Why Haven't Aliens Contacted Us Yet? (Fermi Paradox)

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
1,601
Likes
2,182
Points
154
No, we get closer to cracking it every year. We have already been to the Moon, and Mars is coming up soon. I suspect we have out physics difficulty dialed up in this simulation, but we are making good progress. We just need to keep at it.
I have no certain answer for what people have been experiencing and seeing for some time now but somehow it doesn't seem like true space faring aliens to me.
I suspect that many UFOs are actually ball lightning.
 

eburacum

Papo-furado
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
3,221
Likes
1,167
Points
169
Full text of this paper can be found here.
https://arxiv.org/abs/1902.04450

Like many other articles on this subject, the exploration and colonisation of the galaxy is treated as if it were simply a matter of expansion into empty space. New colonies are created without any forward planning or strategy on the part of the colonisers. I think this is unlikely; every expansive civilisation worth considering would survey and explore the galaxy first, in great detail, using telescopic methods and remote probes.

This would reduce the chance that planets which have 'conditions amenable to settlement by the space-faring civilization' would go unnoticed or uncolonised to near-zero. Information about suitable targets for colonisation could be shared between the worlds of such a civilisation, and make it very unlikely indeed that the best real-estate would go unconquered.
 
Last edited:

INT21

Antediluvian
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
5,474
Likes
3,957
Points
229
The "period of time" bit is particularly relevant to the latest news items I posted above. One of the new assumptions (or relaxation of assumption) involved in this recent study was considering that a sufficiently advanced civilization might be stable enough to wait literally ages (as in millions of years) so as to allow interstellar movements to reduce the distances they'd need to travel. All the stars and star systems are moving relative to each other - some at higher speeds than our own Sol.
You do know that it appears all the galaxies are moving away from each other at an increasing velocity ?

So your ET will have even further to travel, not less.

INT21.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
12,468
Likes
14,049
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
You do know that it appears all the galaxies are moving away from each other at an increasing velocity ? So your ET will have even further to travel, not less.
Of course, but ... I don't think anyone's seriously contemplating intergalactic travel just yet ...
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
3,101
Likes
4,439
Points
154
Location
Wessex and Mercia
Sure. Why not? If you were part of a galactic civilization, gently nudging people out of parochial savagery and a scarcity driven economy is just neighborly, but then, I am a better neighbor than most, I suppose.
Agreed. If, as seems likely, life sufficiently advanced to be space-faring, is vanishingly rare in the universe, I could not imagine an alien race turning down the rare opportunity to introduce a neighbour into the exclusive galactic milieu club.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
12,468
Likes
14,049
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
Sure. Why not? If you were part of a galactic civilization, gently nudging people out of parochial savagery and a scarcity driven economy is just neighborly ...
Agreed. If, as seems likely, life sufficiently advanced to be space-faring, is vanishingly rare in the universe, I could not imagine an alien race turning down the rare opportunity to introduce a neighbour into the exclusive galactic milieu club.
Sorry, but ... I can't help but see this as yet another projection of our human predilections onto a presumably alien species. It smacks of the same paternalistic expansionist / colonialist attitude we in the more developed world have been frantically glossing and burnishing for a century for the sake of retrospective justification.

The phrase "little green folks' burden" comes to mind ...
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
35,786
Likes
21,851
Points
309
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
Sure. Why not? If you were part of a galactic civilization, gently nudging people out of parochial savagery and a scarcity driven economy is just neighborly, but then, I am a better neighbor than most, I suppose.
The aliens may be completely cold-hearted and not have feelings such as altruism. They might be Ferengi.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
3,221
Likes
1,167
Points
169
One of the new assumptions (or relaxation of assumption) involved in this recent study was considering that a sufficiently advanced civilization might be stable enough to wait literally ages (as in millions of years) so as to allow interstellar movements to reduce the distances they'd need to travel. All the stars and star systems are moving relative to each other - some at higher speeds than our own Sol.
This isn't a particularly useful phenomenon when considering the distance between stars in the local stellar environment. Although proper motion will bring a few stars closer to our Sun over the next few thousand years, it will take others further away - and the average distance between stars remains the same over time. So at best it could help us colonise half-a-dozen stars at most.

But proper motion on a very long timescale would have a different, and very significant effect. The Galaxy gets mixed-up over time, like someone stirring cream into coffee. If we imagine our galaxy split up into three galactic empires, with clearly-defined borders and equal amounts of territory, the effect of proper motion would be to blur the borders between those empires. After a hundred million years or so the borders would be so blurred as to be meaningless. Of course this only affects empires that persist for a very long time- but it would require a different attitude towards territory.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
12,468
Likes
14,049
Points
309
Location
Out of Bounds
This isn't a particularly useful phenomenon when considering the distance between stars in the local stellar environment. Although proper motion will bring a few stars closer to our Sun over the next few thousand years, it will take others further away - and the average distance between stars remains the same over time. So at best it could help us colonise half-a-dozen stars at most. ...
Right ... The study was focused on other / alien spacefaring civilizations exploiting proper motion as an explanation for why they haven't shown up here rather than any rationale for our seeking to do the same.
 
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
5,474
Likes
3,957
Points
229
Could be, of course, that they simply don't exist. At least not in the traveling from galaxy to galaxy form.

However, if there are other dimensions, and they have some nifty dimension-hoping system.......

INT21.
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
1,601
Likes
2,182
Points
154
Sorry, but ... I can't help but see this as yet another projection of our human predilections onto a presumably alien species. It smacks of the same paternalistic expansionist / colonialist attitude we in the more developed world have been frantically glossing and burnishing for a century for the sake of retrospective justification.
The phrase "little green folks' burden" comes to mind ...
Take up the Little Green Man's burden — / Send forth the best ye clone — / Go bind your bots to exile / To tag and drop them home; / To wait in heavy gravity, / On flustered girls gone wild — / Your new-probed, sullen rednecks, / Half-Sheeple and half-child.

Take up the LGM's burden — / To crash on open plains, / Vivisected by technicians — / The tale of secret things. / Alien skies ye shall not enter, / Hidden bases ye shall not tread, / They enter 51 while living, / And leave on microscope slides, quite dead.

Take up the LGM's burden — / And reap its old reward: / The blame of those ye butt probe, / The hate of those ye raygun — / The cry of hosts ye humour / (Ah, slowly!) toward the light: — / "Why brought it us to Andromeda, / It's f***ing Bingo night?"
 
Last edited:

Naughty_Felid

No longer interesting
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
6,108
Likes
6,613
Points
294
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
3,101
Likes
4,439
Points
154
Location
Wessex and Mercia
Or how about the temporal disconnect?

We believe the universe to be something like 14 billion years old.

Humankind has only been around for a trivial eye-blink of maybe a million years.
And we've only been space-faring for an utterly insignificant 50 years or so.

In the extremely unlikely event that there is another civilisation of sapient beings, as opposed to microbes or scraps of lichen, within a few light-years of us, the chances of them being technologically compatible or recognisable to us - and that means within a few decades of our level of advancement, is surely as close to zero as makes little difference?

Let's face it. Sci-fi like StarTrek (or even Alien) may be great fun, but it's never going to become reality.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
48,247
Likes
19,827
Points
284
Location
Eblana
Or how about the temporal disconnect?

We believe the universe to be something like 14 billion years old.

Humankind has only been around for a trivial eye-blink of maybe a million years.
And we've only been space-faring for an utterly insignificant 50 years or so.

In the extremely unlikely event that there is another civilisation of sentient beings, as opposed to microbes or scraps of lichen, within a few light-years of us, the chances of them being technologically compatible or recognisable to us - and that means within a few decades of our level of advancement, is surely as close to zero as makes little difference?

Let's face it. Sci-fi like StarTrek (or even Alien) may be great fun, but it's never going to become reality.
They'll turn out to be sentient cats.

kzin.jpg
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
3,101
Likes
4,439
Points
154
Location
Wessex and Mercia
They'll turn out to be sentient cats.

View attachment 20025
Most animals are sentient!
My cat is definitely sentient and even understands many words in English (Including the command "conservatory" which I just told her and she appreciates it's time to head to the back of the house and go to sleep).

Sapient, on the other hand, is debatable,
 
Top