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Wild Hunt & Wandering Jew

Yithian said:
There's a little bit in Ronald Hutton's book, The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles: Their Nature and Legacy.

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(The dreadful consequences he mentions at the start are witch-hunt manias)
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Interesting. A female lead for the Wild Hunt. I have not heard of this before.

Also interested at the suggestion that some kind of (for want of a better term) 'dream realm' was an understood belief across Europe.

If a notion that people souls were literally being snatched away to join the Hunt *was* an understood common-held belief across thousands of people there would have to be a reason for that surely? People would have to be actively experiencing something akin to that in their dreams, in high enough numbers for people to have compared notes on the matter and agreed they had dreamed something similar.

Mass Hysteria? The unlikely occasion of actual shared dreams?

I wish more information on the Hunt in general had been documented in centuries past.
 
If you are in the mood to read an old German book on the subject, I found this:

https://archive.org/stream/derbaumkultusde01manngoog/derbaumkultusde01manngoog_djvu.txt

"The tree cult of the Germanic Tribes and their Neighbours".

According to a quick scan, the Wild Hunt are the spirits that live in the trees, which may get liberated from them and are being chased by Wodan. If you look at them, your soul becomes part of the chase.
 
Interesting, Wistman's Wood in Devon is particularly associated with the Wild Hunt. That would seem to go along with a tree spirit association.
 
Gloucestrian said:
Interesting, Wistman's Wood in Devon is particularly associated with the Wild Hunt. That would seem to go along with a tree spirit association.
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I had not heard of this. Is there a good source for that?
 
There's a Devon variant on the Wild Hunt called the Wist Hounds. The local legend is of a dark huntsman who leads a pack of hounds, the aforementioned Wist Hounds, across Dartmoor. This hunt is supposed to start from Wistman's Wood.

It is seen by some as a survival of Celtic mythology into the early modern period in Devon. There is a Welsh myth of the Cŵn Annwn, the Hounds of Annwn (the otherworld), who were led from the otherworld by Arawn, the King of Annwn, from Cadair Idris. This Welsh myth is also linked to the Wild Hunt as it was suggested that Arawn's hunt was to gather souls to take to Annwn.

I have often come across references to both in association with Wistman's Wood and Dartmoor in general but I can't give any precise ones just now. Of course more recent books often simply refer back to older books with the ultimate reference pool only being one or two books who cite nothing more than anonymous sources. I haven't done that deep dive for Wistman's Wood, but I might well do so as it is an area I am interested in. If I do, I will post back more detail.
 
Gloucestrian said:
It is seen by some as a survival of Celtic mythology into the early modern period in Devon. There is a Welsh myth of the Cŵn Annwn, the Hounds of Annwn (the otherworld), who were led from the otherworld by Arawn, the King of Annwn, from Cadair Idris. This Welsh myth is also linked to the Wild Hunt as it was suggested that Arawn's hunt was to gather souls to take to Annwn.
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I am distantly aware of the Hounds of Annwn from the Mabinogion. But I was not aware of any direct links to the Wild Hunt. Though the Hounds could fly I've always thought of the Wild Hunt more of spectral men on horseback than a pack of hunting dogs. Maybe I shouldn't.
 
I would think that what characterized any ghostly cavalcade as specifically a hunt, rather than anything else, was the presence of hounds?

As was noted up thread, the honking of migrating geese has sometimes been given as an explanation for the "Wild Hunt" as under certain circumstances they might sound a bit like dogs barking. Thus it would seem those offering such an explanation certainly thought of dogs being present in the Wild Hunt.

I suspect that the various phenomenon that have been linked to the Wild Hunt archetype may have little in common with each other beyond the basics and that each "case" deserves more scrutiny on its own merits. The Wild Hunt archetype may have been used as a "bucket" into which to shove all myths and legends of ghostly huntsmen, perhaps justifiably but perhaps not. For my part, I had not come across the idea that the Wild Hunt was "collecting" or "driving" spirits of trees before seeing Kingsize Wombat's post and simply thought it was interesting that most of these Wild Hunt stories are associated with forests.
 
Yithian said:
There's a little bit in Ronald Hutton's book, The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles: Their Nature and Legacy.

View attachment 17752View attachment 17753

(The dreadful consequences he mentions at the start are witch-hunt manias)
Click to expand...

Following on from this very broad mention, I've found a specific article on the Wild Hunt by Hutton here.

Hutton, R. E. (2014). The Wild Hunt and the Witches' Sabbath. Folklore, 125 (2), 161-178.

The Wild Hunt and the Witches’ Sabbath
Ronald Hutton

Abstract:
Recent writing on the medieval origins of the concept of the witches’ sabbath have emphasized the importance to them of beliefs in nocturnal processions or cavalcades of spirits, known in modern times by the umbrella term of the ‘Wild Hunt’. This article suggests that the modern notion of the ‘Hunt’ was created by Jacob Grimm, who conflated different medieval traditions with modern folklore. It further argues that a different approach to the study of medieval spirit processions, which confines itself to medieval and early modern sources and distinguishes between the types of procession described in them, results in different conclusions, with regard both to the character of the ‘Hunt’ and to its relationship with the sabbath.

Full Article:
https://research-information.bris.ac.uk/files/38162196/WildHunt_first_edit.pdf
 
I seem to recall reading references in American novels, though which particular one fail to come to mind. IIRC one such novel was set in the East, Charleston or thereabouts.
 
James_H said:
This song always made me think the legend had made it to the states, but is there any record of it apart from the song? ...
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This song (most popularly but inaccurately called "Ghost Riders In The Sky") dates back to the late 1940s and the cowboy / western pop genre.

This essay examines the similarities between the song's story (allegedly based on a Texas stampede tragedy) and the Wild Hunt mythos, but ends up concluding the sources are sufficiently different to suggest it's more a matter of parallel evolution than linear descent.

https://esoterx.com/2012/12/09/ghost-riders-in-the-sky-the-wild-hunt-and-the-eternal-stampede/
 
Wikipedia claims it was inspired by cloud simulacra. As Enola says, the genre was guitar-based western/pop, so the imagined riders would be cowboys not huntsmen. I have yet to read the linked essay but it is in my in-tray!*

I had always, slightly vaguely, related the song to the sort of hybrid western-horror genre which thrived in the short films and serials of the thirties. Hauntings, in these pictures, were always unmasked as red-herrings, deployed by rustlers, bandits and demented old prospectors. Haunted Gold is one John Wayne title, which comes to mind. :cskull:

*Edit: I have now. It is well worth the read and includes the full lyrics of the song. :)
 
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Wikipedia suggests it might be based on a native american legend:
Stan Jones stated he had been told the story when he was 12 years old by an old Native American who resided north-east of the Douglas, Arizona border town, a few miles behind D Hill, north of Agua Prieta, Sonora. The Native Americans, possibly Apache, who lived within Cochise County, believed that when souls vacate their physical bodies, they reside as spirits in the sky, resembling ghost riders. He related this story to Wayne Hester, a boyhood friend (later owner of the Douglas Cable Company). As both boys were looking at the clouds, Stan shared what the old Native American had told him, looking in amazement as the cloudy shapes were identified as the "ghost riders" that years later, would be transposed into lyrics.
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A pop culture reference to the Wandering Jew has him as one of the possible origin stories for the DC Comics character "The Phantom Stranger".
 
Last year I experienced the 'geese flying over at night' and can attest that the noise is quite pant-wettingly alarming.

It took me some time to work out what it was and only the fact that my extraordinarily reactive dog was with me and not reacting in any way, stopped me from running home to hide under a blanket.
 
catseye said:
Last year I experienced the 'geese flying over at night' and can attest that the noise is quite pant-wettingly alarming.

It took me some time to work out what it was and only the fact that my extraordinarily reactive dog was with me and not reacting in any way, stopped me from running home to hide under a blanket.
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You've never heard them before that?
I remember them flying overhead every year on the way to a warmer climate. Not so common now, oddly.
 
Mythopoeika said:
I remember them flying overhead every year on the way to a warmer climate. Not so common now, oddly.
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They were a sign that autumn had arrived for certain in Southport! Vast flocks of them would pass, morning after morning, as the days grew shorter, all in their essential V-shaped formation. Even then, I think I had seen enough war films to find in them a sense of alarm - probably more evacuation* than invasion. I don't recall them at night - we got their concentrated flight-paths, soon after take-off from Marshside and Martin Mere, which became a sanctuary. :)

*War-time style, that is, not the pant-wetting kind!
 
Just yesterday on our morning walk our dogs suddenly stopped still and looked up perplexed.
Then I heard it too - an extremely loud rhythmic humming overhead that broke the otherwise silent surroundings
It was a bit scary! It was a formation of swans flying really low over us - beautiful sight..
 
Mythopoeika said:
You've never heard them before that?
I remember them flying overhead every year on the way to a warmer climate. Not so common now, oddly.
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I've heard geese many many times, but not after dark. And the sound was 'different' somehow at night. They weren't honking, it sounded 'scratchier' than that, although it could have been a combination of nervous reaction on my part, windless night, no other background noises. Usually, when you hear the weird noise you look up - there are geese, so weird noise = geese. When you can't see (because it's dark), it's just a weird noise...

things are different in the dark.
 
Big Cat Arthur has a ridiculously squeaky miaow, which is easily identifiable outside the front door during daylight. At night, however, outside the bedroom window, it sort of mutates into a high-pitched growl, which can give rise to surprisingly specific nightmares.
 
A pair of honking Canada geese flew over me in the deep twilight, just about the rooftops in our local suburb. The sun was well down, the skyglow nearly purple and the brighter stars were showing at the time.
 
The figure painted in the cave of Trois-Freres, France has always evoked a connection to the 'wild hunt' stories, Herne et al for me:

About 10-12,000 years old, he's quite striking!

troisfreres.jpg


From http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/news/cave_art_paintings.php?id=Half-Human-Half-Animal-Rock-Art
 
The pic doesnt match the painting...Typical of cave art representation.

Breul was it? Cant recall the artist.

Anyhow geese sound weird...but are just that, once you get used to them.

There is an estuary to the soth of Newquay, in Cornwall, called the Gannel.

And there is the Gannel Crake, said to be a harbringer of death. All sorts of theories as to this, including perhaps an exotic vagrant. (The frigate bird was suggested)

My friend at the Newquay Museum has heard it. She says it is the vixen echoing in the narrow gap.
 
Kondoru said:
Anyhow geese sound weird...but are just that, once you get used to them.

There is an estuary to the soth of Newquay, in Cornwall, called the Gannel.

And there is the Gannel Crake, said to be a harbringer of death. All sorts of theories as to this, including perhaps an exotic vagrant. (The frigate bird was suggested)

My friend at the Newquay Museum has heard it. She says it is the vixen echoing in the narrow gap.
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Estuary? Weird noise? Bittern.


maximus otter
 
Kondoru said:
Breul was it? Cant recall the artist.
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Abbé Breuil?

I wonder if it's faded/been damaged since discovery. Didn't they close some of the caves becuase condensation from the breath of visitors was harming the paintings?

It doesn't look the same as the picture, that's for sure!
 
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