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Picnic At Hanging Rock

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Anonymous

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Well, fancy that! I was under the impression that this was quite a wierd, Fort-ish thing that lots of people knew about. Do you realise we don't have a thread about this?
The following all allude to it:

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8319&highlight=Picnic+at+Hanging+Rock

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=311&highlight=Picnic+at+Hanging+Rock

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5299&highlight=Picnic+at+Hanging+Rock

http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8587&highlight=Picnic+at+Hanging+Rock


But there's no thread actually discussing it, which is kinda sad. I wanted to know some more about it.

All I know is, there's a film (a work of fiction) in which some schoolgirls do a bit of vanishing into thin air one sunny afternoon. Then there's a bit of debate as to what extent this film is based on real events. Oh, and it's all set in Australia?
All the texts I have at home on the matter are either:
a) A bit old
b) a bit sensationalist
or c) Both.

Any info?
 
I thought it was all made up. The subplot is about teenage lesbianism and repressed sexuality, and one 'explanation' is that the missing gals have spontaneously combusted under the pressure of their fiendish lust.

:rolleyes:

Yeah.
 
I would have sworn we had a thread on it at one time, but it might have been erased if the person who started it wanted to erase all their previous threads....

Here is my presious link:

http://www.peterweircave.com/picnic/

The movie and book are supposed to be based on true events, but there has been no report found to support that it is a true event. It has an amazing, dreamy/nightmareish quality that is hard to quantify, so it's best to see it yourself.

A bit of fun trivia from IMDB:

Executive Producer Patricia Lovell reported that the watches and clocks of the cast and crew behaved in an erratic manner: stopping at a certain hour, or being either too fast or too slow. In both the book and the film, the watches of the schoolgirls stopped at noon when they were on the rock and this was the cue for the strange and terrifying events that followed.

And the Picnic At Hanging Rock Forum
 
See, IMDB http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073540/plotsummary says :

Three students and a school teacher disappear on an excursion to Hanging Rock, in Victoria, on Valentine's Day, 1900. Widely (and incorrectly) regarded as being based on a true story, the movie follows those that disappeared, and those that stayed behind, but it delights in the asking of questions, not the answering of them.

(italics 101's own)

Now, what do they mean by that? Is it that:

1) The film claims to be based on true events (Like 'Fargo'), while this claim is in fact part of the 'suspension of disbelief'/ a deliberate deception for reasons of 'art'?

2) People saw it and just assumed that it was based on true events?

3) Other agencies (tabloid press? Dimestore conspiracy books?) perpetuated the rumour that it was based on true events that it's actually not much like at all (a la 'Amtyville' or 'The Exorsist')


Just curious.
 
Some interesting/weird details:

* The cast and crew traveled to Adelaide and arrived co-incidentally on February 14th - St. Valentine's Day, the day on which the action starts in both the book and film in the year 1900.

* Executive Producer Patricia Lovell reported that the watches and clocks of the cast and crew behaved in an erratic manner: stopping at a certain hour, or being either too fast or too slow. In both the book and the film, the watches of the schoolgirls stopped at noon when they were on the rock and this was the cue for the strange and terrifying events that followed.

* Despite many reports to the contrary, this movie is not based on a true story.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073540/trivia

More on the clocks:

There was, however, one eerie note. The watches and clocks of the cast and crew behaved in an erratic manner as Executive Producer, Patricia Lovell reported at the time - "We are having trouble with time here. All our watches seem to be playing up. Mine stopped at 6.00 p.m. on the Rock, and a brand new alarm clock is either early or slow, but never correct, no matter what time we set it. Everyone seems to be having the same trouble and to ask the time has become quite a joke". This note will have a rather chilling overtone to those familiar with the story of PICNIC AT HANGING ROCK. In both the book and the film the watches of the schoolgirls stopped at noon when they were on the rock and this was the cue for the strange and terrifying events that followed.

http://www.hangingrock.info/picnic/weir/weir.html

The Wikipedia entry also has some extra information about the book which I didn't know:

Prior to publication, the final chapter was removed. Chapter eighteen, as it was known, was not widely discussed until the mid-1980s, but in 1987 was finally published as The Secret of Hanging Rock by Angus & Robertson Publishing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picnic_at_Hanging_Rock

And other comments on its truthfulness:

'Picnic at Hanging Rock' is one of those tales which everyone tends to assume is based on a true story. Joan Lindsay, who wrote the original novel, hinted that this may have been the case, but there is no evidence to support her suggestion, though, to this day, people still go looking for evidence of the lost girls.

http://www.movie-gurus.com/content/reviews/stars5/980/
 
This is a transcript of an investigation into the issue:

No Picnic at Hanging Rock

Presented by Justin Murphy
Researcher: Lesley Holden
Broadcast 8 August 2004
Recommend to a friend

Truth or Fiction? Justin Murphy investigates the fascinating characters in Peter Weir's masterpiece 'Picnic at Hanging Rock'.

Everyone agrees Hanging Rock, near Mt Macedon, exists. It is an eerie place and an extraordinary geological formation.

But did events on Valentine's Day 1900, described in the book and the subsequent film by Peter Weir, really happen or did 'The Rock', in part, inspire the works that have become embedded in our cultural imagination.

MICHAEL CATHCART: Now, history and legend are very close relatives, and sometimes telling them apart is pretty much impossible. But Justin Murphy's been trying to disentangle fact from fiction in a great Aussie mystery - a mystery that's become part of our collective memory thanks to that beautiful and iconic Aussie film made by Peter Weir back in 1975 - 'Picnic at Hanging Rock'.

JUSTIN MURPHY, REPORTER: Since Joan Lindsay wrote the book and Peter Weir made the movie and Miranda turned that last corner, the question at Hanging Rock has been asked every day for over 30 years - what happened here? Where did those girls go? Why is this place so mysterious? The tourists flock, all wanting to see for themselves. And almost all of them believe the story.

MAN: I wanna know what rock they were under. And...

JUSTIN MURPHY: You believe the story?

MAN: I believe the story, yes.

GUIDO BIGOLIN, RANGER, HANGING ROCK: What they do, they all ask me where these girls had gone missing, but really, you know, it's a big area. They could have gone missing anywhere.

JUSTIN MURPHY: This is a first edition of Joan Lindsay's book 'Picnic at Hanging Rock', dated 1967. And prominent in the frontispiece is the following paragraph. "Whether 'Picnic at Hanging Rock' is fact or fiction "my readers must decide for themselves. "As the fateful picnic took place in the year 1900 "and all the characters who appear in this book are long since dead, "it hardly seems important." Clearly, she's leaving the mystery open.

PATRICIA LOVELL, PRODUCER: We wanted people to know... or to THINK it was a real story, because Joan was very enigmatic about it.

JUSTIN MURPHY: Patricia Lovell, who produced the film, also enhanced the myth.

PATRICIA LOVELL: I went through local newspapers of the time - back to the, um...to 1900, before. And three children were actually, um, found dead, but not on the rock, but close by.

JUSTIN MURPHY: Guido Bigolin has been the National Parks custodian of the rock for 23 years. Parts of the landscape are permanently frightening, he says, even to him.

GUIDO BIGOLIN: I mean, you do feel something's watching you.

JUSTIN MURPHY: Even you?

GUIDO BIGOLIN: Yeah, that's right. That's the truth.

JUSTIN MURPHY: And the rock is honeycombed with deep chimneys down which children might easily have slipped.

Do you believe it?

WOMAN: Yes.

JUSTIN MURPHY: You do?

WOMAN 2: They say it's true story.

WOMAN 3: I don't believe the outcome of the story of what they say, but I believe something happened. Someone killed her and they got rid of her body.

WOMAN 4: I believe maybe the girl...the girl, something happened in her life - maybe she was pregnant or she had another problem - and she kill herself.

WOMAN 5: So tell us the truth about it!

JUSTIN MURPHY: No, I'm not going to now. No.

WOMAN 5: Oh, please! (Laughs) You're not going to spoil our...mystery.

JUSTIN MURPHY: The other thing that fascinates me, that I hadn't heard before, is that...you were saying to me that you've seen almost all of the cast of the film back here from time to time.

GUIDO BIGOLIN: They have been back, yes. They have - in my time, yeah.

JUSTIN MURPHY: Just quietly. Unannounced.

GUIDO BIGOLIN: That's right.

JUSTIN MURPHY: Privately.

GUIDO BIGOLIN: Yeah.

JUSTIN MURPHY: One of those is Ann-Louise Lambert. Her character, the enchanting Miranda, had a surreal presence in the film - ethereal, untouchable, mysterious. One of her experiences on location connects eerily with that character. After one tough filming session where nothing went well, Lambert, in full costume, wandered off into the bush to be alone. She soon realised she was being followed. She turned to find an old woman clambering over the rocks towards her. Instantly, she recognised Joan Lindsay.

ANN-LOUISE LAMBERT, ACTOR: And she came up to me and just threw her arms around me immediately. And she said directly into my ear, um, "Oh, Miranda. It's been so long." And she was very emotional. And, um, and she just hung on to me for what seemed a long time. And finally she let me go and sort of stared at me. And she was, you know...she had tears in her eyes. And she was quite shaky. And it felt very...like a very powerful, very true thing, you know, that she was feeling. She was remembering somebody or something that was true.

JUSTIN MURPHY: So perhaps for Joan Lindsay, it wasn't all fiction. There is some truth after all. It hardly matters to Patricia Lovell. She won't be revisiting.

PATRICIA LOVELL, PRODUCER: My daughter insisted I went back in 1985. And we went up and we stood on a sort of lookout piece that I knew in one of those circles of rock faces. I said to her, "I've got to get off here. Very quickly. Now!" Which is exactly, you know, what we did. We packed up and she said, "What's wrong?" And I said, "I just am...afraid. I want to go. And I don't want to come back."

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/rewind/txt/s1168554.htm
 
Here is the final chapter as posted at IMDB (please remove text if this is too liberal a sample....):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073540/board/nest/10792337

By unpublished, I mean it wasn't published along with the rest of "Picnic At Hanging Rock" in 1967. "Chapter Eighteen" isn't a short story, it was in Joan Lindsay's original manuscript; it explains (sort of) what happened to the girls and Miss MacGraw. Some publisher came up with the idea that it would be better left a total mystery, and it wasn't published until 1987. (Just as well I think, since in the 70's it would have been very difficult to turn this chapter into part of the movie.)
As anyone familiar with the book - or the movie - can see, some lines and paragraphs were cut and pasted into Chapter Three.

Chapter Three originally ended when Edith Horton appealed to Irma "for moral support" - "Irma, look at them!"

Anyway, I've transcribed PAHR's "Chapter Eighteen" for anyone interested.

Chapter Eighteen, by Joan Lindsay

It is happening now. As it has been happening ever since Edith Horton ran stumbling and screaming towards the plain. As it will go on happening until the end of time. The scene is never varied by so much as the falling of a leaf or the flight of a bird. To the four people on the Rock it is always acted out in the tepid twilight of a present without a past. Their joys and agonies are forever new.

Miranda is a little ahead of Irma and Marion as they push on through the dogwoods, her straight yellow hair swinging loose as cornsilk about her thrusting shoulders. Like a swimmer, cleaving wave after wave of dusty green. An eagle hovering in the zenith sees an unaccustomed stirring of lighter patches amongst the scrub below, and takes off for higher, purer airs. At last the bushes are thinning out before the face of a little cliff that holds the last light of the sun. So on a million summer evenings the pattern forms and re-forms upon the crags and pinnacles of the Hanging Rock.

The plateau on which they presently emerged from the scrub had much the same comformation as the one lower - boulders, loose stones, an occasional stunted tree. Clumps of rubbery ferns stirred faintly in the pale light. The plain below was infinitely vague and distant. Peering down between the ringing boulders, they could just make out tiny figures coming and going, through drifts of rosy smoke. A dark shape that might have been a vehicle beside the glint of water.

"Whatever can those people be doing down there, scuttling about like a lot of busy little ants?" Marion came over and looked over Irma's shoulder. "A surprising number of human beings are without purpose."
Irma giggled. "I daresay they think themselves quite important."

The ants and their fires were dismissed without further comment. Although Irma was aware, for a little while, of a rather curious sound coming up from the plain, like the beating of far-off drums.

Miranda had been the first to see the monolith - a single outcrop of stone something like a monstrous egg, rising smoothly out of the rocks ahead above a precipitous drop to the plain. Irma, a few feet behind the other two, saw them suddenly halt, swaying a little, with heads bent and hands pressed to their breasts as if to steady themselves against a gale.

"What is it, Marion? Is anything the matter?"

Marion's eyes were fixed and brilliant, her nostrils dilated, and Irma thought vaguely how like a greyhound she was.
"Irma! Don't you feel it?"

"Feel what, Marion?" Not a twig was stirring on the little dried-up trees.

"The monolith. Pulling, like a tide. It's just about pulling me inside out, if you want to know." As Marion Quade seldom joked, Irma was afraid to smile. Especially as Miranda was calling back over her shoulder, "What side do you feel it strongest, Marion?"

"I can't make it out. We seem to be spiralling on the surface of a cone - all directions at once." Mathematics again! When Marion Quade was particularly silly it was usually something to do with sums. Irma said lightly, "Sounds to me more like a circus! Come on, girls - we don't want to stand staring at that great thing forever."

As soon as the monolith was passed and out of sight, all three were overcome by an overpowering drowsiness. Lying down in a row on the smooth floor of a little plateau, they fell into a sleep so deep that a lizard darted out from under a rock and lay without fear in the hollow of Marion's outflung arm, while several beetles in bronze armour made a leisurely tour of Miranda's yellow head.

Miranda woke first, to a colourless twilight in which every detail was intensified, every object clearly defined and separate. A forsaken nest wedged in the fork of a long-dead tree, with every straw and feather intricately laced and woven; Marion's torn muslin skirts fluted like a shell; Irma's dark ringlets standing away from her face in exquisite wiry confusion, the eyelashes drawn in bold sweeps on the cheek-bones. Everything, if you could only see it clearly enough, like this, is beautiful and complete. Everything has its own perfection.

A little brown snake dragging its scaly body across the gavel made a sound like wind passing over the ground. The whole air was clamorous with microscopic life.

Irma and Marion were still asleep. Miranda could hear the separate beating of their two hearts, like two little drums, each at a different tempo. And in the undergrowth beyond the clearing a crackling and snapping of twigs where a living creature moved unseen towards them through the scrub. It drew nearer, the crunchings and cracklings split the silence as the bushes were pushed violently apart and a heavy object was propelled from the undergrowth almost on to Miranda's lap.

It was a woman with a gaunt, raddled face trimmed with bushy black eyebrows - a clown-like figure dressed in a torn calico camisole and long calico drawers frilled below the knees of two stick-like legs, feebly kicking out in black lace-up boots.

"Through!" gasped the wide-open mouth, and again, "Through!" The tousled head fell sideways, the hooded eyes closed.

"Poor thing! She looks ill," Irma said. "Where does she come from?"

"Put your arm under her head," Miranda said, "while I unlace her stays."

Freed from the confining husks, with her head pillowed on a folded petticoat, the stranger's breath became regular, the strained expression left her face and presently, she rolled over on the rock and slept.

"Why don't we all get out of these absurd garments?" Marion asked. "After all, we have plenty of ribs to keep us vertical."

No sooner were the four pairs of corsets discarded on the stones and a delightful coolness and freedom set in, than Marion's sense of order was affronted. "Everything in the universe has its appointed place, beginning with the plants. Yes, Irma, I meant it. You needn't giggle. Even our corsets on the Hanging Rock."

"Well, you won't find a wardrobe," Irma said, "however hard you look. Where can we put them?" Miranda suggested throwing them over the precipice. "Give them to me."

"Which way did they fall?" Marion wanted to know. "I was standing right beside you but I couldn't tell."

"You didn't see them fall because they DIDN'T fall." The precise croaking voice came at them like a trumpet from the mouth of the clown-woman on the rock, now sitting up and looking perfectly comfortable. "I think, girl, that if you turn your head to the right and look about level with your waist ... " They all turned their heads to the right and there, sure enough, were the corsets, becalmed on the windless air like a fleet of little ships. Miranda had picked up a dead branch, long enough to reach them, and was lashing out at the stupid things seemingly glued to the background of grey air.

"Let me try!" Marion said. Whack! Whack! "They must be stuck fast in something I can't see."

"If you want my opinion," croaked the stranger, "they are stuck fast in TIME. You with the curls - what are you staring at?"

"I didn't mean to stare. Only when you said that about TIME I had such a funny feeling I had met you somewhere. A long time ago."

"Anything is possible, unless it is proved impossible. And sometimes even then." The scratchy voice had a convincing ring of authority. "And now, since we seem to be thrown together on a plane of common experience - I have no idea why - may I have your names? I have apparently left my own particular label somewhere over there." She waved towards the blank wall of scrub. "No matter. I perceive that I have discarded a good deal of clothing. However, here I am. The pressure on my physical body must have been very severe." She passed a hand over her eyes and Marion asked with a strange humility, "Do you suggest we should go on before the light fades?"

"For a person of your intelligence - I can see your brain quite distinctly - you are not very observant. Since there are no shadows here, the light too is unchanging."

Irma was looking worried. "I don't understand. Please, does that mean that if there are caves, they are filled with light or darkness? I am terrified of bats."

Miranda was radiant. "Irma, darling - don't you see? It means we arrive in the light!"

"Arrive? But Miranda ... where are we going?"

"The girl Miranda is correct. I can see her heart, and it is full of understanding. Every living creature is due to arrive somewhere. If I know nothing else, at least I know that." She had risen to her feet, and for a moment they thought she looked almost beautiful. "Actually, I think we ARE arriving. Now." A sudden giddiness set her whole being spinning like a top. It passed, and she saw the hole ahead.

It wasn't a hole in the rocks, nor a hole in the ground. It was a hole in space. About the size of a fully rounded summer moon, coming and going. She saw it as painters and sculptors saw a hole, as a thing in itself, giving shape and significance to other shapes. As a presence, not an absence - a concrete affirmation of truth. She felt that she could go on looking at it forever in wonder and delight, from above, from below, from the other side. It was as solid as the globe, as transparent as an air-bubble. An opening, easily passed through, and yet not concave at all.

She had passed a lifetime asking questions and now they were answered, simply by looking at the hole.

It faded out, and at last she was at peace.

The little brown snake had appeared again and was lying beside a crack that ran off somewhere underneath the lower of two enormous boulders balancing one on top of the other. When Miranda bent down and touched its exquisitely patterned scales it slithered away into a tangle of giant vines. Marion knelt down beside her and together they began tearing away the loose gravel and the tangled cables of the vine.

"It went down there. Look, Miranda - down that opening."

A hole - perhaps the narrow lip of a cave or tunnel, rimmed with bruised, heart-shaped leaves.

"You'll agree it's my privilege to enter first?"

"To enter?" they said, looking from the narrow lip of the cave to the wide, angular hips.

"Quite simple. You are thinking in terms of linear measurements, girl Marion. When I give you the signal - probably a tap on the rock - you may follow me, and the girl Miranda can follow you. Is that clearly understood?" The raddled face was radiant.

Before anyone could answer, the long-boned torso was flattening itself out on the ground beside the hole, deliberately forming itself out on the ground beside the hole, deliberately forming itself to the needs of a creature created to creep and burrow under the earth. The thin arms, crossed behind the head with its bright staring eyes, became the pincers of a giant crab that inhabits mud-caked billabongs. Slowly the body dragged itself inch by inch through the hole. First the head vanished; then the shoulder-blades humped together; the frilled pantaloons, the long black sticks of the legs welded together like a tail ending in two black boots.

"I can hardly wait for the signal," Marion said. When presently a few firm raps were heard from under the rock she went in quite easily, head first, smoothing down her chemise without a backward glance. "My turn next," Miranda said.

Irma looked at Miranda kneeling beside the hole, her bare feet embedded in vine leaves - so calm, so beautiful, so unafraid. "Oh, Miranda, darling Miranda, don't go down there - I'm frightened. Let's go home!"

"Home? I don't understand, my little love. Why are you crying? Listen! Is that Marion tapping? I must go." Her eyes shone like stars. The tapping came again. Miranda pulled her long, lovely legs after her and was gone.

Irma sat down on a rock to wait. A procession of tiny insects was winding through a wilderness of dry moss. Where had they come from? Where were they going? Where was anyone going? Why, oh why, had Miranda thrust her bright head into a dark hole in the ground? She looked up at the colourless grey sky, at the drab, rubbery ferns, and sobbed aloud.

How long had she been staring at the lip of the cave, staring and listening for Miranda to tap on the rock? Listening and staring, staring and listening.

Two or three runnels of loose sand came pattering down the lower of the two great boulders on to the flat upturned leaves of the vine as it tilted slowly forward and sank with a sickening precision directly over the hole.

Irma had flung herself down on the rocks and was tearing and beating at the gritty face of the boulder with her bare hands. She had always been clever at embroidery. They were pretty little hands, soft and white.
 
Interesting theory expressed on the movie discussion forum:

http://p201.ezboard.com/ftheultimatepicnicathangingrockforumfrm1.showMessage?topicID=5.topic

This is a post from Mist of Time:

I think it's safe to say that no disappearance of school girls ever took place at Hanging Rock. The records (or lack of, rather) prove it unlikely.

However, one theory is that the book is indeed based on a true story, only Mrs. Lindsay changed most of the details to hide the truth. This seems like the most plausible theories out of all the ones I have heard, and believe me, I have heard them all! Maybe there was a disappearance, but it did not necessary happen in Australia; supposedly it took place in the U.S., or Canada. Maybe it wasn't even schoolgirls who disappeared but a group of schoolboys (think Cub Scouts). Perhaps they got lost but were found safe after a few days out in the woods. Maybe one or two members fell into a crevasse in the mountains while camping, hiking, climbing.

There are so many scenarios to choose from. The point is, Mrs. Lindsay could have read or heard about a party disappearing and chose to wrote her novel on the basis of that report. Being a writer, it would be no trouble to change details to fit her story, make the setting at Hanging Rock (which she was familiar with), add a non-existent college, and build it as mystery novel.

Take a look at this interview with director Peter Weir concerning Mrs. Lindsay:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Weir'd Tales :

TR: Did you have any contact with Joan Lindsay, over Picnic at Hanging Rock?

PW: Oh yes, I had to be approved by her. On the way to visit her at Mulberry Hill, her farmhouse where she lived with her husband, the literary agent who had set up the meeting warned me not to ask her about the truth of the novel. Of course I knew I would. I wanted to get it out of the way fairly early. I said, looking at the literary agent, 'Forgive me', turned to her and said, 'I'm not supposed to ask this, but is it true?' She looked very tense and looked at the agent as if 'didn't you tell him?'; then said, 'I really don't want to discuss that, please don't ask me again.' She appeared one day during the shooting, and I kept my distance from her because I could hear her voice drifting over -- she was a charming woman by the way -- but I could hear her saying, 'Oh, but I didn't imagine him looking anything like that'. And then I saw her after the film had come out and she was besieged by the press, and she said to me, 'Oh, the press keep asking me about the truth of the matter and I don't know what to do. I don't know whether I should tell them or not.' And I said, keep your secret. It was never of interest to me whether it had happened literally or not. Fairly clearly it hadn't happened literally, otherwise there would have been some mention in the newspapers of the day, a scandal like that! It was a metaphor of some kind, for Joan Lindsay.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Sounds like Mrs. Lindsay had something to hide. Or maybe it really is all fiction after all. Here is some information from the final chapter The Secret of Hanging Rock: Joan Lindsay's Final Chapter with an Introduction by John Taylor and a Commentary by Yvonne Rousseau.


"[Joan Lindsay's] own account was that the story 'just came to her' in stages as she lay awake at night, to be written at high speed the next day."

Though Lindsay apparently "imagined" the whole story, and never intentionally researched it, or based it knowingly on any real events, she apparently believed that she had some sort of "psychic" connection, and tended to take the things she imagined quite seriously.

"At the beginning of the novel there is a note by the author: 'Whether Picnic at Hanging Rock is fact or fiction, my readers must decide for themselves. As the fateful picnic took place in the year 1900, and all the characters who appear in this book are long since dead, it hardly seems important.'

"But after writing it, she altered it to read "fact or fiction or both".

John Taylor writes:

"One day she handed me some more letters from people who had been researching fruitlessly through old newspapers, hoping to find the "real" events. I remarked that it was sad that they wasted so much time. "Yes, said Joan - and then absently, "but something did happen."

"Whether the something happened in the newspapers, in some anecdote she had heard, or in her imagination's interconnections with some other world or time, I had no idea - and I knew better than to ask."
 
It's better than the solution Ms Lindsay included in the final chapter, quite rightly left out by the publishers in the original edition.
 
Your right, the geology of the area looks decidedly rickerty.

But its still mundane for a story.
 
That final chapter sounds like a strange dream and I wonder if that's what it originally was. The cave could represent anything from the heartbreaking inability to return to the safety of the womb, to the author's inability to embrace her own bisexuality and the loss of her one true love to convention, to a reluctance to enter into full womanhood with all of it's burdens.

If a friend told you she had a dream that her friends went into a vaginal-esque cave that seemed to transform them, that her friends had promised to signal her when it was her turn, but they never did, and the dreamer found herself weaping with an incredible feeling of loss, how would you interpret it?
 
I remember seeing the movie on TV in 1977 or 1978 when I was 11-12 years old.
And also remember being very dissappointed when they didn't show the monster or whatever which attacked the girls.
 
Well, trust me. You would have been more disappointed if they'd shown it.

Peter Weir was offered the ending by the publishers when making the film, and he quite wisely turned it down. Leaving it up in the air was a much better way to handle it.
 
I finally saw this, and then used the wonders of the internet to get copies of the book and Secret (quite reasonably, too!). I now find I'll have to get a third book, Murders at Hanging Rock, by Yvonne Rousseau, who also comments on Ch. 18 in Secret, but that could take me awhile.

The person with the landslide theory has a perfectly viable line of reasoning, but commits some cardinal sins of textual analysis.

The first, which will surprise no one here, is that once he hits on the landslide theory he falls in love with it and ignores evidence which can reasonably be marshalled against it. He does not discuss, for instance, the fact that Irma should have been dead after eight days without water (or at most with only condensation licked off the rocks), and wasn't even, apparently, dehydrated; that Edith sees McCraw in her drawers below the supposed landslide area; that Sara's ghost appears to both her brother Albert and to Mrs. Appleyard; or that the mystery itself is not treated by the text as the most important point of the story.

The second is an extension of the first - he is so much in love with his rational solution that he rejects the author's own original ending without analysis, setting himself up as an authority in opposition to the text he is interpreting. Unnecessarily, too, as in light of the supernatural element of Sara's ghost there's no reason not to read Ch. 18 as Irma's NDE, in which her spirit stays behind as the others go "into the light" after being crushed by the supposed landslide. If you really want the landslide, there's nothing in Ch. 18 to make it impossible. However, he'd already ignored the supernatural elements, and wasn't ready to re-examine them in light of new information; nothing but a rational explanation will do for him, and he doesn't care how much he has to re-shape the text to get it.

The third and greatest fallacy he falls into is almost - not quite! - inevitable in reading (or viewing) a story of this sort: he assumes that there something "really" happened and the mystery is soluble.

Here's a little mantra to recite when reading fiction: Fiction doesn't really happen. If it did, it would be non-fiction.

Often, there is a core "reality" which the author wishes you to understand, but everything cited here, or anywhere I've found so far, about Lindsey's public pronouncements on this story mystery and wonder were her aesthetic goals. This is compatible with her wanting Ch. 18 to be published, because Ch. 18 contains no solution, only deeper mysteries. It's surrealism would annoy a good proportion of the readership, which is the most plausible reason for withholding it from the original publication. If I had to guess, I'd say that Lindsey dreamed Ch. 18 and developed the rest of the book to explain that scene to herself, and so regarded it as essential, but understood that to many of the general public it would appear to be mere psychedelic nonsense, and therefore consented to the revision. I'm content to read it as an NDE or as a Dreamtime experience, but I'm open to other readings. The more interpretations, the better, in a case like this.

What I find most striking is that the theme which the text itself pushes as most important is virtually ignored by the film and most discussions. What happened on the Rock is the instigator of the plot; the plot itself is what happens as a result of what happened on the Rock. You can call it Fate or you can call it Chaos Theory; either way, it's the contingencies and consequences to all the individual lives - especially poor Sara, but not excepting the insects and plants on the Rock - that interest the author. The film disguises this by eliminating the Lumleys' fire, the relationship between Mike and Irma, the three - count them, three - ways in which Sara could have been saved, and some other little matters.

If you have only seen the film, you're missing quite a bit of intriguing stuff. I now have two copies and can afford to part with one, if anyone wants to make me an offer.
 
Anome_ said:
Well, trust me. You would have been more disappointed if they'd shown it.

Peter Weir was offered the ending by the publishers when making the film, and he quite wisely turned it down. Leaving it up in the air was a much better way to handle it.

Strangely enough, I thought I had already posted here about the whole hanging rock thing...

Anyway, like I thought I wrote before, It would have been impossible to film an ending in any way similar to the events outlined in chapter eighteeen, back then. The picnic book film tie-in was published without chapter 18, and apart from being more marketable, it was a better read. As was the original first printing...

I've been to the actual place where the REAL hanging rocks are and it is not even remotely spooky. (There is a bit of local confusion over where the actual bona-fide rocks are located) There are no ancestral spirits wandering about wreaking havoc, no twisted Earth elementals, no sinister time-space vortex. Just a bunch of rocks , some trees, an atrocious caravan park and some dilapidated buildings. It rained the day(s) I was there, and apart from the odd bit of mist it looks like a rock formation you'd be careful climbing around..
Especially when wet. You'd sprain an ankle just looking at the place.

When the film crew was in town (in Adelaide), the interior shots and some of the exterior vista and panorama work were filmed locally. I sat in the back of an electrical truck handing out cables and such. in between smoking atrocious 'weed.' Some of the crew called to each other saying 'Miranda" as weirdly as they could. Fun coupla'days really...

The best 'angin' rock conspiracy I've heard of - so far- is that the girls were taken by white slave traders story... Thier descendants are in Egypt somewhere.
 
Sunsplash, why is that "the best" theory for you?

Off the top of my head I don't recall any justification for it in the text, and would be happy to be enlightened. White slavers traditionally function in cities, preying on runaways, and there's no hint of any sex trade in the area that I noticed. The references I call to mind to sex and/or removing clothing (inextricably associated with sex in a society that repressed the body) are associated with liberation and happiness. Minnie's pregnancy, Mademoiselle's upcoming marriage, the exchange of valentines, the difficulty of climbing in Gibson girl garb, and the gradual shedding of clothing on approach to the rock, beginning with the removal of gloves after passing through town - these are all treated positively. One could argue that the people who disappeared are those who went too far, past freedom into slavery again, but Irma came back without her corset. Rape is mentioned by people like Mrs. Appleyard, the personification of repression, whose love is reduced to a cameo stored on her bosom and who ignores the natural world until she goes forth in despair in order to kill herself.

McCraw's removal of her outer clothing is in some ways the most mysterious event of the entire book. If she'd gone looking for the girls and pragmatically undressed to climb better (that puce outfit described in her introductory description doesn't sound much good for scrambling among rocks), one would expect to find the clothing neatly folded somewhere. One would also expect her to wake Mademoiselle and tell her where she was going, or to wake Hussey and ask him to go look. But none of this happened.

Nor do I see why Ch. 18 would have been unfilmable in 1976. Comparable special effects have been done since the days of silents. The disappointment and confusion that Ch. 18 rouses in so many readers is justification enough. Though I do not concede that the book is "better" without that ending, there's no doubt that it would have been less popular had Ch. 18 been widely available.

As for whether the rocks are themselves mysterious - everything in this world is mundane, and everything in this world is mysterious. The book uses the mystery of the disappearance to move readers into an angle from which the awesome time depth of of the stone throws the mundane life going on around it into perspective. Marian's remarks about ants and the constant references to the nonhuman life on the rock explicitly point us toward a Lovecraftian awareness of our own insignificance in the larger scheme of things. This is not a comfortable idea to live with daily, which is why we don't think about the age of the rocks in our backyards, regardless of whether they're large geological formations or handfuls of gravel. I live on top of an ocean that existed before terrestrial life began. There's an oooooh factor for you, but of course I deal with it in terms of gardening in alkaline soil, coping with calcification in water pipes, and drinking hard but pure water.

Regardless of what "really" happened to them, by disappearing the girls became part of the Rock in the minds of observers. This is true both in the book and outside of it, and that it happened outside of the book charms me, because, even if Lindsey had a real incident in mind, it's well-established that it must have happened in another place and another time.
 
PeniG said:
Sunsplash, why is that "the best" theory for you?

well, locally there have been many 'funny' ideas about what occured. As in; the girls travelled through time: were killed by 'natives': were kidnapped by Aliens: had there spirits taken away: or were thrown out of the school because their parents became impecunious.

the theory about being taken by slave traders is the 'best' Conspiracy theory for me is because it ties in with Oz culture and its fear of other cultures.

Bearing in mind, it's a fictional tale and that nothing really happenned...
:roll:
 
The TV series was discussed on the Folk Horror thread and I've finally viewed the film.

Picnic at hanging Rock. A mystery, an aural and visual extravaganza. 1900, three schoolgirls and a teacher disappear during a picnic at Hanging Rock in rural Victoria. The rock outcrop itself seems to morph as the film unfolds, Tors look more and more like human and animal faces, the caves mouths which might have swallowed the missing. The magical rock contrasts with the formality of the Boarding School which the girls attended. Differences at school as well between the headmistress and soe of the more human/humane teachers. Beautifully filmed, you will ponder over this film's meaning long after the final credits roll. Directed by Peter Weir from a screenplay by Cliff Green. 9/10.
Free to view at: https://www.channel4.com/programmes/picnic-at-hanging-rock
 
There is nothing Fortean in what I'm about to say, but I once spent a day with Pat Lovell the director of the 1975 film. I was only 5 at the time and this was when she was more famous for being 'Miss Pat' of 'Mr Squiggle' fame. Fellow Aussies will understand.
 
I thought it was all made up. The subplot is about teenage lesbianism and repressed sexuality, and one 'explanation' is that the missing gals have spontaneously combusted under the pressure of their fiendish lust.

:rolleyes:

Yeah.
If I had a dollar every time this happened to me...:incan:

There is nothing Fortean in what I'm about to say, but I once spent a day with Pat Lovell the director of the 1975 film. I was only 5 at the time and this was when she was more famous for being 'Miss Pat' of 'Mr Squiggle' fame. Fellow Aussies will understand.
Miss Pat? It was Miss Jane in my day...:omr:
 
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