Wodewose: UK Manbeasts

Moooksta

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pinkstarbuck said:
Does anybody know anything about this video? Its been circulating youtube for a while. Its a a strange half man/half dog creature caught on CCTV crossing a major motorway. The video itself doesn`t give any clues as to where it happened but its in the UK somewhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VFWL2p7IxE
And...

PeniG said:
We've seen that before. Somebody came on a few months ago with a set of videos that he claimed as genuine and which we universally received as some decent CGI, wanting to know whether he was promoting a new videogame, or had done the animations for class, or what? He never responded. There were three or four vids showing closer views than this, including one that supposedly showed monsters mating.
Anyone wanting to know about computer animation would do well to attend Bournemouth University as they do many, many courses on the subject.

Wouldn't be the first time one of the students tried to create something Fortean, back in the 90's they created an alien who walked around the town centre, being captured on CCTV and attracting the attention of the Plod.

And having spent a couple of years living there I'd say this is either the Wessex Way connecting Bournemouth to Poole or the little stretch of pretend motorway taking you into Boscombe.
 

Quake42

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Because i'm one of the three men! Nick wrote it as a piss take / tribute. I was flatttered but had no idea that people would take it seriously. I'm slightly worried as i do real cryptozoological research all over the world!
In fairness the book isn't sold or marketed as a novel/fiction, but as a semi-serious investigation of various paranormal phenomena. I'd always taken it with a pinch of salt but had assumed it was based on real events. I feel a bit cheated now. :?
 

Anome

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I did wonder about some of it, particularly the some of the subtleties in the characterisation of Jon Downes. But then I don't know him, so who am I to question it?
 

Bigfoot73

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My copy has "Occult" on the back, not "Occult Fiction" and certainly not "Fiction".
Jon Downes seems anything but bombastic, has indignantly denied ever wearing a monocle and is unlikely to scoff fancy chocolates seeing as he's diabetic.
lordmongrove did say either here or on the pliosaur thread that it was the Cannock chase red-eyed apemen that were fictional, although the chapter on the Glastonbury Gargoyle stretches credulity somewhat.
 

lordmongrove

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I've been to glastonbury many tmes but have never once seen a winged humanoid! I did once do an occult ritual to try and raise owlman. It was donkey's years ago and bugger all happened!
Jon Downes is not the 'friend of dorothy' he is shown to be in the book. He's happily married. Nick wrote that as a piss take.
By the way im working on two collections of crypto-related horror fiction, one set in Japan (consisting of 100 stories) and another much slimmer volume set in the UK.Please not now these are fiction and will be sold as such so that no one confuses it with my real cryptozoological research (but you would have to be pretty di witted to do that in the first place).
 

Timble2

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wembley9 said:
It seems Three Men Seeking Monsters may be made into a movie -

http://www.movieweb.com/news/NE4sb57dDK8369

- in Jon Ronson can be played by Ewan McGregor, who would you get?
Gary Oldman, Bill Bailey, and Timothy Spall

(or if we're going for the TV audience Ant and Dec, and Christopher Biggins and retitle it "I'm a Cryptozoologist, Get Me Out of Here)

Or if they're relocating it to the US of A Ben Stiller, Snoop Dogg, and Jack Black, fitting in trips to Roswell, Point Pleasant, Bluff Creek, Lake Champlain, Okanagan Lake (I know that's Canada, but since that's where it would be shot anyway, it wouldn't be too difficult to fit in)
 

OneWingedBird

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I did once do an occult ritual to try and raise owlman. It was donkey's years ago and bugger all happened!
The Spider God, as i recall, was a slightly better result? :shock: :D
 

lordmongrove

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Yes, i did once carry out a two year experiment in creating a tulpa of Clark Ashton Smith's Atlach-Nacha in a celler in Leeds n the 1990s.
The writer and producer wanted to get the following actors for Three Men Seeking Monsters
Simon Pegg as Nick Redfern
Nick Frost as Jon Downes
Bill Baily as me
The script was finnihed some months ago after the writer's strike ended. It's now being looked at by the studio. Hope the real 'us' get cameos.
 

Anome

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Good casting.

Although, to be fair, I don't know if I've ever seen Nick Redfern. Also, I don't think I've seen Nick Frost be quite as ...is "bombastic" the right word?...as Jon seems to be.

Bill Bailey as you, though...that seems almost too obvious.
 

Bigfoot73

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I know Jon Downes is not much enamoured of people drawing comparisons between him and Robbie Coltrane a la Harry Potter mode, but really he would be optimum IMHO.
To guarantee that adequate levels of bombasticity were reached, there's always Brian Blessed .
How about Tim Roth for Nick R ?
 

GNC

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Anome_ said:
Although, to be fair, I don't know if I've ever seen Nick Redfern.
There's a little picture of him at the end of his Bigfoot convention article in this month's FT.
 

lordmongrove

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Nick sort of looks like the bald guy from The Hills Have Eyes and One Flew Over the Coockoo's Nest.
 

amarok2005

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The excerpt from Three Men Seeking Beer I mean, Monsters :) in FT 187 is presented without any indication that the book is fiction. I guess someone has to ask eventually: Are Nick's newer crypto books, Memoirs of a Monster Hunter and There's Something in the Woods genuine memoirs? Certainly the interviews with Linda Godfrey and others would make me hope so.
 

NickRedfern

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3 Men

Hey Guys:

This is Nick Redfern.

To address the comments people have made:

Ironically, Colin Perks (in the Glastonbury Gargoyle story; the validity of which is questioned in this thread) is a very skilled artist. He actually had to sign a waiver with the publisher (who dealt with him direct) to allow some of his artwork to be used. In the end, the publisher decided not to use any artwork - I think for budget reasons. In other words, whether we accept his story or not, he told it, and the publisher liaised with him direct.

Also re Perks: whether we believe his story or not, if you go towards the end of the book, I relate an account of how Perks supposedly photographed a sea-serpent in the River Thames, and that he sent me the photo. Now, we can debate whether or not the photo shows a sea-serpent or a log (I think the latter - a log), but it does exist and can be found at this link at my blog:

http://monsterusa.blogspot.com/2007/07/ ... hames.html

3 Men is very different to all my other books. 3 Men is a Gonzo story. The back cover (no less!) of the book describes it as being "...uniquely Gonzo." The press-release describes it as "...a Gonzo trek and an equally Gonzo story." In EVERY interview I have ever done for the book, I have specifically said it's a Gonzo story. There's a very good reason why the publisher did this - to stress it's Gonzo and not straightforward non-fiction.

Wikipedia describes Gonzo (accurately) as:

"Gonzo journalism is a style of journalism which is written subjectively, often including the reporter as part of the story via a first person narrative. Gonzo journalism tends to favor style over accuracy and often uses personal experiences and emotions to provide context for the topic or event being covered. It disregards the 'polished' edited product favored by newspaper media and strives for the gritty factor. Use of quotations, sarcasm, humor, exaggeration, and even profanity is common."

I have always been a big fan of Gonzo journalism and always wanted to do my own Gonzo story - which 3 Men is. There's nothing being hidden by that. I have always stressed the fact of what the book is.

So, yes (as per any Gonzo story) there are exaggerations, recreated conversations to add (hopefully) entertainment and humour, name changes, changes in character description, timelines - but still using real people and real events.

Gavin Addis, for example (one of the people in the book) had to provide a waiver agreement, as I did not present him in a good light. Same for Morris Allen. who I equally denounced.

In the same way that Hunter S. Thompson wrote Gonzo, so did Jack Kerouac (although the term wasn't used back then to describe his work - and I wouldn't even dream of putting myself on a par with them!). A lot of people think Kerouac's books are straightforward non-fiction. They're not. They are based on real events, recreated with name changes, changes in timelines, changes in description of characters, new dialogue etc etc.

That's all typical of a Gonzo story. And, again, I never avoided saying 3 Men was Gonzo. I've said so on at least 30 radio shows. It's only now, however, that I've seen this post and so felt the need to comment specifically here too now.

As for my all my other books: yes, they are all strictly non-Gonzo; and that is the truth. But, as someone who loves Gonzo, I wanted to try that for myself. Some people liked the book, others didn't. But that's how it goes. And there's no deceit here. I wanted to write a Gonzo book, and then after I did so, I went back to my normal writing.

Everyone cited in my "Memoirs of a Monster Hunter" was interviewed on-tape, or via extensive notes etc, and there's no Gonzo there. Same for "Man-Monkey" and "There's Something in the Woods."

Now, some people see Gonzo stories as being more fiction that fact; which is why if you type into Google "Three men seeking monsters novel" you'll see it referred (in links going back YEARS) as a "novel" or "cult novel." It isn't; but some people do see Gonzo as being closer to novel form than non-fiction.

The thing to remember is that Gonzo is a style all of its own, outside of conventional non-fiction and fiction.

Consider, too Keel's "The Mothman Prophecies." Several editions of that book (including, most recently I think, the Feb 2002 edition of the book published by Tor, to coincide with the release of the Hollywood film version) include the following at the beginning: "This is a work of fiction. All the characters and events portrayed in this book are either products of the author's imagination or are used fictitiously."

Of course, the cases are real, and the people are real in Keel's book. But Keel too employed Gonzo-style tools to tell his story. That statement at the start of his book is no accident.

In the same way that my book is described (on the back-cover no less) as a Gonzo story is no accident, and the words of the press release calling it a Gonz story are no accident, and in all my interviews describing the book as a Gonzo story is no accident.

So Keel's statement is there for the very same reason: to ensure the reader knows what they are reading and its style and nature.
 

OneWingedBird

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That may be a board record for the most uses of the word 'gonzo' in one post.
 

titch

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I really enjoyed 3msm even though i did find it really hard to believe...now i know i wasnt meant to believe, i would enjoy reading it again if it hadnt been ate by a chinchilla.
 

NickRedfern

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Titch

I wouldn't say you weren't meant to believe. To stress: the cases in the book ARE indeed all real, as are ALL the people. It's just Gonzo'd up as per my first post.

As you will have noted also from my earlier post: Colin Perks (in the Glastonbury gargoyle chapter) had to liaise with the publisher direct in the event they wanted to use his artwork, and those whose cases I used signed waivers.

In other words, they're all real interviewees - there's just that transition from telling their accounts in a straightforward non-fiction fashion to a Gonzo fashion. But the accounts stand.
 

Bigfoot73

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Welcome! And thank you for the clarification.
Likewise ! I've read and re-read "Three Men..." and always thought the characters real and the stories genuine.
What a typical Fortean conundrum this turned out to be: some thought it 100% true, some 100% fiction, and the truth turns out to be something else again!
The important thing is that the main piece of evidence in the public domain for the existence of wildmen on Dartmoor is as valid as it originally seemed, and Glastonbury Tor may yet be the entrance to the underworld.
Perhaps now people will consider forays to Dartmoor, it would be a helluva story. :D ;)
 

NickRedfern

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Bigfoot 73:

Yes, the characters and events/incidents/cases are real. Colin Perks: real chap, real name, signed a waiver etc, as per my above posts. So, yes: the Glastonbury Gargoyle story still could stand as real - if he's to be believed in his account. There's very, very little Gonzo in that chapter: his account is near-100 per cent as he related it in its original form.

Same for the Dartmoor wildman story - that story was in circulation back in '82 around Starcross.

Also: you'll recall the "Avebury Worm" story chapter. After a lot of digging, I finally found in the National Archive the official RAF report on that case a few months ago. So, again, Malcolm Lees (the RAF chap): real chap, real file, not too much Gonzo in that section.

But again, i would not want people to get the wrong idea of the book: I ALWAYS promoted it as a Gonzo story, as did the publisher, and I was one of the people who insisted that the back-cover and the press-release pointed out it was a Gonzo story, and stressed that in all interviews.

And to stress also finally: the cases and people are all real - with some definitive Gonzo applications. But still all real.
 

Bigfoot73

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Forgot about the worms! RAF report too, good stuff!

I always felt puzzled by how Colin Perks thought he could discover the location of Arthur's tomb by studying clues in monuments built long before Arthur's time. The Arthur legends are supposed to have evolved out of an older strand of Celtic myth, so perhaps that is what he was onto. Maybe he was covering his tracks so as not to bring the government or the gargoyle down on him again.
It's the weirdest story in the book but it's hard to conceive of how he might have invented it only to go to such lengths to stand by it for no publicity or financial gain.

It's reassuring to know all's still weird with the world.
 

NickRedfern

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B73: You're absolutely right. Perks got nothing, aside from suspicions from people that he was mad! LOL. My own is that he definitely believed his story - there's no doubt about that in my mind at all. And, who knows: after all, it's not that different to the Mothman and Owlman accounts. So, I don't dismiss it - or him - at all.

But it's the same with his "Sea serpent" pic that I linked to in my earlier message: it's as controversial as his story.

I have, since publication of the book, received 3 other reports of "winged-things" around Glastonbury, so it's not a dead case.
 

Bigfoot73

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Never knew what to make of Mothman, I've always found the UFO and Thunderbird content of Keel's book more interesting.
IMHO Owlman was Doc Shiels in fancy dress.

Three more sightings of possible gargoyles brings the story out of the realms of Perks's imagination and into everyday reality. He seemed genuinely scared, he can't have been out for fame and fortune, and now corroborative testimony too.
It's an awesome story, you could almost wish he was making it up!
 

danny_cogdon

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Nick, I don't give a f**k whether it was Gonzo or not!

It was a bloody good read and thank you for writing it!

I don't think there has been any other book in the last 3 decades that I have read cover to cover without putting it down.

Keep up the good work, mate!
 

titch

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It WAS a bloody good read,stupid bloody chinchilla liked it as well.
 

amarok2005

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Quick! While we still have Nick’s attention – about those worms:

Bernhardt J. Hurwood wrote many occult/folklore/fortean books for young adults in the 60s and 70s. One story he ran in at least 3 books was called “The Maggot of Death” or “Doom”. It became well known enough that Alfred Hitchcock once cited it as one of the most terrifying items he had ever read. It seems that this Thing appeared many years ago in a small Yorkshire village:

It was first seen on a clear moonlit night by the local postman, a man named Mullins. He was on his way home at the time and passing the graveyard, when he noticed a huge, luminous white object that seemed to be oozing from the grave of a recently buried Mr. Peters. It wriggled about like a gigantic worm. Horrified yet fascinated all at once, Mullins stood and stared at the thing in disbelief. As his eyes became more accustomed to the gloom he soon realized that what he saw was apparently a monster sized maggot that glowed like some hideous, gargantuan glow worm. Most disconcerting of all were its eyes. They were malignant, vicious, and eerie, for there was a decidedly human look to them. It glided over the ground with the rippling motion of a caterpillar and left in its wake a saliva-like trail of slime, similar to that deposited by snails or slugs.
The maggot crawled out of the cemetery, headed straight for the vicarage, and disappeared on the threshold. The horrified postman ran home, telling only his wife and best friend what he’d seen.

Mullins, his wife and his friend staked out the cemetery that night, and, yes, the Maggot of Death billowed out of the earth again. It crawled to the vicarage a second time and vanished. The next day the vicar and his entire family died of a “violent illness.”

The trio watched the graveyard again the next night. The Maggot obligingly appeared, rippling through the village to the house of the local blacksmith, who died of the strange illness the next day.

Mullins and his companions kept to their nightly vigil, but the monster did not show up for a week. Just as they were about to call off their watch, it appeared. “This time, to their horror, it went straight to the Mullins' own house. The next day their only child, a five year old boy, was seized with a violent fit of vomiting and died within an hour after the attack.”

The Mullins and their friend returned to the cemetery once again. This time they dug up Peters’ grave, dragged the body in its coffin to an open field, soaked both in kerosene, and burned it all. “To make certain that they had eliminated the source of the malignancy they returned to the graveyard for a number of nights afterwards, but the ghastly maggot was never seen again.”

Hurwood, like Frank Edwards and others, took accounts from various sources and digested them down to one or two pages. I’ve identified many of his stories as coming from Elliott O’Donnell, Phantasms of the Living, Montague Summers, etc. But I have no idea where he got the “Maggot of Death.” I’ve been inclined to say he made that one up – but after reading about the underground wormy-things in Three Men, maybe he didn’t.

Any idea as to the original source for the Maggot of Death? Nick or anybody else?
 

Bigfoot73

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This isn't going to help clarify things in the slightest, but when "Three Men..." first came out a friend claimed that Wiltshire had a history of people finding mysterious patches of slime. No references I'm afraid.
Does anybody remember the Jon Pertwee Dr Who story involving maggoty things down a coal mine, exuding lethal slime ? Perhaps the scriptwriters borrowed the slimy maggots from Hurwood's tale, but somewhere somehow an association between maggots/worms and slime developed.
Personally I can't think of any worms or maggots, or indeed anything other than slugs and snails or directors of banks that exude slime of any sort.
Perhaps there is something in the old myths and legends, seeing as it was seen at a stone circle.
 
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