moment ... it does happen though ..

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    • **** oh it did hun. Everytime I am investigating with you now I'm gonna be like was that you or the ghost lol xxxx
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  • Swifty
    I remember letting one go the first time we all went to All Saints .. not deliberately but it was a tension breaker.
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    ****
    omg
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  • ****
    I remember investigating an estate. There was 10 of us in the room and it was dark. We couldn’t see in front of us and we all stayed quiet for 10 mins. I had a recording of my mates very loud fart. We use to send them to each other. Hers were the loudest. So I turned on my recorded fart. I shouted omg. Did anyone hear that. We all broke down laughing.
    I may do it again with you guys so he warned. Lol
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    • Swifty
      **** LOL .. I might have to start a chat somewhere I know called 'When you fart on a ghost invest' .. love it LOL .. it happens ..
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Stormkhan

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When some person takes it as serious, though?

Funny or not?
Adding to the "mess" or part of it?

Hmmmmmm.
 

Swifty

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When some person takes it as serious, though?

Funny or not?
Adding to the "mess" or part of it?

Hmmmmmm.
At all locations, we often have messing around moments. Most of the time, we don't get any activity ... we can all be being serious, focussing using a variety of pre discussed techniques that aren't only tech orientated .. so when we all stop what we're doing at a location, we've often found then that's when 'weird shit' suddenly happens. When we're not looking for it in other words ..

We've (our crew) all noticed this pattern.
 

titch

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At all locations, we often have messing around moments. Most of the time, we don't get any activity ... we can all be being serious, focussing using a variety of pre discussed techniques that aren't only tech orientated .. so when we all stop what we're doing at a location, we've often found then that's when 'weird shit' suddenly happens. When we're not looking for it in other words ..

We've (our crew) all noticed this pattern.
Some experts say a humorous, light hearted approach will get better results, and that's why lab based tests get such inconsistent results. The more you concentrate the less likely you are to have anything happening.
 

Swifty

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Some experts say a humorous, light hearted approach will get better results, and that's why lab based tests get such inconsistent results. The more you concentrate the less likely you are to have anything happening.
We'd noticed that as well. Luke Tabram from the Shadow Paranormal team is a strong advocate of the 'just sit down and shut up, listen and observe' approach.
 

Swifty

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Rathat than all of that nonsense "scientific" equipment...
It's only nonsense when it's used incorrectly so tech needs to be used as a cross reference method. We get results (or not) out of being methodical and correlate findings afterwards. We debunk and then we're left with the stuff we can't explain yet.
 

escargot

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Some experts say a humorous, light hearted approach will get better results, and that's why lab based tests get such inconsistent results. The more you concentrate the less likely you are to have anything happening.
*nods* A bit like sex then.
 

Coastaljames

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It's only nonsense when it's used incorrectly so tech needs to be used as a cross reference method.

What tech we talking about mate? The stuff I've seen is all hokey pseudo-scientific nonsense.

EMF meters...who has proven any connection between EMF meters and what are percieved as ghosts?

Ghost boxes...who has prove that, in any way, ghosts can "use" these?

Footstep sensors...who has proven that ghosts can make footsteps?
 

Swifty

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What tech we talking about mate? The stuff I've seen is all hokey pseudo-scientific nonsense.

EMF meters...who has proven any connection between EMF meters and what are percieved as ghosts?

Ghost boxes...who has prove that, in any way, ghosts can "use" these?

Footstep sensors...who has proven that ghosts can make footsteps?
I've go to work in a sec but I'll do my best to explain it to you later.
 

gattino

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Because - spoiler - nothing really happened, I can't justify starting a new thread, so will add to this one instead. Last night, Hallowe'en, I went with two friends to one of the regularly organised ghost hunts at Newsham Park abandoned hospital/orphanage/"asylum" (the last term in quotations as i understand it's theatrical exaggeration to call it that with its horror movie appeal) here in Liverpool.

I won't go into huge detail and just summarise the main observations.
The negative - no ghosts were seen, heard or what other sense might be employed. As always (I suspect, based on my only previous experience attending one of these things) the tendency of random individuals in a large group to say they heard or felt some vague something was exhibited and - again i suspect - no matter when one went, one should have been there "last time" which is always when the good stuff happened.

The in between bit -some of the devices were going off/lighting up at various points. A teddy bear which apparently responds to EMF fluctuations and, above all, "cat balls" (not feline testicles, but a cat toy that lights up dramatically when touched or rolled around by the pet) was often spontaneously springing to life on the floor away from any human contact. An unfortunate footnote to undermine the impressiveness of this is found when i looked the use of the items up online when i got home...its apparently not touch per se that sets it off, but being moved and therefore - being very light - vibrations in the floor or breezes can't be ruled out as the cause.
A large group of us standing around and placing our fingertips on a metal gurney in a hallway resulted with group verbal encouragement in the gurney seeming to spontaneously start to move. Low light made it clear there was no obvious culprit pushing it. One could theorise that multiple people exerting a tiny amount of pressure each, even unconsciously, might be equivalent to one person applying a significant amount of pressure. Who knows.
Whatever was causing these occasional effects though seemed to me to not be evidence of a purported invisible entity since, to my recollection, on every occasion that "they" were asked to repeat a half heard sound they didn't do so.

The positive - It was an absolutely creepy building and made for the part. Arriving on foot in the rain under the streetlamps and glancing up at the monstrous gothic building looming against the dark sky, I felt for al the world like the Exorcist, come to battle evil. To mix my movie metaphors, all the other attendees, silently sitting in their cars outside with their headlamps on waiting for the gates to open added notions of Rosemary's Baby - a devilish cult ominously watching the newcomer.
It was actual a very enjoyable unusual experience you're likely to remember, standing around in a circle in the pitch black with strangers, calling out to the spirits of the dead. Though i saw no evidence of spooks, i'd still recommend it as an unusual night out.

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brownmane

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Because - spoiler - nothing really happened, I can't justify starting a new thread, so will add to this one instead. Last night, Hallowe'en, I went with two friends to one of the regularly organised ghost hunts at Newsham Park abandoned hospital/orphanage/"asylum" (the last term in quotations as i understand it's theatrical exaggeration to call it that with its horror movie appeal) here in Liverpool.

I won't go into huge detail and just summarise the main observations.
The negative - no ghosts were seen, heard or what other sense might be employed. As always (I suspect, based on my only previous experience attending one of these things) the tendency of random individuals in a large group to say they heard or felt some vague something was exhibited and - again i suspect - no matter when one went, one should have been there "last time" which is always when the good stuff happened.

The in between bit -some of the devices were going off/lighting up at various points. A teddy bear which apparently responds to EMF fluctuations and, above all, "cat balls" (not feline testicles, but a cat toy that lights up dramatically when touched or rolled around by the pet) was often spontaneously springing to life on the floor away from any human contact. An unfortunate footnote to undermine the impressiveness of this is found when i looked the use of the items up online when i got home...its apparently not touch per se that sets it off, but being moved and therefore - being very light - vibrations in the floor or breezes can't be ruled out as the cause.
A large group of us standing around and placing our fingertips on a metal gurney in a hallway resulted with group verbal encouragement in the gurney seeming to spontaneously start to move. Low light made it clear there was no obvious culprit pushing it. One could theorise that multiple people exerting a tiny amount of pressure each, even unconsciously, might be equivalent to one person applying a significant amount of pressure. Who knows.
Whatever was causing these occasional effects though seemed to me to not be evidence of a purported invisible entity since, to my recollection, on every occasion that "they" were asked to repeat a half heard sound they didn't do so.

The positive - It was an absolutely creepy building and made for the part. Arriving on foot in the rain under the streetlamps and glancing up at the monstrous gothic building looming against the dark sky, I felt for al the world like the Exorcist, come to battle evil. To mix my movie metaphors, all the other attendees, silently sitting in their cars outside with their headlamps on waiting for the gates to open added notions of Rosemary's Baby - a devilish cult ominously watching the newcomer.
It was actual a very enjoyable unusual experience you're likely to remember, standing around in a circle in the pitch black with strangers, calling out to the spirits of the dead. Though i saw no evidence of spooks, i'd still recommend it as an unusual night out.

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Sounds like fun. We don't have many "haunted" places near where I live, but sometimes I enjoy the haunted tours cuz you get to see buildings and architecture that you normally wouldn't have regular access to.
 

IbisNibs

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What a lovely segue! Gattino's remarks reminded me of ouija boards:
A large group of us standing around and placing our fingertips on a metal gurney in a hallway resulted with group verbal encouragement in the gurney seeming to spontaneously start to move. Low light made it clear there was no obvious culprit pushing it. One could theorise that multiple people exerting a tiny amount of pressure each, even unconsciously, might be equivalent to one person applying a significant amount of pressure.
 

escargot

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Rhik Samadder, one of my favourite Guardian columnists, goes a-ghost-hunting.

He basically gets to do different 'odd' things most weeks. He takes this pretty seriously, at least at first...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...ost-hunting-faint-children-smocks-ouija-board

“You might be meeting a departed spirit, loved by someone in the room,” he says gravely. “If you ask them if they’re OK, and they say no – what are you going to do with that?”

In John Fuller's The Ghost of Flight 401, he describes playing a Ouija board with others at a writers's retreat and appearing to contact the late poet Elinor Wylie (1885–1928).
When asked what 'Wylie' wants, the reply is HELP ME GET RID OF MY PAST.
Brrr.
 

cycleboy2

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In John Fuller's The Ghost of Flight 401, he describes playing a Ouija board with others at a writers's retreat and appearing to contact the late poet Elinor Wylie (1885–1928).
When asked what 'Wylie' wants, the reply is HELP ME GET RID OF MY PAST.
Brrr.
In my first year at university, 1981, I went to a couple of seances. Away from home for the first time, open to new experiences etc.

I found them quite disturbing and in one we had the prediction of a murder in Wimbledon. This was 11 years before the murder of Rachel Nickell; I'm glad it wasn't within a day or two of the seance...
 

Swifty

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Ghost-Hunting in the Lab: Reanimating the Laboratory of Psychical Research​


'Lab coats, test tubes, and an array of musical instruments are not the typical objects one expects to find when confronting the history of ghost hunting. But Aleksander Kolkowski, kitt price, and Laurence Cliffe carefully curated their paraphernalia of the paranormal to animate the ‘Laboratory of Psychical Research’: an auricular reimagining of the historic National Laboratory of Psychical Research (1925 ̶ 1930) founded by renowned paranormal investigator, Harry Price.'

https://mediaofmediumship.stir.ac.u...lnRGcHBRL52UHzmPjL0DPmd0z1L6MmZwNa8yYsRnBbWB8
 

IbisNibs

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In my first year at university, 1981, I went to a couple of seances. Away from home for the first time, open to new experiences etc.

I found them quite disturbing and in one we had the prediction of a murder in Wimbledon. This was 11 years before the murder of Rachel Nickell; I'm glad it wasn't within a day or two of the seance...
Was your university anywhere near Wimbledon, or was anyone participating from near there?
Just wondering if there were unconscious associations that could account for Wimbledon being named.
 

Sharon Hill

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Ghost-Hunting in the Lab: Reanimating the Laboratory of Psychical Research​


'Lab coats, test tubes, and an array of musical instruments are not the typical objects one expects to find when confronting the history of ghost hunting. But Aleksander Kolkowski, kitt price, and Laurence Cliffe carefully curated their paraphernalia of the paranormal to animate the ‘Laboratory of Psychical Research’: an auricular reimagining of the historic National Laboratory of Psychical Research (1925 ̶ 1930) founded by renowned paranormal investigator, Harry Price.'

https://mediaofmediumship.stir.ac.u...lnRGcHBRL52UHzmPjL0DPmd0z1L6MmZwNa8yYsRnBbWB8
Love that photo of Price!

But the rest of it is typical "sciencey" paraphernalia that seems meant to enhance the credibility of "ghost hunters". It is a fake ploy (in my opinion, see Scientifical Americans (Hill, 2017)) but it does work for people who have little background in science.
 

Who me

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Morning swifty are you back out ghost hunting again (covid) any new to you and colleagues places
 
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