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Why The 'Case of Kersey Village' Was An Impressive Time-Slip (Suffolk 1957)

David Plankton said:
A few years ago I bought a brace of pheasants from Fenwick's Food Hall in Newcastle for Christmas dinner. I asked the man on the counter if they would still be alright to eat on Christmas day and he replied that they would taste even better on New Years day.
On Christmas morning I had a really bad hangover and had to prepare lunch. When I unwrapped them, they absolutely stunk and were tinged with blue and green patches. It was a tricky morning but I pulled it off and they were delicious.
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Fermented meat, popular in some countries but so far for braver men than I.
 
There was a case recently where a student died from eating cooked pasta which had been left out for a few days. Having said that ,from observation, student kitchens are not the most hygenic of places so that it might not have been the fact that the pasta was days old which caused the fatality. Eating rotten meat (not watched the vid, I have a delicate stomach) is a very stupid thing to do.
 
I am another one utterly fascinated by time slip stories. The possibility of a glimpse into the past (or future) just makes them irrisistable.

For one book wot I wrote, I actually had to study the Bronze Age quite thoroughly (the book was a time slip book, oddly enough) and I wonder why, when people say that they notice an absence of sound during the experience, they don't seem to note a change of smell? During my research I came to the conclusion that the distant past would smell a lot different to nowadays - no car emissions, coal smoke, different plants and herbs flowering to those we have now. So in this case I would have thought that one of the lads might have remarked on the air smelling 'different', but that never seems to be touched on.
 
catseye said:
During my research I came to the conclusion that the distant past would smell a lot different to nowadays - no car emissions, coal smoke, different plants and herbs flowering to those we have now. So in this case I would have thought that one of the lads might have remarked on the air smelling 'different', but that never seems to be touched on.
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Excellent point.

Iirc, Peter ackroyd's excellent book on London touches on the smell and the noise of different time periods.
 
catseye said:
I am another one utterly fascinated by time slip stories. The possibility of a glimpse into the past (or future) just makes them irrisistable.

For one book wot I wrote, I actually had to study the Bronze Age quite thoroughly (the book was a time slip book, oddly enough) and I wonder why, when people say that they notice an absence of sound during the experience, they don't seem to note a change of smell? During my research I came to the conclusion that the distant past would smell a lot different to nowadays - no car emissions, coal smoke, different plants and herbs flowering to those we have now. So in this case I would have thought that one of the lads might have remarked on the air smelling 'different', but that never seems to be touched on.
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Interesting point. I would guess that if you realised visually that you were in the wrong time, or something, smell probably wouldn't be so salient. The witnesses in this case made a point of saying that they couldn't smell the rotting carcase in the shop. I'm sure there are a few mentions but it's certainly not common. Also people differ in their sense of smell, mine is quite poor.
Or maybe smell is harder to program by those who operate our virtual reality?
 
Back to THIS story, I don't know if this is interesting and/or useful, but I found this article;

An extract from a report in the Suffolk Chronicle on Apr-10 in 1813 states that : Sale by Auction on 29 April 1813 Lot 3. A capital public house known by the sign of The Bell, Kersey, in the occupation of Mr Robert WARD consisting of 3 parlours, 6 chambers, good kitchen, brew house, pantry, cellar & wash house, stable, yard, cart lodge & an excellent malting office with chambers for 15 coombs steep. The building dates from the 14th century.
 
Not sure I'd put too much emphasis on the high suicide rate in Kersey - there's a pretty high suicide rate in a lot of very rural places, because of the lack of support networks and difficulty accessing mental health services out in the sticks.

Farmers tend to have a very high suicide factor for just those reasons (that and the fiscal returns for a 24 hour job are so rubbish).
 
catseye said:
Not sure I'd put too much emphasis on the high suicide rate in Kersey - there's a pretty high suicide rate in a lot of very rural places, because of the lack of support networks and difficulty accessing mental health services out in the sticks.

Farmers tend to have a very high suicide factor for just those reasons (that and the fiscal returns for a 24 hour job are so rubbish).
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Good point. And I haven't heard high suicide rates mentioned in other areas where time slips etc. have occurred. I do believe there is evidence of higher numbers of suicides in the vicinity of high tension power lines. though.
 
Just my tuppence worth,
Glass was a rare and expensive comodity in medievel times and not routinely used in the construction residential buildings until 1700's, so the 'time slip' would be after this time as they described 'looking through windows'.
I have experienced major temperature changes over a short period of time, i remember working on a building site on a frosty november morning, an hour later i was sat drinking coffee outside in the sunshine in a t-shirt.
Has anyone considered that the village they were directed to wasnt in fact Kersey? The farm labourer could have sent them to any village/hamlet in the area, just to get rid of them as he was 'suspicious' of them, and when they 'returned' to Kersey 30 years later it was in fact the first time they had actually been there, i know around where i live there are many villages with the same name, preceeded by, upper, lower, east, west, middle etc..and these villages are all very similar in layout, if they were directed to a similar sounding village of a similar layout, it would obviously be different when they 'returned' 30 years later.
 
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To add one more penny.
The villagers might have seen 'men in uniform' approacing their village (probably armed with their trusty 303's), grabbed their children and run for the hills, either thinking they were being invaded (1957 cold war paranoia) or it was those pesky yanks come to deflower their maidens.
 
Another penny (this is getting expensive lol)
The church bells, if, as i speculated, the village folk took to the hills on seeing the 'soldiers' approaching, the bells may have been a warning to evacuate (they heard the bells as the approached) and a signal for the all clear for the villagers to return to the village (they heard the bells again after the left the village).
 
Souleater said:
Another penny (this is getting expensive lol)
The church bells, if, as i speculated, the village folk took to the hills on seeing the 'soldiers' approaching, the bells may have been a warning to evacuate (they heard the bells as the approached) and a signal for the all clear for the villagers to return to the village (they heard the bells again after the left the village).
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The villagers might have seen 'men in uniform' approacing their village (probably armed with their trusty 303's), grabbed their children and run for the hills, either thinking they were being invaded (1957 cold war paranoia) or it was those pesky yanks come to deflower their maidens.
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I don't know, they were three Naval cadets, just fifteen years of age. I can't remember reading they had guns.
 
David Plankton said:
I don't know, they were three Naval cadets, just fifteen years of age. I can't remember reading they had guns.
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Yes i forgot they were cadets, but still, seeing stranger uniformed types desending on your village on a sunday morning at a time of cold war paranoia may have been enougjt to send the locals scurrying for shelter
 
I'm not sure people were quite that paranoid in 1957... I can understand one or two who'd lived through the war overreacting at seeing a few teenagers in uniform, but not the entire village.
 
catseye said:
I'm not sure people were quite that paranoid in 1957... I can understand one or two who'd lived through the war overreacting at seeing a few teenagers in uniform, but not the entire village.
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Veiwed at a distance they would have been seen as, just 3 people in uniform, which may have been unfamiliar to them, as they were naval cadets rather than army cadets, and i have read accounts of people in the fifties being very scared of a threat from Russia, be that invasion or nuclear attack, so there may have been a standing alert system in the village at the time, ie if the church bell rings 'x' times, run for the hills, its only a speculation and more likely (in my opinion) to a time slip, also it could just be the church signalling the start of service and everyone being in attendance at the church, the other bells they heard on leaving the village could easily have been from a nearby church in another village, sould can travel quite far on a still day of if the wind is in the right direction, but as i said its only my speculation, i alway try to eliminate the possible before going to the improbable.
 
Souleater said:
Veiwed at a distance they would have been seen as, just 3 people in uniform, which may have been unfamiliar to them, as they were naval cadets rather than army cadets, and i have read accounts of people in the fifties being very scared of a threat from Russia, be that invasion or nuclear attack, so there may have been a standing alert system in the village at the time, ie if the church bell rings 'x' times, run for the hills, its only a speculation and more likely (in my opinion) to a time slip, also it could just be the church signalling the start of service and everyone being in attendance at the church, the other bells they heard on leaving the village could easily have been from a nearby church in another village, sould can travel quite far on a still day of if the wind is in the right direction, but as i said its only my speculation, i alway try to eliminate the possible before going to the improbable.
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Oh I don't think it was a time slip. I just don't buy the entire village running away at the sight of uniforms. To you young whipper snappers, 1957 was a primitive time but, although I'm not quite old enough to remember it, it wasn't quite as primitive as everyone being alerted by the church bells. A lot would have had televisions and radios and would have listened to those for an alert of any kind of invasion.
 
catseye said:
Oh I don't think it was a time slip. I just don't buy the entire village running away at the sight of uniforms. To you young whipper snappers, 1957 was a primitive time but, although I'm not quite old enough to remember it, it wasn't quite as primitive as everyone being alerted by the church bells. A lot would have had televisions and radios and would have listened to those for an alert of any kind of invasion.
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Being as the village was on the east coast, first point of call for an invading force from the east, they may have been more paranoid and would maybe the first to know of a sneak invasion by hostile forces, before any official warnings came. Again, just playing devils advocate here :eek:nick:
 
Souleater said:
Being as the village was on the east coast, first point of call for an invading force from the east, they may have been more paranoid and would maybe the first to know of a sneak invasion by hostile forces, before any official warnings came. Again, just playing devils advocate here :eek:nick:
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Yes, me too, I subscribe to the 'got the wrong village' theory!
 
catseye said:
Yes, me too, I subscribe to the 'got the wrong village' theory!
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Another thing that occured to me was the reaction of their c/o on them reporting the case 'he laughed/shrugged, saying thats Kersey' as if he knew it was a bit of a weird suspicious place where they would find it odd or unsettling.
 
I still think Kersey a likely time slip in view of the overall flow of evidence. When people enter a village, no matter under what circumstances, the church doesn't disappear, the weather doesn't change instantly from winter to summer, the houses don't empty, butchers don't put rotting cadavers in their windows, and the villagers don't vanish or hide from three teenage cadets. When they leave a village, the weather doesn't turn cold, the church that wasn't there start ringing its bells, and smoke appear from chimneys that previously had none (it took a fair time to light a coal fire in the 50s). To say nothing about the lack of relatively modern features such as TV aerials, telephone lines etc.
 
Carl Grove said:
I still think Kersey a likely time slip in view of the overall flow of evidence. When people enter a village, no matter under what circumstances, the church doesn't disappear, the weather doesn't change instantly from winter to summer, the houses don't empty, butchers don't put rotting cadavers in their windows, and the villagers don't vanish or hide from three teenage cadets. When they leave a village, the weather doesn't turn cold, the church that wasn't there start ringing its bells, and smoke appear from chimneys that previously had none (it took a fair time to light a coal fire in the 50s). To say nothing about the lack of relatively modern features such as TV aerials, telephone lines etc.
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Ive given a personal example of sudden weather changes, i pointed out that from a distance the three uniformed individuals could instil panic in a cold war paranoid village, a lot of chimneys have vents that can be closed (usually to stop rain ingress), church bells can be rung or not rung at anytime for any reason, and the lack of 'modern' features has been address in many post explaining that the village specifically did not have visable over head power lines (when they were installed) to peserve the look of the village, it has also been posted that many villages were not linked to the grid until quite late, the 70's in some cases, my family had no outside tv ariel until 20 years ago, surviving with an indoor antenna, and there is no record of when telephone line were installed in the village, the only unexplainable thing is the fact that the 2 of the witnesses dont recall (30 years on) seeing the church tower. Im not suggesting you do, but it is always important to read all of the posts, even if they seem to contradict your theory, rather than cherry pick the ones you think may back up your theory, i myself have/had no preformed opinion on this incident before i began reading it, im basing my opinion on the evidence before me and using my own personal experiences, then commenting on what i think may be the answers.
 
Souleater said:
Ive given a personal example of sudden weather changes, i pointed out that from a distance the three uniformed individuals could instil panic in a cold war paranoid village, a lot of chimneys have vents that can be closed (usually to stop rain ingress), church bells can be rung or not rung at anytime for any reason, and the lack of 'modern' features has been address in many post explaining that the village specifically did not have visable over head power lines (when they were installed) to peserve the look of the village, it has also been posted that many villages were not linked to the grid until quite late, the 70's in some cases, my family had no outside tv ariel until 20 years ago, surviving with an indoor antenna, and there is no record of when telephone line were installed in the village, the only unexplainable thing is the fact that the 2 of the witnesses dont recall (30 years on) seeing the church tower. Im not suggesting you do, but it is always important to read all of the posts, even if they seem to contradict your theory, rather than cherry pick the ones you think may back up your theory, i myself have/had no preformed opinion on this incident before i began reading it, im basing my opinion on the evidence before me and using my own personal experiences, then commenting on what i think may be the answers.
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I don't "cherry pick" anything, I just point out that even if you accept that maybe there were no TV aerials to see or visible power or phone lines in the village, that doesn't alter the key facts that do point to something out of the ordinary. The witnesses didn't see a church tower that would have dominated the view from the place they stopped by the pond. The church bells that they heard before entering and the smoke from the chimneys ceased when they entered. The weather changed completely from bitter cold to a bright hot day. The windows they looked into showed no signs of human life and no modern furnishings. The butchers shop (which was not actually a butchers in the 1950s but a private residence) had a rotting cadaver on display, and that's all there was. And when they left, after passing a certain point, everything changed back, the weather, the church bells, the chimney smoke. I don't say that Kersey is the best time slip ever, but I would put it in the top 30 cases, say.
 
Carl Grove said:
I don't "cherry pick" anything, I just point out that even if you accept that maybe there were no TV aerials to see or visible power or phone lines in the village, that doesn't alter the key facts that do point to something out of the ordinary. The witnesses didn't see a church tower that would have dominated the view from the place they stopped by the pond. The church bells that they heard before entering and the smoke from the chimneys ceased when they entered. The weather changed completely from bitter cold to a bright hot day. The windows they looked into showed no signs of human life and no modern furnishings. The butchers shop (which was not actually a butchers in the 1950s but a private residence) had a rotting cadaver on display, and that's all there was. And when they left, after passing a certain point, everything changed back, the weather, the church bells, the chimney smoke. I don't say that Kersey is the best time slip ever, but I would put it in the top 30 cases, say.
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Firstly i made a point of saying,
Souleater said:
Im not suggesting you do
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Regarding cherry picking posts.
I conceeded that
Souleater said:
the only unexplainable thing is the fact that the 2 of the witnesses dont recall (30 years on) seeing the church tower.
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In the original document by Alberto Miatello he describes
Screenshot_20210209-141301 (2).png

Not the 'bitter cold' day you describe, and as i described in an earlier post today, i have experienced working on a building site on a cold crisp november morning and an hour later been sat outside drinking coffee in a t-shirt, the temperature can change quickly, it happens ive experienced it.
As for the 'butchers shop' it is only the 'green and rotting' ox cadavers, that makes them believe it was a butchers, could they not have misinterpreted something such as cloths draped over old furniture for ox carcasses for example, nowhere do they describe butchers blocks, cleavers, knives etc..
It has been stated that at the time the 3 cadets were at the village, that a number of cottages were in
disrepair/condemned/abandoned, so it would not be a suprise to come across one or more of these,
As for the chimneys that could, i repeat could be explained by the fact that it is more difficult to see a chimney from directly below it, ie on the street the cottages are located, than from a distance, or that smoke is just more difficult to see if, for instance, the sun had come from behind cloud making the day brighter, than when the sun is obscured by cloud making the day duller.
I will say again these are my observations based on the evidence i have read here and my own personal experiences.
 
Souleater said:
Firstly i made a point of saying,

Regarding cherry picking posts.
I conceeded that

In the original document by Alberto Miatello he describes
View attachment 34962
Not the 'bitter cold' day you describe, and as i described in an earlier post today, i have experienced working on a building site on a cold crisp november morning and an hour later been sat outside drinking coffee in a t-shirt, the temperature can change quickly, it happens ive experienced it.
As for the 'butchers shop' it is only the 'green and rotting' ox cadavers, that makes them believe it was a butchers, could they not have misinterpreted something such as cloths draped over old furniture for ox carcasses for example, nowhere do they describe butchers blocks, cleavers, knives etc..
It has been stated that at the time the 3 cadets were at the village, that a number of cottages were in
disrepair/condemned/abandoned, so it would not be a suprise to come across one or more of these,
As for the chimneys that could, i repeat could be explained by the fact that it is more difficult to see a chimney from directly below it, ie on the street the cottages are located, than from a distance, or that smoke is just more difficult to see if, for instance, the sun had come from behind cloud making the day brighter, than when the sun is obscured by cloud making the day duller.
I will say again these are my observations based on the evidence i have read here and my own personal experiences.
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The description of the rotting cadavers (I had forgotten there were several) is very definite and precise, definitely not a piece of cloth:

"there was a butcher's shop, the only commercial building we saw in the village... (it had) not tables or counters, just two or three whole oxen caraccases which had been skinned and in places were quite green with age. There was a green-painted wall and windows with smallish glass panes, one at the front and one at the side, rather dirty-looking. ".. as we looked through that window in disbelief at the streaked and mouldy green carcasses I had a strong feeling of unreality... The general feeling certainly was one of disbelief and unreality... One thing it could not have been was a phantom building as we would have been leaning against the window-frame as we peered in... Who would believe... that the health authorities would allow such conditions.... There was certainly no smell... to all appearances the owner had shut up shop weeks before, leaving the carcasses to rot.

Regarding the conditions, yes, the sun had been shining prior to entering the village, but there was a noticeable change, "the autumn colour of the grass and vegetation as we approached the village, but it was verdant in Kersey along from the bridge, and the trees were that magnificent green that one finds in spring or early summer. Could we have walked from autumn to spring in ten minutes? ... there is a different light in spring and autumn and I am very conscious of colour and light... (comments on lack of telephone or electricity wires, TV aerials or street lights) ... We hurried out of the lane then suddenly we could hear the bells once more and saw smoke rising from the chimneys, but none of the chimneys were smoking when we were in the village.."

I'm going to attach a very poor quality picture that looks to date from the 50s or perhaps earlier. It shows how impossible it would have been to have failed to see the church tower from the area around the pond and also shows what looks to me like a telephone or telegraph pole.
Kersey view from water splash.jpg


On balance it still seems to me that the cadets witnessed a time slip kind of event.
 
I’ve been reading the new posts on this thread along with all the other new posts coming in today. I got an email from the Academia website recommending several pdfs of documents about timeslips, including two written by contributors to this very thread. Wonder why as there were plenty of other relevant things I have spent more time looking at.
 
I am fascinated by time slips - they are my favourite kind of 'fortean happening'. Doesn't mean I'm unquestioningly going to go 'oh yes, definite time slip' to every case though.
 
Carl Grove said:
The description of the rotting cadavers (I had forgotten there were several) is very definite and precise, definitely not a piece of cloth:

"there was a butcher's shop, the only commercial building we saw in the village... (it had) not tables or counters, just two or three whole oxen caraccases which had been skinned and in places were quite green with age. There was a green-painted wall and windows with smallish glass panes, one at the front and one at the side, rather dirty-looking. ".. as we looked through that window in disbelief at the streaked and mouldy green carcasses I had a strong feeling of unreality... The general feeling certainly was one of disbelief and unreality... One thing it could not have been was a phantom building as we would have been leaning against the window-frame as we peered in... Who would believe... that the health authorities would allow such conditions.... There was certainly no smell... to all appearances the owner had shut up shop weeks before, leaving the carcasses to rot.

Regarding the conditions, yes, the sun had been shining prior to entering the village, but there was a noticeable change, "the autumn colour of the grass and vegetation as we approached the village, but it was verdant in Kersey along from the bridge, and the trees were that magnificent green that one finds in spring or early summer. Could we have walked from autumn to spring in ten minutes? ... there is a different light in spring and autumn and I am very conscious of colour and light... (comments on lack of telephone or electricity wires, TV aerials or street lights) ... We hurried out of the lane then suddenly we could hear the bells once more and saw smoke rising from the chimneys, but none of the chimneys were smoking when we were in the village.."

I'm going to attach a very poor quality picture that looks to date from the 50s or perhaps earlier. It shows how impossible it would have been to have failed to see the church tower from the area around the pond and also shows what looks to me like a telephone or telegraph pole.View attachment 34973

On balance it still seems to me that the cadets witnessed a time slip kind of event.
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Just out of curiosity i looked up some photos of Kersey and found a couple from tje 50's which show the village with a dirt road

il_570xN.1057780357_xmrs.jpg
s-l400 (1).jpg
 
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