Alternative Therapy - Diet

[Tempest63]

Today is the start of week two into my slow introduction to the Autoimmune Protocol (AIP) Diet. AIP is a Paleo diet with a lot more restrictions.
This last week I have omitted certain foods but on a loose basis I haven’t completely excluded them but after a week of abstinence I ate bread, drunk coffee and had a couple of alcoholic drinks all within the space of a few days and the difference was quite catastrophic. As symptoms seem to abate very slowly you don’t really notice them not being there, then suddenly I would notice I wasn’t as bloated or inflamed, when they come back they do so with a vengeance and those few instances above resulted in a lot of discomfort and more sleepless nights.
The whole idea is to follow the diet religiously for a month then start to gradually include excluded foods, one at a time in order to identify those that affect your health. These can then be excluded for life.

The diet looked as if it was going to be an uphill battle but having bought a couple of second hand books on the protocol I think I could transition quite easily. The difficulty will be finding the time to pre-prepare food to take into work given my current busy schedule, especially breakfast. Anyone who works in a big city and those who work in construction will know most readily available food involves bread in some form and finding a food outlet that gives an alternative usually involves salad or similar, something that doesn’t appeal for breakfast.

One more week of the slow introduction and then a week off work to learn the alchemy involved in the diet and I hope to be med-free. I can’t see me back on the Guinness and curry diet again…unfortunately!

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[Min Bannister]

The difficulty will be finding the time to pre-prepare food to take into work given my current busy schedule, especially breakfast.

If you are able to find a recipe that can be frozen in portions or keep in the fridge for a few days, that would help a great deal. You could make a batch at the weekend and just grab a portion in the morning.

I hope it works for you!

 

[Floyd]

Glad to hear you're finally feeling better.

I haven't eaten cheese for 3 months now and have lost weight.
I've also not had eggs this week and feel better, so will stay off those for a while (I have been eating lots of eggs recently).
As for bread, I find that the very light and 'airy' rolls (like warburtons do) make me feel less bloated and 'heavy'.

I happen to love salad for breakfast, (not that I'd buy it out though anyway, as it is always terrible in my experience, and bloody expensive), but it isn't too time consuming to rustle up something the evening before that you can take in a cooler bag/box the next day - say some cold meat(s), raw veg (and maybe something to dip them in) and nuts/fruit etc - or whatever a paleo diet allows.

The key is to get a good sized tupperware box with different compartments in for all your produce, so you don't have to faff around with loads of them.

 

[Tempest63]

Glad to hear you're finally feeling better.

I haven't eaten cheese for 3 months now and have lost weight.
I've also not had eggs this week and feel better, so will stay off those for a while (I have been eating lots of eggs recently).
As for bread, I find that the very light and 'airy' rolls (like warburtons do) make me feel less bloated and 'heavy'.

I happen to love salad for breakfast, (not that I'd buy it out though anyway, as it is always terrible in my experience, and bloody expensive), but it isn't too time consuming to rustle up something the evening before that you can take in a cooler bag/box the next day - say some cold meat(s), raw veg (and maybe something to dip them in) and nuts/fruit etc - or whatever a paleo diet allows.

The key is to get a good sized tupperware box with different compartments in for all your produce, so you don't have to faff around with loads of them.

I have done the whole packed lunch salads before. When we both worked and there were no dogs I would prep our lunch. At this moment in time I’m doing longer hours at work plus walking the dogs whilst MrsT63 is recovery from surgery.
The easiest thing is a bit of chicken or packet of prawns, handful of rocket and an avocado. Works for me for breakfast or lunch.

 

[Analogue Boy]

I must admit, I quite like the Bear Grylls approach. One minute, you‘re wringing out the contents of a snake into your gob washed down with your own urine, next, you’re telling everyone a vegan and vegetarian diet is the best and then it turns out he’s been quite poorly because of this and has taken to wringing out a dead cow into his gob and not washing it down with his own urine.

But I can’t keep up.

 

[Tempest63]

Last nights AIP dinner was baked sea bass with four steamed veg, greens, carrots, broccoli and asparagus.
Fish was seasoned with dill, thyme, salt and pepper and lemon, then stuffed with thinly sliced shallots.
Roasted poussin tonight and some consideration as to what to prep for midweek meals.
I’ve ordered hog skins to make paleo sausages for breakfast.
I could live on food like this.

 

[AnonyJ]

It's somewhat similar to the very low carb (and hence high natural fat and protein) LCHF eating style - it's the only way I can find to lose my weight and stabilise blood sugars. Lots of above-ground veg, leaves, not much fruit, plus as much stuff like cheese, cream, unprocessed meats, fish, fats as one wishes. It gets a bit boring but I do feel better when I get back on the LCHF wagon.

I struggle with disordered eating periodically hence my health/weight issues. https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/the-obesity-epidemic.25237/page-13#post-2288302

There are several reasons, IMHO for the 'epidemic' of obesity around the world.

For the first time in human history, since the 1950s we in western Europe & north America have lived in an environment of cheap, abundant food. Food has directly swapped with rent/mortgage as a proportion of houshold expenditure in the UK - off the top of my head I believe it was 45% food : 15% rent/housing in the late 19thC-early 20thC.

Individuals who have a genetic advantage in aeons-old evolutionary terms (ie., the ability to eat more and gain weight in times of abundance and survive the next period of dearth of food) are now placed in a environment of permanent abundance. The advantage of the delayed hormonal 'off switch' (Grehlin - the 'hunger hormone') is now a huge disadvantage and results in growing numbers of people with obese bodies.

Disordered eating is now rife - EDs are not just anorexia and bulimia. Hyperphagy, ARFID (Avoidant/restrictive food intake disorder) and binge-eating disorder are common in people who are fat.

There are some genetic conditions that have hyperphagy/polyphagy (over-eating to the point of being ill) as a facet. In Prader-Willi syndrome (a genetic abnormality of chromosome 15, where there's a significant deletion) people with it are literally hungry all the time. There's a long list of genetically unalterable conditions that cause hyperphagia (AKA polyphagia) and here is a wee screengrab of the current wikipedia page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphagia :

View attachment 69280

It's interesting to note that in cases of disordered eating and genetic conditions, 'willpower' alone is probably not enough to stem the behaviour that causes obesity. It can be managed to a greater or lesser extent, and therapy/treatment is valuable but it's simply NOT just a case of a) being a greedy beggar and b) eating less/doing more.

So.. now to the very personal point of this post.

I am fat, I am obese. I am just on or just below the morbidly obese point in terms of BMI.

I have been chubby/fat since the age of 3/4. I was a large child, teenager and adult. At times I've managed to lose some of my bodyweight - around 25% - but events and choices have then influenced a partial or total regain, such as a spinal/nerve issue that has resulted in 4 x emergency surgeries over the past 18 years and rehabbing with permanent disability.

I have disordered eating. Being very fat affects my health but it is also very hard to put on the 'eating brakes' sometimes.
If the substance was alcohol, nicotine, opiates then abstinence is effective. I sometimes wish that I didn't have to eat at all - imagine if you were an alcoholic but you actually had to drink 3 cans of beer a day to stay alive, or a junkie that had to shoot up a wee bit of heroin daily! I practice Intermittent Fasting to reduce that time window for eating to just a few hours daily but that in itself has a minimal effect of body size.

I would guess that most very fat people know that they're obese. We know that we overeat for various reasons. We know our eating habits may be disordered. We know our health is suffering. We need constructive interventions and intensive health management in this 'obesogenic environment' we live in, that our bodies are not designed for - not being condemned, labelled as being weak-willed, bullied or patronised. If one has an ED but is very fat, the UK health services has very little, if not zero, interest in helping you. Morbid obesity might cause more deaths and health effects than anorexia but if you're skeletally thin and look frail and ill a heck of a lot more treatment comes your way, more quickly.

Basically, a bit more knowledge, love and understanding please. Most of us fatties aren't continually scoffing burgers and Mars bars. We're living with something like an addiction and failing every day.


(edited for typos)

I think for many of us, we cannot eat the neolithic farmer's diet of a lot of grains, roots and cultivated fruits and do better with meat/fish, leaves, nuts and berries.

Several GPs have told me they highly approve of it, despite the 'official' NHS guidance.

 

[flannel]

I've just started dairy free keto (LCHF) based on Dr. Ede's recent book, to see if it has any effect on my reflux, depression and lack of energy. I'm having trouble getting enough fat in without overdoing the protein and am losing too much weight. One trick I've found is to use Quorn pieces to soak up meat juices.

 

[Floyd]

I've just started dairy free keto (LCHF) based on Dr. Ede's recent book, to see if it has any effect on my reflux, depression and lack of energy. I'm having trouble getting enough fat in without overdoing the protein and am losing too much weight. One trick I've found is to use Quorn pieces to soak up meat juices.

I find the quorn pieces that you mention, quite bland, so they perhaps aren't as bad for you as other vegetarian meat.

A few months ago I bought some of Linda's Lincolnshire sausages and the amount of salt in them was horrendous (and I love salt).
I was having to drink water for hours after.

 

[Fanari_Lloyd]

plus as much stuff like cheese, cream, unprocessed meats, fish, fats as one wishes. It gets a bit boring but I do feel better when I get back on the LCHF wagon.

I am pretty much Keto. Very low carb, natural fats such as Greek yoghurt and cottage cheese (also high in protein) nuts, fruit, meat. I do make a concession to one ‘treat’ which is home-made flapjack in Greek Yoghurt. It’s been brilliant for weight loss though I’ve also been doing weights for 2 years now so bone density is up. At my age I begin to worry about frailty, falls etc so that is a factor.

I don’t really find it boring. I’m used to it now and like it. I’m also on restricted eating times (within 8 hours per day) and have been for 3 years. Instead of flailing around trying various diets or semi-starving it was mainly cutting out carbs in my case that did the trick. Also 90% of what I eat has only one or two ingredients. None of it’s processed. And protein really fills me up So I don’t feel I need more, or to bulk things out with carbs.

 

[Stormkhan]

Having got a tip-off from a You Tube cookery channel, I discovered that you can replace double cream in many recipes with natural yogurt. You still get a nice, creamy sauce.

 

[kesavaross]

I find the quorn pieces that you mention, quite bland, so they perhaps aren't as bad for you as other vegetarian meat.

A few months ago I bought some of Linda's Lincolnshire sausages and the amount of salt in them was horrendous (and I love salt).
I was having to drink water for hours after.

I hate to post this, the main ingredient in Quorn foods is lichen and they are classed as an ultra processed food. Ages ago, I ate some Quorn sausages in a sandwich and found them almost indigestible.

Personally, I won't eat any fake meat, chicken, etc, as they're all highly processed salt and fake sugar rich foods usually loaded with chemicals.

 

[AnonyJ]

I've just started dairy free keto (LCHF) based on Dr. Ede's recent book, to see if it has any effect on my reflux, depression and lack of energy. I'm having trouble getting enough fat in without overdoing the protein and am losing too much weight. One trick I've found is to use Quorn pieces to soak up meat juices.

Do you like fresh coconut? Also canned coconut milk smoothies/'milk'-shakes.

I keep falling off the VLC wagon, but find this kind of eating much easier when I climb back on. I sort of wish I could have the issue of losing too much weight. I personally have found this site has good non-nonsense info re. LCHF: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto/foods

 

[Floyd]

Having got a tip-off from a You Tube cookery channel, I discovered that you can replace double cream in many recipes with natural yogurt. You still get a nice, creamy sauce.

I've tried that a few times when making a creamy pasta sauce/potato bake - it worked reasonably well sometimes, but not so much on others.

 

[Floyd]

Has anyone noticed a correlation between eating avocados and ibs symptoms?

 

[Tempest63]

Has anyone noticed a correlation between eating avocados and ibs symptoms?

I can eat avocado without it causing a reaction to my IBD, however the dieticians at the hospital told me not to eat more than a half of an avocado at a time as the high fat content could cause problems.
I tend to mash up a whole avocado with some chopped spring onions and coriander leaf, a good squeeze of lime juice and split it over a couple of days.

Edit. It’s very much guacamole but without tomatoes that are part of the nightshade family. They can have a adverse effect on gut problems.

 

[Tempest63]

Functional digestive disorders are those that cause symptoms without a clear medical cause.
They’re not immediately dangerous but can significantly affect quality of life.
Examples include irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), bloating and heartburn.
Specific foods are known to trigger functional digestive symptoms. Elimination diets, like the low FODMAP diet, have shown great promise in relieving discomfort.
Nightshades are commonly reported to worsen IBS symptoms, but it would only be certain varieties, and only because of FODMAPs. Regular potatoes and tomatoes, for example, would have little impact.

https://www.dietvsdisease.org/night...oods are known to,and only because of FODMAPs.

 

[Floyd]

I can eat avocado without it causing a reaction to my IBD, however the dieticians at the hospital told me not to eat more than a half of an avocado at a time as the high fat content could cause problems.
I tend to mash up a whole avocado with some chopped spring onions and coriander leaf, a good squeeze of lime juice and split it over a couple of days.

Edit. It’s very much guacamole but without tomatoes that are part of the nightshade family. They can have a adverse effect on gut problems.

Right.

The reason I ask is because I've had two beauts this week (one on each day for dinner) and had terrible pains in the old gut.

It may well have been something else though, but I will follow your advice and split one over two days if it happens again.

 

[flannel]

Avocados are:

• Low fermentation in 'The Microbiome Connection' book.
• Moderate fermentation in the Fast Tract diet app for half (High for a whole one).
• Yellow light for sugar polyols in the Monash FODMAP app for half (80g) (Red light for 93g, the other five FODMAPs are green light). It also says the sugar polyol (perseitol) is unique to avocados so it could be that.