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Zeitoun Apparitions

Looks like a negative of an image! Big blackbird is my guess, cool though. :)
 
I'm always suprised that the events at Zeitoun aren't more widely known. One has to take into account that such an event took place in a predominantly non-Christian country, which makes it more unusual. Still, makes a change from sightings of the Virgin Mary standing in a tree, or the more unusual sightings at Fatima.
 
The only scientific take I've seen on this "bunch of arse" is:
Derr, John S., and Persinger, Michael A.; "Temporal Association between the Zeitoun Luminous Phenomena and Regional Seismic Activity," The Explorer, 4:15, October 1987

A summary of which is at:

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf055/sf055p16.htm

The scientists here, interestingly, did not attempt to deny that the phenomena materialised. Taking that fact as proven, they were seeking to explain the cause of the phenomena. The seismic activity was apparently 400km from Zeitoun.

Apparently the photos have stood up to scrutiny, as well as the documented investigation by the Egyptian police who failed to find projection equipment in the church or in a 15 mile radius around the church. The apparitions themselves were illegal under Egyptian law, as were the religious activies of the crowds that they gathered (Christian religious activities being illegal outside of the confines of a church building - )[hears murmurs of "proper order!"]

http://www.geocities.com/area51/shadowlands/5318/mary.htm

Having been brought up as a Catholic from Irish stock myself, I was particularly interested in the fact that this apparition on a Coptic church roof (unlike the seemingly endless monologues of appartitions to Catholics) didn't say a peep. It also differs from the Catholic apparitions in that there was not a single or select group of visionaries (subjective), but the phenomena were witnessed by millions over a period of two years - all who came saw, press and police included (objective). In addition to being photographed, they were filmed for TV.
 
Zeitoun Apparitions

Seems like a photo-manip of an Escher print. With the added Glow, Cross and 'bird? Please, life is hard enough, don't make it any worse.....lol :p

:!
 
Hospitaller said:
The only scientific take I've seen on this "bunch of arse" is:
Derr, John S., and Persinger, Michael A.; "Temporal Association between the Zeitoun Luminous Phenomena and Regional Seismic Activity," The Explorer, 4:15, October 1987
Click to expand...

Of course, Dr. Persinger means "temporal" as in the temporal region of one's brain. His ongoing studies seem to indicate that electro-magetism does influence human perception, and in big ways.

The luminous figure may be a plasma. The photos at http://www.zeitun-eg.org/stmary9.htm are very plasma-like. The full-blown figure over the church has, without doubt, been doctored, perhaps by well-meaning people.
 
Zeitoun Display

Hundreds of photographs have been taken of the Zeitoun phenomena and the light displays have been personally witnessed by uncounted thousands of individuals. I believe the lights have also been extensively filmed and videotaped.

Likewise, the light displays don't seem to be the product of any type of modern illumination technology rigged up to hoodwink the multitudes.

In short, Zeitoun seems to be one of the whitest white crow cases we have.

My skeptical friends dismiss Zeitoun as merely techtonic energies "somehow reflected from or transmitted from" a geological stress fault many miles away, as if this "explanation" actually EXPLAINS anything rather than heightening the mystery.

I point out to them that they spent decades claiming that the entire idea of "earthquake lights" was just a paranormalist fantasy.
 
Jerry_B said:
"One has to take into account that such an event took place in a predominantly non-Christian country, which makes it more unusual."

I believe it was C. S. Lewis who pointed out that Islam is much more correctly described (from an orthodox, mainstream Christian viewpoint) as a "Christian heresy" than as "non-Christian." A religion which teaches that Jesus Christ is the highest created being (although not God) and who will in fact return in glory at the End Times to judge the living and the dead is hardly "non-Christian" in the sense of, say, Hinduism or Shintoism. In fact, the Christology of the Muslims rather resembles that of the Jehovah's Witnesses, usually considered a "Christian heresy."

And Muslims have always held an very high regard for Christ's earthly mother, so I assume that many Muslims came to view the Zeitoun lights - probably more Muslims than Christians.
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Forgot all about this thread! Must look for anything new on this on the net. In the meantime...

ElishevaBarsabe wrote:

Of course, Dr. Persinger means "temporal" as in the temporal region of one's brain.
Click to expand...

although Persinger is perhaps most commonly known for his work around electromagnetic energy and the brains of rats, mice and humans, the reference to "temporal" in the article referred to above is actually a reference to the passage of time. IIRC he found that the Zeitoun apparitions of 1968 and 1969 were followed around about a year later by a tenfold increase in seismic activity about 250 miles to the southeast.
 
Hospitaller said:
Forgot all about this thread! Must look for anything new on this on the net. In the meantime...

ElishevaBarsabe wrote:

Of course, Dr. Persinger means "temporal" as in the temporal region of one's brain.
Click to expand...

although Persinger is perhaps most commonly known for his work around electromagnetic energy and the brains of rats, mice and humans, the reference to "temporal" in the article referred to above is actually a reference to the passage of time. IIRC he found that the Zeitoun apparitions of 1968 and 1969 were followed around about a year later by a tenfold increase in seismic activity about 250 miles to the southeast.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information!

Saw an earthquake light once myself -- wow! Bright light near the ground, then rumbling. Fortunately, the quake was a small one.
 
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I'll bump this thread, seeing as it's today's On This Day feature ;)

3 April. In 1968 two auto mechanics saw during the night the figure of a woman in white on the dome of the Church of St Mary opposite their garage in Zeitoun, a northern suburb of Cairo. As the figure was holding onto a stone cross, they thought she was going to jump and summoned the priest and the emergency services. As everyone found out soon enough, it was the Virgin Mary returning to Egypt. For a year, hundreds of thousands of people of diverse faiths witnessed her and other weird manifestations. Many took photographs.
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Comprehensive site here - zeitun-eg.net
 
Hospitaller said:
"IIRC he [Dr. Persinger] found that the Zeitoun apparitions of 1968 and 1969 were followed around about a year later by a tenfold increase in seismic activity about 250 miles to the southeast."
Click to expand...

Does this "explain" the Zeitoun apparitions (as some skeptics have maintained) or does it instead immeasurably heighten their paranormalty?
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Hospitaller said:
"IIRC he [Dr. Persinger] found that the Zeitoun apparitions of 1968 and 1969 were followed around about a year later by a tenfold increase in seismic activity about 250 miles to the southeast."
Click to expand...

Does this "explain" the Zeitoun apparitions (as some skeptics have maintained) or does it instead immeasurably heighten their paranormalty?
Click to expand...
As far as I'm concerned, this is no 'explanation' of anything whatsoever.

There's no immediate link betwen the events, and they're well apart geographically too. Given the general amount of unpredictable seismic activity around the world, the chances of an increase in it within a few hundred miles of any event must be almost 100%.

If I break wind loudly now, and this is "followed around about a year later by a tenfold increase in seismic activity about 250 miles" away, does this prove a link? I don' think sooo..!

To quote somebody far wiser than me, "Shit happens"! ;)
 
I just searched for this historical set of phenomena on FTMB, after getting pleasurably lost in the internet for a couple of hours last week after reading up on Marian apparitions.

Trusty Wikipedia summarises it well:

"Our Lady of Zeitoun, also known simply as El-Zeitoun, Zeitun or rarely Our Lady of Light, was a mass Marian apparition that occurred in the Zeitoun district of Cairo, Egypt, over a period of 2–3 years beginning on April 2, 1968"

What seems to mark this as somewhat different is that it involves a Coptic church, something was witnessed by hundreds of people, and most of the named witnesses (Including President Nasser) are Muslims. It was also photographed and filmed on different days.

It soesn't seem to made much of a news impact in Europe/USA when the 'western' news was full of assassinations and the Vietnam war.

An interesting one!

photo: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Our_Lady_of_Zeitoun_1968.jpg

Our_Lady_of_Zeitoun_1968.jpg
 
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I read that prior to this incident, about a month before, there were sightings of a big hairy man i.e. a sasquatch, in the belfry was reported. Apparently this isn't uncommon prior to sightings of the BVM.
 
AlchoPwn said:
I read that prior to this incident, about a month before, there were sightings of a big hairy man i.e. a sasquatch, in the belfry was reported. Apparently this isn't uncommon prior to sightings of the BVM.
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Now that is a truly intriguing suggestion: BHM > BVM? I'd love to hear more, in the next world if not in this. Please hold that thought as you enter the teleporter (and watch out for flies).
 
The more I look at the evidence, the more it seems that if sasquatches are real, they may well be quite talented mimics and illusionists, which means we may never have seen their true form. They might not be big hairy people at all. That might be an illusion projected to scare us. On the other hand, why summon all those people to a cathedral to see the BVM? Think of the bins overflowing with food scraps after wards!
 
Krepostnoi said:
Please hold that thought as you enter the teleporter (and watch out for flies)
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:
AlchoPwn said:
On the other hand, why summon all those people to a cathedral to see the BVM?
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There has always been a parochial economy arising from pilgrimage, from even before the very-earliest days of the Ponzi system known as 'Christianity'.

The Pokëmon outdoor mini-craze last year (where pale weak people were having out-of-car experiences) was a modern-day techno version of searching for the Grail or a new Jerusalem ('churches', businesses and hostelries en route benefitting always and ever)
 
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