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Why Haven't Aliens Contacted Us Yet? (Fermi Paradox)

This was it:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/humans-mi...VDAv6_qz8jqyyN6_VyB3rBDRWmmTqyBV8mP5LVyPLR0jo

There are an estimated 4.1 billion sun-like stars in our galaxy alone, we have yet to visit a single one of them, yet Brian Cox makes statements to the effect that we are alone and links it into climate change. Really, can anyone even picture 4.1 billion as a number of anything? I believe he is making a political statement i.e. we have to look after our planet, but it really hacks me off as people accept what he says without question because he’s on the telly.

https://www.technologyreview.com/20...arth-like-planets-kepler-gaia-habitable-life/
and how many galaxies? Lets not forget the possibilities of other dimensions we are talking trillions and trillions of possibilities I just refuse to believe that out of all that there is no intelligent life out there
 
This was it:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/humans-mi...VDAv6_qz8jqyyN6_VyB3rBDRWmmTqyBV8mP5LVyPLR0jo

There are an estimated 4.1 billion sun-like stars in our galaxy alone, we have yet to visit a single one of them, yet Brian Cox makes statements to the effect that we are alone and links it into climate change. Really, can anyone even picture 4.1 billion as a number of anything? I believe he is making a political statement i.e. we have to look after our planet, but it really hacks me off as people accept what he says without question because he’s on the telly.

https://www.technologyreview.com/20...arth-like-planets-kepler-gaia-habitable-life/
Brian Cox doesn't believe in life on other planets then as well as he doesn't believe in Ghosts but he does have a face and voice you could slap.
 
Are some UFO sightings the solution to the Fermi paradox and if so why, conspiracy theories aside don’t they make open contact?

I’d think, but I don’t know, that the effect of our atomic weapons anywhere else in the universe would be minimal at best. The worst we could do would be to trigger another extinction event on Earth which some claim we are doing already.

The dinosaur killer is estimated to be the equivalent of 10bn Hiroshimas, A technology not too far in advance of us could push one of these into the path of the Earth’s orbit, why would nukes trouble them?

The universe is vast and full of things like suns, novae, FRBs, GRBs; black holes, etc that make our nuclear capability look puny. I doubt that our current crop of instruments could even detect a nuclear war in the system of the nearest star to the sun.

We tend to overstate our progress in getting into space, without denying the achievement all we’ve done is get to the moon and launch a set of probes two of which have reached the boundary of our Solar System after half a century or so.

I’m lucky enough to live near a scale model of our Solar system. I’ve been interested in astronomy since I was a kid and even then I find it hard to comprehend the scale – and don’t forget this is two dimensional not three dimensional! Couple of links here:

https://londonist.com/london/beyond...stem-walk-sevenoaks-kent-location-where-route?

https://www3.astronomicalheritage.n...-sky?place=otford-solar-system-united-kingdom

It could be the effect of what we are doing isn’t anything we are currently aware of - similar to the Babylon 5 scenario where the Humans are losing a war to the Minbari when the Minbari surrender because they’ve found that humans and Minbari “share souls”.

Or

It could be that they’ve invested millennia tinkering with primate DNA and we’re about to destroy all the work.

Or

A moral dilemma in that they know that contact with a more advanced race would be disastrous for us. However they see us about to destroy ourselves. Do they intervene or not?

As @eburacum points out we don’t have enough data, which is true of most Fortean phenomena so we’re just guessing; but that’s half the fun innit? :)
 
Are some UFO sightings the solution to the Fermi paradox and if so why, conspiracy theories aside don’t they make open contact?

I’d think, but I don’t know, that the effect of our atomic weapons anywhere else in the universe would be minimal at best. The worst we could do would be to trigger another extinction event on Earth which some claim we are doing already.

The dinosaur killer is estimated to be the equivalent of 10bn Hiroshimas, A technology not too far in advance of us could push one of these into the path of the Earth’s orbit, why would nukes trouble them?

The universe is vast and full of things like suns, novae, FRBs, GRBs; black holes, etc that make our nuclear capability look puny. I doubt that our current crop of instruments could even detect a nuclear war in the system of the nearest star to the sun.

We tend to overstate our progress in getting into space, without denying the achievement all we’ve done is get to the moon and launch a set of probes two of which have reached the boundary of our Solar System after half a century or so.

I’m lucky enough to live near a scale model of our Solar system. I’ve been interested in astronomy since I was a kid and even then I find it hard to comprehend the scale – and don’t forget this is two dimensional not three dimensional! Couple of links here:

https://londonist.com/london/beyond...stem-walk-sevenoaks-kent-location-where-route?

https://www3.astronomicalheritage.n...-sky?place=otford-solar-system-united-kingdom

It could be the effect of what we are doing isn’t anything we are currently aware of - similar to the Babylon 5 scenario where the Humans are losing a war to the Minbari when the Minbari surrender because they’ve found that humans and Minbari “share souls”.

Or

It could be that they’ve invested millennia tinkering with primate DNA and we’re about to destroy all the work.

Or

A moral dilemma in that they know that contact with a more advanced race would be disastrous for us. However they see us about to destroy ourselves. Do they intervene or not?

As @eburacum points out we don’t have enough data, which is true of most Fortean phenomena so we’re just guessing; but that’s half the fun innit? :)
Interesting, I've hiked through Otford a couple of times and never noticed the reconstruction - next time I'm walking through I'll be sure to look!
 
I’m lucky enough to live near a scale model of our Solar system. I’ve been interested in astronomy since I was a kid and even then I find it hard to comprehend the scale – and don’t forget this is two dimensional not three dimensional!
I used to have a poster on the wall showing the Solar System. It was about a metre long and showed the edge of the sun at one end and the planets dutifully lined up to the Oort Cloud at the other end. I did a few measurements and the sizes of the objects seemed about in scale with each other, but it turned out at that scale, to show the correct distances between the orbits the poster would have stretched to a town several kilometres away. And then it would have shown only up to Neptune.
 
The universe is vast and full of things like suns, novae, FRBs, GRBs; black holes, etc that make our nuclear capability look puny
That's right. The Sun, for instance, puts out a million times as much energy as all our atomic weapons combined, every second.
 
Brian Cox doesn't believe in life on other planets then as well as he doesn't believe in Ghosts but he does have a face and voice you could slap.
Well, consider we (humans) may not be normal but an aberration, a billions to one chance. After all the scientific explanation as to why oxygen breathing life itself exists relies on a tremendous amount of what I (as a non-scientist, although something of an engineer) would call an infeasible sequence of fortunate circumstance. To extrapolate that out to humans goes beyond to the realms of a one celled organism winning the National Lottery.
 
Well, consider we (humans) may not be normal but an aberration, a billions to one chance. After all the scientific explanation as to why oxygen breathing life itself exists relies on a tremendous amount of what I (as a non-scientist, although something of an engineer) would call an infeasible sequence of fortunate circumstance. To extrapolate that out to humans goes beyond to the realms of a one celled organism winning the National Lottery.
The problem is scale. It doesn't matter how vanishingly improbable it was, the universe is so incredibly vast that it should occur multiple times. I say that with the caveat that I'm not a statistician.
 
The problem is scale. It doesn't matter how vanishingly improbable it was, the universe is so incredibly vast that it should occur multiple times. I say that with the caveat that I'm not a statistician.
I do have sympathy with that view. After all, in infinity, everything must happen, right?

But I'm told by people who know more about it that the universe is not infinite - to which, incidentally, my first question is - "Well what's outside it then? To have a boundary it must be between something and something."

There is a fundamental inconsistency in the scientific view of the universe which is only slightly less glaring than the naivety in Genesis and other creation myths.
 
I do have sympathy with that view. After all, in infinity, everything must happen, right?

But I'm told by people who know more about it that the universe is not infinite - to which, incidentally, my first question is - "Well what's outside it then? To have a boundary it must be between something and something."

There is a fundamental inconsistency in the scientific view of the universe which is only slightly less glaring than the naivety in Genesis and other creation myths.
Maybe it wraps around on itself... but honestly, I've no idea... Yog-Sothoth?
 
But I'm told by people who know more about it that the universe is not infinite - to which, incidentally, my first question is - "Well what's outside it then? To have a boundary it must be between something and something."
A tricky question, this. The observable universe is not infinite; indeed, we know how big it is (or at least, we think we do). 92 billion light years in diameter, give or take a billion.

But no-one knows how big the universe is outside this boundary; it may be infinite, or it might even repeat like a hall of mirrors (as SimonBurchell suggests above). We will probably never know the answer to that one.
 
Well, consider we (humans) may not be normal but an aberration, a billions to one chance. After all the scientific explanation as to why oxygen breathing life itself exists relies on a tremendous amount of what I (as a non-scientist, although something of an engineer) would call an infeasible sequence of fortunate circumstance. To extrapolate that out to humans goes beyond to the realms of a one celled organism winning the National Lottery.
Strange as well that for many millions of years supposedly the dinosaurs, many different varieties of them, ruled this planet, along with many other animals.
The variety of life is just amazing.
 
The genius Nikola Tesla himself believed absolutely in life in other places of the universe:

https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2021/01/the-strange-story-of-nikola-tesla-and-the-aliens/

"Even now, at times, I can vividly recall the incident, and see my apparatus as though it were actually before me. My first observations positively terrified me, as there was present in them something mysterious, not to say supernatural, and I was alone in my laboratory at night; but at that time the idea of these disturbances being intelligently controlled signals did not yet present itself to me. It was some time afterward when the thought flashed upon my mind that the disturbances I had observed might be due to an intelligent control. Although I could not decipher their meaning, it was impossible for me to think of them as having been entirely accidental. The feeling is constantly growing on me that I had been the first to hear the greeting of one planet to another.

I have encountered during my experiments with wireless telegraphy a most amazing phenomenon. Most striking of all is receipt by me personally of signals which I believe originated in the space beyond our planet. I believe it is entirely possible that these signals may have been sent by the inhabitants of other planets to the inhabitants of earth. If there are any human beings on Mars I would not be surprised if they should find a means of communication with this planet, a linking of the science of astronomy with that of electricity may bring about almost anything.

Although I am not an expert in wireless telegraphy, I can plainly see that the mysterious wireless interruptions experienced by Mr. Marconi’s operators may be good grounds for the theory that inhabitants of other planets are trying to signal us. Mr. Marconi is quite right in stating that this is entirely within the realm of possible. If we are to accept the theory of Mr. Marconi that these signals are being sent out by inhabitants of other planets, we must as once accept with it the theory of their advanced development. Either they are our intellectual equal or our superiors. It would be stupid of us to assume that we have the corner on all the intelligence in the universe."

How amazing that Tesla said this in 1899!
 
Strange as well that for many millions of years supposedly the dinosaurs, many different varieties of them, ruled this planet, along with many other animals.
The variety of life is just amazing.
Appx 186 million years and as far as we know never got close to developing technological "intelligence". :thought:
 
As far as we know.
Yes, I read somewhere that if they had developed cities like Eridu or Ur it would be very difficult for us to find the remains after all this time. Predator prey ratios and lack of species may point to domestication but given the chance involved in fossilization even that isn't sure.
Doubt they developed plastic though, we would have found that!
 
Yes, I read somewhere that if they had developed cities like Eridu or Ur it would be very difficult for us to find the remains after all this time. Predator prey ratios and lack of species may point to domestication but given the chance involved in fossilization even that isn't sure.
Doubt they developed plastic though, we would have found that!
Plastic? All plastic would have crumbled to dust over millions of years.
It's possible (but improbable) that they had a primitive civilisation with no metal or plastic, but all traces of such a civilisation would have disappeared.
 
The Drake equation, that has been for long time the conceptual instrument to calculate the amount of possible intelligent civilizations in this galaxy has been fulfilled for a long time with too much optimistic values. So is quite possible that we really are the only intelligent civilization in this galaxy... for the moment. Note that i said in this galaxy, but not, in the whole universe.
So then...why we cant contact with this extra milky way civilizations? And the answer is very simple...Too long. Too long both in space and time. So i think that all the Ufology about physical encounters is basically a bunch of logical contradictions.
Possibilities of contacts between extragalactic civilizations then are only possible out of the third dimension, out of the time-space realm. Maybe by reaching a bidimensional realm, the level in which this universe is represented bidimensionally. And that for that reason is out of the space-time constrictions.
Going backwards on the explanation of the too optimistic calculations for possible civilizations, for example, taking the hipotetic number of planets that can hold life: It uses to take in acount only 1 simple factor. Distance from the star in which watter could be found on liquid state. It's not a wrong factor, but needs to be constrained but a lot more others.
For example: The star that is on the solar system is not the kind of the most common ones...but that maters, the others are far less suitable to build life.....other, the duration of the day-night, to stabilise temperature, the presence of a massive liquid iron nucleus that generates a radiation shield over the star. And so on...none of this characteristic are contingent, all are necessary. So if you keep on adding more and more of this characteristics you get less and less of suitable candidates.
 
The aforementioned Cirkovic is quite critical of the Drake Equation... I give an excerpt as a taster, but he has more to say:
So, to those who continue to rewrite, cite, and re-cite the Drake equation without trying to get a deeper theoretical insight, one is more and more justified to ask to ‘put up—or shut up!’ Those cases are legion, however; it is particularly discouraging to find even (section) titles such as ‘The Drake Equation: The Theory of SETI’ or a labelling of the equation as a ‘SETI creed’, when it is exactly the Drake equation which is used instead of any real SETI theory, and when it is exactly the reputation of the entire field which too often suffers from quasi-religious associations. Even worse, that simple fact—that SETI issues have been historically considered too complex or too unworthy of effort for the development of a real theoretical framework—fuels scepticism of those who are opposed to SETI on other grounds. The rhetoric here is twofold: either the lack of a proper theory is used to demonstrate that SETI is not a ‘real science’, or it is claimed that some theoretical underpinnings of SETI do exist, but they are all contained in the Drake equation with its meagre informational content and, at best, vague predictions. The latter strategy is particularly insidious, since it claims real insight into SETI research, albeit one which is outdated and prejudiced. In both cases, a reader is led to the impression that SETI should not be taken seriously. To the extent that the Drake equation represents any elements of SETI theory (in contrast to using it as a fig leaf instead of a real theory), it does so in a manner which is constraining and impractical. This has been noted even by researchers otherwise quite sympathetic to it. As a typical example, consider that the equation prima facie rejects interstellar colonization and the emergence of independent SETI targets by such spatial expansion. Walters and co-workers have tried to correct for that by offering a quantitative model for modifying the Drake equation, but the predominant state of mind in the majority of the SETI community has been amply demonstrated by the sad fact that this study has not been widely cited or employed in justifying practical searches.
 
Yes, I read somewhere that if they had developed cities like Eridu or Ur it would be very difficult for us to find the remains after all this time. Predator prey ratios and lack of species may point to domestication but given the chance involved in fossilization even that isn't sure.
Doubt they developed plastic though, we would have found that!
I thought that some plastics didn't degrade but eroded to microparticles that found their way into the food chain, sedimentary rocks, etc. Don't know how long they would be detectable for though. 66 million years is a long time!
 
And doesn't the Drake equation rather assume that all life is carbon based and reliant on liquid water, etc.?
Michael Crichton, before been a successful betseller writer, was a noticeable Sci-fi film director he did a very good film on the 70s called " the Andromeda strain" that speculates about the idea of a kind of alien life not based in carbon but on silicon.
But being realist again... If you talk with someone that are formed on chemistry and biology, he will tell you that carbon not has been the element chosen by life to develop by any "casual" circunstamce. Is simply cause is far better on building very complex compounds and molecules that the other periodical elements. Its possible, but far less probable. So the you return again to the scenario in which triying to find the carbon-water couple conditions is by far the scenario needed.
In the Cult of Toth writings have been postulated that this kind of constrictions build by the dinamics of the development of life keep going on very far... giving a scenario quite uncomfortable about the nature of that civilizations.

images.jpeg
 
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There's also Fred Hoyle's "Black cloud" about a very different form of life. But Carbon based does seem to be the most likely; at least to us carbon based bipeds.:)
 
I thought that some plastics didn't degrade but eroded to microparticles that found their way into the food chain, sedimentary rocks, etc. Don't know how long they would be detectable for though. 66 million years is a long time!
Even the most durable plastics would break down chemically and physically over 60-odd million years.
We're seeing plastic that is turning into microparticles after only a few years. After millions of years, those micro-particles would have become nano-particles, then would have eventually broken down even further into just molecules.
 
One of the most curious hypothesis i have ever ear was about the possibility of the existence of non biological minds. Is not the usual idea of machines that think, but other far more strange, the idea of space minds that have no biological origin at all, but simply the interaction and changes into inanimated mater.
In magic, magicians often interact with entities that are non biological but that seem to have the capability of thinking and will. But even between the magicians there is not a clear opinion about what they are. Maybe aggregations of the mind and will of other humans in a non individual way, but who knows. Maybe its nature is still more misterious: Non human magicians, or even, entities that are build on higher dimensions than the tridimensional one.
 
One of the most curious hypothesis i have ever ear was about the possibility of the existence of non biological minds. Is not the usual idea of machines that think, but other far more strange, the idea of space minds that have no biological origin at all, but simply the interaction and changes into inanimated mater.
In magic, magicians often interact with entities that are non biological but that seem to have the capability of thinking and will. But even between the magicians there is not a clear opinion about what they are. Maybe aggregations of the mind and will of other humans in a non individual way, but who knows. Maybe its nature is still more misterious: Non human magicians, or even, entities that are build on higher dimensions than the tridimensional one.
Yep, Hoyle's black cloud see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Cloud
 
I believe there is intelligent life out there, but you have to wonder what any that were
capable of making the trip here would make of life here, our biggest industry's are
geared towards killing each other so what are we likely to try to do to outsiders.
I.am not even sure there is intelligent life here, and their idea of it may vary widely
from ours, if they have done a bit of re-con they will have every expectation of being
attacked, imprisoned, interrogated, dissected, killed not necessarily in that order,
and if we find they taste like chicken eaten.
No I don't blame them for not landing on the White House lawn.
:omr:
 
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