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Why Are Pirates Romanticised?

Eyespy said:
A better question would be why are male pirates romanticized?

There were several femalle pirates, few are well known. Some of the better known are , Mary Read, Anne Bonny and Grace O'Malley. The infamous Chinese pirate Cheng Sao (? Spelling) was referred to in one of pirates of the Caribbean films.
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In fairness, if you were to ask the average person to name a handful of real pirates I'd expect Read and Bonny in particular to come up as they're probably as in the psyche of public consciousness alongside Blackbeard and Kidd. I couldn't say if that's a more modern switch over recent years with more exposure or awareness but people do seem to be fairly aware of the "two girls who dressed as men, ran off to sea and became pirates then escaping the law by revealing themselves and "pleading on their belly" for an added bit of flair. There would have been loads of pirates who never really achieved fame or notoriety but it says a lot, partly in some sort due to some sort of romanticisation admittedly, that people would be able to name - or at least have a vague awareness of the story - of a couple of female pirates.

As for why they (in general) are romanticised, I remember watching a documentary once (I think Tim Curry was involved in some way) and that said that when you're a professional pirate, you don't have to wear a suit. Would definitely prefer that to the drudgery of regular office work!
 
lanky316 said:
In fairness, if you were to ask the average person to name a handful of real pirates I'd expect Read and Bonny in particular to come up as they're probably as in the psyche of public consciousness alongside Blackbeard and Kidd.
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You do the average person too much credit. I suspect all most people could come up with would be 'Captain Jack Sparrow'.
 
Not forgetting;
pirate radio.jpg
 
Those were the days ... before they sold out to The Man.
(Strange But True: while I was at boarding school, we set up a pirate radio station. I was one of those tasked to set up the antenna - 25 m of coated wire. We only ever broadcast on Sunday; the reasoning being that the Home Office would need a warrant to raid/investigate and in our small town, the magistrate that had to issue a warrant would be out on a golf course. The delay would give us enough time to cease broadcasting and, therefore, have no evidence to allow the warrant to be served. Every feckin' Sunday! :) )
 
Stormkhan said:
Those were the days ... before they sold out to The Man.
(Strange But True: while I was at boarding school, we set up a pirate radio station...
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Okay, I’m feeling you need a manager bruv. Just jack some hectic tips from the banginest pirate radio station of the modern era. Watch, absorb and recycle. I’m thinking we call your crew Tukkshop FM and change the track to Original Headboyz (but you can keep Stormkhan…that tag is so beast bro).

No rush fam, you’ve got all night to learn how to spit like this – I’ve got us a gig in a car park in Barnsley tomorrow:

 
Do you think pirates got their ideas from the tales of Robin Hood ?

Robin Hood stories go way back some say to 1160.
 
Well, I'd imagine that most captains and crews saw how much they were capturing from rival nations during war and instead of handing over prizes to the government, decided to go into free enterprise.
 
I wonder if there were 'tin pirates' back in the Bronze age? They've found evidence that tin from Cornwall was taken by boat over to Europe and exchanged for posh ceramicware and food stuffs; do you think there would have been smaller boats lying in wait to capture the goods?
 
Stormkhan said:
Ancient Rome had pirates, even the Ancient Egyptians.
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They weren't romanticised though and some seemed to require the sort of campaign normally reserved to conquer a city state to get rid of them. Mind you we probably only have "official" sources to go on rather than the views of most of the population.

Funny that Robin Hood gets all the stories but Hereward the Wake doesn't get much publicity now.

And, off topic again, but I have to ask if anyone knows what Hereward the Wake has in common with Winnie the Pooh?

Same middle name
 
Tunn11 said:
They weren't romanticised though and some seemed to require the sort of campaign normally reserved to conquer a city state to get rid of them. Mind you we probably only have "official" sources to go on rather than the views of most of the population.

Funny that Robin Hood gets all the stories but Hereward the Wake doesn't get much publicity now.

And, off topic again, but I have to ask if anyone knows what Hereward the Wake has in common with Winnie the Pooh?

Same middle name
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Maybe it's easier to romanticise pirates who steal gold and treasure and can therefore go ashore and spend their booty on stuff, spreading their fortune around in port. If your piracy results in some really nice ceramicware and fish sauce, it's not really going to make as much of an impact on the local population is it? "Oooh, Redbeardica, lovely beakers you've got there...'
 
Better still ...
"Y'know, Captain Kiddibus, you are right; it is and excellent example of Carreran marble. However, I seem to recall buying exactly the same sort only the other month, only to have it stolen by pirates ..."
"Yeah, well there's a lot of that about this season, praetor!"
 
Stormkhan said:
Better still ...
"Y'know, Captain Kiddibus, you are right; it is and excellent example of Carreran marble. However, I seem to recall buying exactly the same sort only the other month, only to have it stolen by pirates ..."
"Yeah, well there's a lot of that about this season, praetor!"
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Captain Kiddibus:
kiddibus.png
 
Some ancient pirates went in for kidnapping "toffs" for the ransome money though. Julius Caesar was kidnapped by pirates and escaped, which was not done as the Republic had decreed that if you were kidnapped you were dead.

Whether that was a popular move or not I don't know, nor whether they spent any ill gotten gains in the local taverns etc. I suspect knowing the Romans they would have slaughtered anyone associated with the pirates in any way.
 
Tunn11 said:
Some ancient pirates went in for kidnapping "toffs" for the ransome money though. Julius Caesar was kidnapped by pirates and escaped, which was not done as the Republic had decreed that if you were kidnapped you were dead.

Whether that was a popular move or not I don't know, nor whether they spent any ill gotten gains in the local taverns etc. I suspect knowing the Romans they would have slaughtered anyone associated with the pirates in any way.
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I thought the story with Julius Caesar and pirates was that his captors were going to ask for 20 talents of silver to release him, and he said ask for 50 talents as my family is very rich.It doesn't matter anyway as I'll get all the money back afterwards when I hunt you all down and crucify you. The pirates laughed at this big talk from a gangly teenager and released him when his family paid the ransom. Caesar then hired a ship and did indeed hunt them all down and kill them.
 
catseye said:
I wonder if there were 'tin pirates' back in the Bronze age? They've found evidence that tin from Cornwall was taken by boat over to Europe and exchanged for posh ceramicware and food stuffs; do you think there would have been smaller boats lying in wait to capture the goods?
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I suspect seaborne piracy has been around as long as seafaring. Longer even than seaborne trade. Since, maybe, the first fisherman who realised that it might be easier to steal someone else's haul than to catch your own.
 
asparagus said:
I thought the story with Julius Caesar and pirates was that his captors were going to ask for 20 talents of silver to release him, and he said ask for 50 talents as my family is very rich.It doesn't matter anyway as I'll get all the money back afterwards when I hunt you all down and crucify you. The pirates laughed at this big talk from a gangly teenager and released him when his family paid the ransom. Caesar then hired a ship and did indeed hunt them all down and kill them.
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I'm not sure where I found the reference to kidnap victims being considered dead, and I can't now find any reference on a quick on line search. I'll have a trawl through any obvious books later. Anyone else remember this or am I losing my marbles? (Again)

The trouble with stories about Julius Caesar is that he was a great self promoter and I'm not sure I believe much of what he said or was said about him. After all he had two goes at conquering Britain and failed both times.* Claudius achieved it first go.

Again can't remember where but one military historian though that the account of the Gallic wars made more sense if you swapped the numbers of Gauls and Romans that Caesar cited.

* No, no, never meant to conquer them. Just a punitive expedition or two. Nothing to see here.
 
Modern Pirates in English territorial waters tend to get a visit from the Shakies (SBS - Special Boat Service) who....er.....do not fuck about.
As was evidenced when the tanker 'Nave Andromeda' was boarded by 'hostiles' and ended up becalmed near the Isle of Wight in 2020.
 
Spookdaddy said:
...(David Cordingly’s books are pretty decent. Peter Lamborn Wilson’s, Pirate Utopia is a great read - although the author was an anarchist, so may have had something of an agenda. Peter Linebaugh’s, The Many-Headed Hydra: The Hidden History of the Revolutionary Atlantic is much more rigorous, but no less interesting for that.)
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Two other books that are worth a look:

The Great Sea, by David Abulafia. It's actually, 'a human history of the Mediterranean', but I've just counted at least 35 separate references to pirates in the index.

Also - and more directly relevant - Ian Urbina's awesome book, Outlaw Ocean. Described as 'an outstanding investigation of a global criminal culture on the high seas.'

It's about the current state of crime on the oceans, not the so-called golden era of piracy. Modern piracy definitely has no romance associated with it. As the blurb says ' too big to police, and under no clear international authority. What could possibly go wrong?

(And I've just realised that I never quite finished the latter - so that's this afternoon sorted.)
 
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