WWI Battlefield Ghosts

[taras]

You may find the story in "Hauntings and Apparitions" by Andrew McKenzie (Heinemann/SPR 1982) about two ladies staying in a hotel in, I think, Normandy, and being kept awake by 'echoes' of a military battle interesting.

 

[lupinwick]

Regardless of the thoughts on how ghosts are recorded, you would expect more activity given how many men were slaughtered.

OK, they were soliders and used to death and (on the whole) accepted death, so perhaps the hospitals where the badly wounded went would show more ghostly activity.

It may well be to do with attitudes as well, Sassoon, Owen and Graves give the impression that to them the war was more real than civilian life, that in the trenches they were able to at least help and look after the troops. The rabidness of the civilians (white feathers to serving troops out of uniform, lies about the war etc.) seemed unreal.

Sassoon also hints that the hallucinations he had in Craiglockhart (dead comrades asking where he is) disappeared once he had decided to return to the front.

On a second note, I do remember reading a long time ago, accounts by a medium of contact with the spirits of the troops who died, which indicates that as they went over the top and got killed, they just continued walking into a whole new landscape - not realising they had been killed. I'll have to try and find the book now :?

 

[OldTimeRadio]

"You may find the story in 'Hauntings and Apparitions' by Andrew McKenzie (Heinemann/SPR 1982) about two ladies staying in a hotel in, I think, Normandy, and being kept awake by 'echoes' of a military battle interesting."

There was also an article about this in FATE magazine in the late 1950s.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

"It may well be to do with attitudes as well, Sassoon, Owen and Graves give the impression that to them the war was more real than civilian life...."

This was also true of the American Civil War of 1861-1865. For the farm boys who fought on both sides of that conflict, and who had never previously been more than 10 or 20 miles from home, the War was suddenly heightened reality. For the survivors, many of whom lived down to the 1920s, 1930s and even 1940s, the War remained the single Great Adventure of their lives.

 

[PlagueRider]

"You may find the story in 'Hauntings and Apparitions' by Andrew McKenzie (Heinemann/SPR 1982) about two ladies staying in a hotel in, I think, Normandy, and being kept awake by 'echoes' of a military battle interesting."

There was also an article about this in FATE magazine in the late 1950s.

I believe I've heard about this - and thanks to you both for jogging my memory!

 

[zygmunt_rocks_on]

You may find the story in "Hauntings and Apparitions" by Andrew McKenzie (Heinemann/SPR 1982) about two ladies staying in a hotel in, I think, Normandy, and being kept awake by 'echoes' of a military battle interesting.

I've read that... though as i remember it, it was a re-enactment of the ill-starred Dieppe Raid of 1942 (though how they could discern that, I don't know)


There's also been at least one sighting of a D-Day era landing craft seen in the sea off one of the invasion beaches... it was flying the flag of the Free French Army (The Cross Of Lorraine).

Back to WW1... and not a haunted battlefield as such, but I remember reading an account of someone seeing the ghost of a WW1 'tommy' on a station platform somewhere in the UK. It wasn't raining, but the soldier was wearing a gas cape with water dripping off the points of it.


Incidentally, in Goodbye To All that, Robert Graves recalls digging a trench and finding a Brown Bess musket lost by one of Wellington's troops a hundred or so years before!

on this site:
http://theshadowlands.net/places/france.htm

There are a couple of vague reports at Vimy Ridge:

Vimey Ridge - One student tells of hearing the sounds of the war. Another described being grabbed by someone who looked like they were in a period movie about the site and being told to "run for your life you stupid kid" and being shoved towards the tunnel exit. As they were exiting the tunnel, yet another student tells of seeing, in plain daylight, a soldier stepping on a land mine and then nothing.

Vimy Ridge - Canadian trenches - Soldiers have been awoken by the sounds of heavy breathing and gear rustling, we where startled and amazed to see a German soldier in full ww1 combat gear attempting to "stick" them with a bayonet.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

A point I've made earlier on this thread is that perhaps ghosts are unneccessary when the dead have not been forgotten.

This got me thinking of "Uncle Sam," who was a living, breathing human being - Uncle Sam Wilson, the quartermaster general of the US Army during the War of 1812.

I don't know of a single account of Uncle Sam Wilson's ghost ever being reported.

But his "ghost" has apeared in countless plays, movies, radio and television dramas, novels, magazine articles, comic strips, comic books, political cartoons, military recruiting posters (especially during the First World War), patriotic airs, even newspaper advertizements. He's a household phrase: "I just got a tax refund from Uncle Sam." George M. Cohan sang: "I'm a real, live nephew of my Uncle Sam, born on the Fourth of July." Just about every patriotic parade has a costumed Uncle Sam (very often on STILTS!) and kids dress up as him on Halloween. There's even a Christmas print of Uncle Sam kneeling with Mary and Joseph and the shepherds at the creche. It's difficult for the average American to spend a week without seeing his picture, two or three days without hearing the words.

Maybe that's sufficient for Sam Wilson? Maybe that's "ghost" enough?

So just as long as those First World War dead are not forgotten, and so far they haven't been.

 

[lupinwick]

So just as long as those First World War dead are not forgotten, and so far they haven't been.

So far. Certainly in the UK, WW1 is mystery territory for schoolkids. The scale of the horror is difficult kids to comprehend, I tell people that the number of casualties incurred during the first hours of the Somme battle probably exceeds the population of our local town now, terrifying.

Lessons have been and are still being learnt from WW1.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Within the past 20 years there has been a real effort in the United States (and I believe in Canada, too) to refurbish and rehabilitate the hundreds of public "memorial buildings" which were erected in the 1920s in honor of both the dead and the living veterans of the Great War, with many of those buildings growing threadbare and seedy over the past half-century.

Part of this was doubtless inspired by the fact that there were few if any memorial buildings erected after World War Two, Korea, Vietnam and so on and thus the First World War buildings could serve for all.

But that's the kind of compromise of which the military dead will likely approve.

 

[zygmunt_rocks_on]

Likewise, almost every community in the UK, no matter how small, will have a WW1 memorial with more names added after WW2, and often from subsequent conflicts (1967 being the only year a British serviceman or servicewoman hasn't been killed in action).

WW1 is treated as a tragedy in the way WW2 (a clear-cut war against tyranny) isn't in popular culture... "Lions Led By Donkeys", the tragedy of the Pals Battalions, men with shellshock being shot for cowardice, kicking footballs across no-mans land on the first day of the battle of the Somme...

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Confederate Dead

There have been some remarkable photographs and films taken over the past decade featuring reburials of skeletonized Civil War soldiers excavated from battlefields and identified through personal artifacts or DNA testing.

When one set of remains was returned to South Carolina it was met by a Confederate honor guard - a long and impressive line of infantry and calvarymen in grey uniforms.

But another skeleton could not be identified and it was reburied as BOTH Union AND Condederate, with appropriate military honors. A photograh showed the last two Confederate war widows (in wheelchairs) linking hands over the new grave. Each widow also held the hand of a Union or Confederate "general." Each general clasped the hand of his own troopers, whose own hand was in one of his comrade's and so on.

There were no visible ghosts in these photograpphs. But anybody who can't at least SENSE them surely isn't trying very hard.

 

[lupinwick]

Likewise, almost every community in the UK, no matter how small, will have a WW1 memorial with more names added after WW2, and often from subsequent conflicts (1967 being the only year a British serviceman or servicewoman hasn't been killed in action).

WW1 is treated as a tragedy in the way WW2 (a clear-cut war against tyranny) isn't in popular culture... "Lions Led By Donkeys", the tragedy of the Pals Battalions, men with shellshock being shot for cowardice, kicking footballs across no-mans land on the first day of the battle of the Somme...

True, even a hamlet with 2 streets will have a war memorial. However little seems to be done to maintain these monuments or ensure that the memory never fades. OT I know.

 

[escargot]

So just as long as those First World War dead are not forgotten, and so far they haven't been.

So far. Certainly in the UK, WW1 is mystery territory for schoolkids.

WW1 is covered in the National Curriculum. All high schools cover it in detail, and many have 'Battlefield' trips where they visit various war sites and military cemeteries.

The students are encouraged to ask around their families for the names of soldiers who died in the war and to research their graves and regimental monuments, which can be visited as part of the experience.

It makes a big impression on them. 8)

 

[lupinwick]

I stand (or perhaps sit) corrected

Glad to hear the kids are learning about it - now if only the councils would look after the memorials.

 

[zygmunt_rocks_on]

True, even a hamlet with 2 streets will have a war memorial. However little seems to be done to maintain these monuments or ensure that the memory never fades. OT I know.

I can't say that's my experience... I've found that the smaller the community, the more immaculate the memorial. Also, I've noticed that war memorials are often the only feature in modern towns to escape vandalism. Where we live, in inner London about the only place locally that isn't smothered with graffiti is the memorial.

Having said that, the memorial in Keighley, West Yorkshire a town of 60,000 that lost more than its fair share of its best youth in WW1, has recently been damaged by local retards using it as a 'skate park' :furious:

 

[zygmunt_rocks_on]

You may find the story in "Hauntings and Apparitions" by Andrew McKenzie (Heinemann/SPR 1982) about two ladies staying in a hotel in, I think, Normandy, and being kept awake by 'echoes' of a military battle interesting.

dug this out of Fortean Times issue 28 (yes... twenty eight!). I've typed it out directly, so please forgive typos.

'In The Daily Express for mid August 1978, appeared a letter from a Mrs Helen Griffifth, who said that while crossing the English Channel in 1977 she "heard" the sounds of a WW2 sea battle. It may have been since there is a strong tradition on the French Coast that on the anniversary of the 19 august 1942 storming of Dieppe, the pahntom sounds of the battle can be heard in an eerie replay. The phenomenon was studied by the SPR in 1952, and a useful summary appears in the Readers Digest Strange Stories: Amazing Facts (1975) p384f"

Sorry to drift off topic, but there's also another bit I found interesting. A patrol of the British Army's Green Howards picked up a radio message in the Borneo Jungle in the mid 60s. They couldn't decipher it, so gave it to Intelligence who found it was a long-discarded code last used during an action in Borneo in WW2.

 

[escargot]

Our local war memorial is in the process of being moved from one square to another, after a long and bitter campaign by some residents to keep it in its original place.

It was supposed to be lifted by crane last week but was found to be fastened down somehow with steel rods, so it took longer than expected and there is a rumour that it cracked.

I have photos of course.

My point?
Oh yes.

There was a lot of local anger about moving the memorial. One of the reasons is that for some war dead, a public memorial is their only commemoration, if they have been lost at sea or their body has not been recovered.

I wonder if we will start hearing 'restless spirit' stories now?

 

[JurekB]

Here is an interesting piece about ghosts from the Warsaw Uprising of 1944.

http://homepage.virgin.net/martin.farncombe/ghost_archive/ghosthtm/Warsaw.htm

Considering that around 3000 soldiers and civilians were killed every day for 60 days and many are still buried beneath the streets, you'd think there would be more of this sort of thing. I go to Warsaw a couple of times a year and I've never experienced anything.

Then again the Uprising is well remembered and there are plaques all over the city stating how many people died in any given location. I've visitied other WW2 battlefields including Normandy and Monte Cassino and I never felt anything unusual at all.

Are there any reports of ghosts at former concentration camp sites?

 

[zygmunt_rocks_on]

talking of Poland:

My post frrom here:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewt ... ight=katyn

an aquaintance of mine was driving through part of Katyn Forest, near Smolensk, a few years ago... scene of the mass murder of Polish army officers during WW2. He was listening to music on the radio, which was suddenly interrupted by the sounds of gunfire, shouting and screaming, which went on for several terrifying minutes (he was driving in pitch darkness) before the music resumed. He claims it wasn't part of the radio show. Later the same night (and still in the forest), he stopped for a rest and became aware of three gaunt figures staring at him from the edge of the tree line, dressed in what looked like ragged army clothing, and looking "really, really sad" (as he put it). They might just have been tramps, but he didn't hang around after that.

Are there any reports of ghosts at former concentration camp sites?

Found this:
http://www.castleofspirits.com/Australi ... hwitz.html

(looks like a simulacrum to me)

and from http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/11-20-2005-81901.asp

"Kramer was camp commandant. Grese was so steeped in blood that a legend persists of her ghost haunting a building on the site of Belsen in the former east Germany. In 1992, after the fall of the Berlin wall, researchers were given permission to spend the night there. But, according to the museum, they failed to last the night. "

[/b][/quote]

 

[fishersghost]

I don't know about Concentration camp ghosts, but I do remember when I was at University speaking to a guy whose family was Polish and had lost family members in the camps (as did my family) and he told me that he had visited Belsen and what struck him as odd was that no living creatures will venture into the camp, yet the area around the camp is teeming with wildlife. Even birds refuse to fly directly over it. He said the place had a very oppressive atmosphere and that he broke down and sobbed like a baby.

I don't know of any WW1 ghost stories (although I should as Ghosts and WW1 are both big interests of mine), but Australia has its far share of WW2 aviation ghost stories. I live in Brisbane which during WW2 was the HQ for the Pacific War (Macarthur's HQ still exists) not only was this place packed with US,British,Australian and other allied servicemen, but
the pacific equivalent of Bletchley Park where the allies monitored and cracked Japanese codes is an old mansion in the Brisbane Suburb of Ascot and it still exists( not many people know of its role).


Anyway there was a hell of a lot going on here in WW2 and things got ugly from time to time i.e the Battle of Brisbane where hundreds of US and Aussie troops fought a bloody riot against each other . One person was killed and dozens injured. I often wonder if this spot might have recorded any energy from that night.

And then there are the ghosts. It is often mentioned that the sound of two men fighting can be heard in the Red Cross lounge that still exists today in the City hall . it is rumoured that it is two US sailors who had a knife fight over a girl back in WW2 whuch ended in murder.

There is an Airfiled not to far from my parents called Archerfield which was set up in the 20's as Brisbane first airport, in WW2 it was an Airbase for the RAAF, RAF and USAAF. Anyway the story getting around is that it has it share of WW2 ghosts. The one that stands out is of a Young Airman in flight gear who stands on the main road quite near the gate, he has been seen by a number of people, several of which have ID him from photos taken at the time of a young RAAF pilot who crased his Aeroplane on Take off.
There are a few more relating to this airfield but the details are hazy.

Anyway given that Brisbane is acknowledged as the most haunted city in Australia it only stands to reason that there should be a few WW2 ghosts sniffing around. Despite the fact that we were never bombed in Brisbane or
had any air battles, the place had a lot of anxiety running through it an enough pissed and horny up Gi's Squaddies and Diggers to cause problems and leave a few ghosts.

There are rumours of Aircraft ghost from some of the Far North QLD and Northern Territory airfields which were full on Operational Front line Fighter and Bomber bases where actual sortes were flown and planes did not come back. I will try to track some of these down.

 

[minordrag]

"If, as is generally accepted, a ghost is a some combination of intense emotion, unfinished business, and ignorance of death...."

But that's the ONE thing the fighting men on both sides were NOT ignorant of - DEATH. They lived, wrote letters home, ate and slept right next to their dead and badly decaying comrades. They knew full well that their own deaths might be just more statistics and that those odiferous friends with whom they shared their muddy home could well be them in a few more days or weeks.

What I was saying, badly, was that one theory is that the spook is not aware that he/she is a decedent, and therefore carries on as usual.

Nice to see this thread has some life in it, though!

 

[illuminati37411]

First, Hi, I'm new.

I've lived on the site of a famous American civil war battle for over 25 years. Once I heard one long bloodcurdling scream from woods behind my house at dusk. It made the hair stand up on my neck but no one was there as far as I could tell. And once a tremendous explosion in the middle of the night that no one else in the house heard! I was up reading after midnight, and it literally lifted the sofa I was sitting on up about an inch. Years later, I finally read a book about the battle - defeated Confederate soldiers ran down the ridge at dusk, and were pursued and killed right where I live. Also, before the battle, in the wee hours, the cannon were taken up by horses, once again right by where I live. The explosion I heard seemed to come from below my house, which is perched on stilts on the side of the ridge. And I didn't keep records, but I believe that both occurances happened around the anniversary of the battle, in late Nov.

 

[escargot]

I visited Auschwitz a couple of years ago and was struck by the lack of birds in the place.

It was March, and perishing cold, but there were still several coachloads of visitors and lots of smaller groups. Everywhere else I've been where there have been tourists, I've seen birds gathering at a discreet distance ready to scoop up food scraps. I saw none at all there.

It was eerie to see what looked like miles of fencing and cable, perfect for roosting, with not a single bird.

Many visitors pulled food out to eat as they walked, as they do everywhere, but there were no hungry birds watching. Plenty in the trees and on the posts outside though.

I didn't know that there were supposed to be no birds there until after my visit but it tallied exactly with what we'd seen.

 

[HelzAngel]

First, Hi, I'm new.

I've lived on the site of a famous American civil war battle for over 25 years. .

You're braver than I am, I've only visited a couple of ACW battlefields, but you wouldn't catch me livinging near one

 

[Littlegreylady]

I visited Buchenwald Concentration camp a few years ago (June 2001). It was a really warm weekend and I had spent the weekend with friends in Weimar. They had an open museums Saturday and all museums in the area were free and open until Midnight. BUchenwald was one of these.

We decided not to go at night (the whole thought just creeped me out - more so than visiting it in the first place).

So we went the next day, another really warm weekend and whilst walking through the memorial gardens, we all noticed the lack of birds. On the other hand, I have never seen so many wildflowers before - they were everywhere.

To be honest I found the whole atmosphere to be horribly repressive - but that came more from myself and the knowledge of what I was seeing rather than anything supernatural. The only fortean event to speak of really was when we were walking through the crematorium. SInce Buchenwald was a work camp, there were only two ovens. Walking past them, you go down some stairs into another room. Strangely as I walked into this room, underneath the ovens, the atmosphere became worse. Not only that but I got a real sense of something terrible. This seemed to come from the room, not from myself. I thought this was odd as surely the room with the ovens would be like this? It turned out that the room I was in was where the bodies were stored - the "mortury cellar". And sometimes people were in there who were still alive.
I don't know why I felt something so strongly in this room, but I didn't stay in it to find out.

 

[illuminati37411]

Helzangel said: You're braver than I am, I've only visited a couple of ACW battlefields, but you wouldn't catch me livinging near one."

Missionary Ridge is a busy city residential neighborhood, with monuments and cannon scattered beside the very narrow road which runs along the crest. So it doesn't feel spooky, like living near Chicamauga or Vicksburg or Shiloh might. I have visited those and they are quiet parks, where one might be more likely to notice a ghost.

p.s. I should have put this on "Southern Haunts" I guess. Sorry. Please bear with me -- I will figure it all out eventually.

 

[Sabresonic]

No Ghosts in Pompeii ?

 

[Mythopoeika]

No Ghosts in Pompeii ?

They'd just look like ghost statues.