Zionism, Anti-Semitism & Conspiracy Theories?

[dr wu]

Or rather, communism fails because it suppresses liberty.
Capitalism succeeds because it embraces liberty.

Or maybe it's a combination of both ideas...as to why they fail or succeed?

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Or maybe it's a combination of both ideas...as to why they fail or succeed?

I suspect the first ever capitalist was an ancestral human - possibly Habilis, Erectus or maybe even a Neanderthal, who napped some particularly good flints and managed to trade them for something he really wanted - animal skins, food, sexual favours or whatever.

I can imagine him walking back to his cave and thinking "Heh heh! Sorted! People seem to value my goods, so I'll make some more tomorrow and see what I can get for them."

This hypothetical primordial entrepreneur I've imagined was obviously aeons before the Jewish people existed as an ethnic group. Jewish people though, throughout the ages, have been perceived as being particularly intelligent, shrewd, clever and skilled at making stuff.

Hence their success provoked jealousy, leading to persecution.

 

[stu neville]

Ok, back to the thread topic now, please.

 

[dr wu]

Well....that post from cottonsocks sure sounds like a conspiracy theory to me..

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

How about I reply to spookdaddy's comment that "An anti-semite will most likely be anti-zionist but an anti-zionist does not have to be anti-semitic."?

I disagree strongly with that, as the terms are as close to synonymous as makes no difference.
Zionism means self-determination for the Jewish people. No more. No less.
In other words, it means that the Jewish people have as much right to a homeland as the British have to Britain, the French have to France or the Turks to Turkey etc.

Many who support Hamas and other militant Palestinian factions call for Palestinian statehood, but oppose zionism.

How can it not be anti-semitic to support Palestinian statehood but to oppose that same right for the Jewish people?

 

[ramonmercado]

How about I reply to spookdaddy's comment that "An anti-semite will most likely be anti-zionist but an anti-zionist does not have to be anti-semitic."?

I disagree strongly with that, as the terms are as close to synonymous as makes no difference.
Zionism means self-determination for the Jewish people. No more. No less.
In other words, it means that the Jewish people have as much right to a homeland as the British have to Britain, the French have to France or the Turks to Turkey etc.

Many who support Hamas and other militant Palestinian factions call for Palestinian statehood, but oppose zionism.

How can it not be anti-semitic to support Palestinian statehood but to oppose that same right for the Jewish people?

I support the right of Israel to exist.

I'm aware though that many Ultra-Orthodox Jews (including those living in Israel) don't. I think it's for theological reasons. Perhaps you could expand on this?

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

From what I understand Ramon, there is a tiny minority of ultra-religious Jews, who oppose the modern, secular state of Israel, because they regard it as a corrupt and political construct, rather than the divinely-given state they believe it ought to be.
Thankfully the vast majority of Israelis don't hold such views.

 

[Victory]

I support the right of Israel to exist.

I'm aware though that many Ultra-Orthodox Jews (including those living in Israel) don't. I think it's for theological reasons. Perhaps you could expand on this?

It is what @blessmycottonsocks has written.

To add a little more, some Jews believe that a Jewish State of Israel should only be allowed to exist after the Messiah has come and been accepted.
They do though in the main believe that it is good to live in Israel while they wait for the Messiah to arrive.
Some have lived there for around 200 years.

They tend to be in certain organized groups...there is a non-Hasidic group called Neturei Karta, and Hasidic groups such as Satmar and
Shomer Emunim.

As to whether many Ultra-Orthodox Jews believe this is a moot point.
My experience is that these days, many regard the State of Israel as a physical stepping-stone to the eventual theological state..i.e. quite literally the current state is a "mechanism" for building homes, railways, roads, hospitals etc that will eventually be part of an ideal state.

 

[James_H]

In 1920, Winston Churchill believed in an international Communist conspiracy of Jews stretching back to Adam Weishaupt and used its supposed existence as an argument in favour of the creation of a Zionist state. From the horse's mouth, warning in place for some rather 'dated' attitudes.

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Zionism_versus_Bolshevism