Bodies Entombed In Concrete (Buildings, Roadways & Other Structures)
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Apparently, it was a bloke named Bill Shirk and seemingly, he survived.
Spookdaddy
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Deja vu. I thought I'd posted on this thread ages ago but I can't find myself so maybe there's a similar thread elsewhere.
I'm pretty sure one of Primo Levi's stories deals with the probems caused by a body decomposing in the structure of a bridge - maybe in The Wrench or The Periodic Table, can't remember. The latter is (mainly) autobiographical, the former fictional but based on things that Levi had encountered in his career as a chemist with an interest in engineering. (Sounds leaden but it isn't - well worth reading).
The "Sack of Palermo" is a name given to a huge building boom which occured in that city in the late 50's and early 60's. Much of what had been a beautiful if neglected city was bulldozed and concreted by a very small number of developers - all mafiosi. Rumour is that much of the city is built around those who stood in their way.
I'm pretty sure one of Primo Levi's stories deals with the probems caused by a body decomposing in the structure of a bridge - maybe in The Wrench or The Periodic Table, can't remember. The latter is (mainly) autobiographical, the former fictional but based on things that Levi had encountered in his career as a chemist with an interest in engineering. (Sounds leaden but it isn't - well worth reading).
The "Sack of Palermo" is a name given to a huge building boom which occured in that city in the late 50's and early 60's. Much of what had been a beautiful if neglected city was bulldozed and concreted by a very small number of developers - all mafiosi. Rumour is that much of the city is built around those who stood in their way.
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Didn't a film canister containing several chopped scenes from 'The Wicker Man' end up entombed in concrete somewhere?
A
Anonymous
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This reminds me of the story about the millions of Atari games buried in the ground :
http://www.snopes.com/business/market/atari.asp
http://www.snopes.com/business/market/atari.asp
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Bodies Rumored in Concrete
Don't mean to rain on anybody's loverly UL parade here, but wouldn't a human body decaying inside a dam face, a bridge support tower, or a concrete pier and so on eventually create an empty pocket which would fill with water which would freeze every winter and crack every spring?
My layman's guess is that this would prove fatal to a dam or bridge support in fairly short order. Civil engineers are concerned about even SMALL BUBBLES in the concrete mix when it's used for these purposes, for the above reasons.
And if a body was buried in highway concrete, wouldn't the greatgranddaddy of all potholes result from heavy traffic passing overhead?
In addition, are the layers of highway gravel and concrete THICK enough to hide an adult human body? Wouldn't there be a LUMP?
And highways are dug up and rehabbed from time to time. Wouldn't the murder out?
Don't mean to rain on anybody's loverly UL parade here, but wouldn't a human body decaying inside a dam face, a bridge support tower, or a concrete pier and so on eventually create an empty pocket which would fill with water which would freeze every winter and crack every spring?
My layman's guess is that this would prove fatal to a dam or bridge support in fairly short order. Civil engineers are concerned about even SMALL BUBBLES in the concrete mix when it's used for these purposes, for the above reasons.
And if a body was buried in highway concrete, wouldn't the greatgranddaddy of all potholes result from heavy traffic passing overhead?
In addition, are the layers of highway gravel and concrete THICK enough to hide an adult human body? Wouldn't there be a LUMP?
And highways are dug up and rehabbed from time to time. Wouldn't the murder out?
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What about that road in Italy that the mob built? Hear the government got it closed down by the Military because the mob made it for the people and there was no tax or charge on it. There was a rumour the mob buried one of the government fellows in the concreate.
The road is still not used either.
The road is still not used either.
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Re: Bodies Rumored in Concrete
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewt ... 737#573737
Admittedly the circumstances are not the same (the block was found in a garage), but police were able to carry out an autopsy on the remains to determine cause of death. Perhaps concrete helps to preserve bodies?
On Strange Deaths II I posted a story about a baby entombed in a concrete block for up to 15 years:OldTimeRadio said:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewt ... 737#573737
Admittedly the circumstances are not the same (the block was found in a garage), but police were able to carry out an autopsy on the remains to determine cause of death. Perhaps concrete helps to preserve bodies?
Spookdaddy
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Re: Bodies Rumored in Concrete
It's those problems that the Primo Levi story goes into - having said that I still can't find which story it is. I'd agree that in the wrong place a decaying body could be fatal to the structure of, say, a bridge. Having said that anyone desperate enough to dump a body in wet concrete probably isn't overly concerned about health and safety!
OldTimeRadio said:
It's those problems that the Primo Levi story goes into - having said that I still can't find which story it is. I'd agree that in the wrong place a decaying body could be fatal to the structure of, say, a bridge. Having said that anyone desperate enough to dump a body in wet concrete probably isn't overly concerned about health and safety!
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Murdered Baby in a Block
Rynner, in the genuinely nasty story you posted about the sexually and physically abused and afterwards murdered infant who was entombed - (alive!) - in a concrete block, that infamous block remained INDOORS down the years.
So it was not exposed to the elements as a dam face, bridge abutment, pier or highway would be.
Rynner, in the genuinely nasty story you posted about the sexually and physically abused and afterwards murdered infant who was entombed - (alive!) - in a concrete block, that infamous block remained INDOORS down the years.
So it was not exposed to the elements as a dam face, bridge abutment, pier or highway would be.
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More
In addition, Rynner, according to another BBC report the infant's remains were so badly decayed that they were originally believed to be those of a animal. Even the original police surgeon to view the remains did not recognize them as human.
Thus the remains badly decayed INDOORS over a 10-year period inside a remarkably solid-looking garage, even though they were "protected" within a concrete block.
So we can only speculate as to what would happen to an adult body entombed within a bridge abutment exposed to the elements over, say, 50 years or a century.
Moreover, that "decay spot" in the bridge concrete would most likely be required to support a load of many tons, which the murder-block inside the garage obviously didn't have to.
P. S. Thank you for linking to this gruesome crime. I had been previously unaware of it but now have several articles and photographs downloaded to "Crime - Child Abuse," "Forensics" and even "Satanism" files.
In addition, Rynner, according to another BBC report the infant's remains were so badly decayed that they were originally believed to be those of a animal. Even the original police surgeon to view the remains did not recognize them as human.
Thus the remains badly decayed INDOORS over a 10-year period inside a remarkably solid-looking garage, even though they were "protected" within a concrete block.
So we can only speculate as to what would happen to an adult body entombed within a bridge abutment exposed to the elements over, say, 50 years or a century.
Moreover, that "decay spot" in the bridge concrete would most likely be required to support a load of many tons, which the murder-block inside the garage obviously didn't have to.
P. S. Thank you for linking to this gruesome crime. I had been previously unaware of it but now have several articles and photographs downloaded to "Crime - Child Abuse," "Forensics" and even "Satanism" files.
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Mythbusters (highly recommended if you haven't seen it 
) on the Discovery Channel did an experiment along these lines:
And no, they did geo-phys and radar surveys of the entire Giants Stadium, and found nothing at all. Wherever Hoffa may be, he ain't there.
) on the Discovery Channel did an experiment along these lines:
They buried two dead pigs in concrete, and a few months later excavated the site. Result? For a start, the smell permeated the concrete so much so that they had to spread latex and then asphalt over the concrete shortly after it had been laid, and secondly when they dug it up the remains had turned into gooey skeletons with a large gap arouind them - the concrete had acted like a mold, basically. So yes, it's reasonable to conclude that a road support pillar etc would be rather unstable owing to a huge bubble in the middle of it.
And no, they did geo-phys and radar surveys of the entire Giants Stadium, and found nothing at all
. Wherever Hoffa may be, he ain't there.
Spookdaddy
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stuneville said:And no, they did geo-phys and radar surveys of the entire Giants Stadium, and found nothing at all
The latest theory I've heard is that he was turned into fish chum and fed to the tuna.
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Reminds me of the fate of Captain Robert Nairac. Abducted and shot by the IRA in 1977. His body was never found, but it was allegedly fed through an industrial mincer and buried in the Armagh countryside somewhere.
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Man's Many Inhumanities to Man - and Women and Children, Too
Hi. Rynner. What "floats my boat" is at least hoping that we can eventually prevent abominations of this sort from ever happening again.
While I possesses extensive criminological and forensics files, my feelings and my sympathies are forever with the innocent victims of crime.
That's one thing which has aways kept me from becoming a full-fledged "Ripperologist." Too many of those guys seem to regard JtR as some sort of Slippery Elusive Hero rather than as the vicious woman-loathing beast that he (?) actually was.
And in any case my Fortean and Paranormal files outnumber the above by at least 50 to one.
But I'd better stop now because I'm getting off-topic.
Hi. Rynner. What "floats my boat" is at least hoping that we can eventually prevent abominations of this sort from ever happening again.
While I possesses extensive criminological and forensics files, my feelings and my sympathies are forever with the innocent victims of crime.
That's one thing which has aways kept me from becoming a full-fledged "Ripperologist." Too many of those guys seem to regard JtR as some sort of Slippery Elusive Hero rather than as the vicious woman-loathing beast that he (?) actually was.
And in any case my Fortean and Paranormal files outnumber the above by at least 50 to one.
But I'd better stop now because I'm getting off-topic.
OneWingedBird
Beloved of Ra
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This from the BBC Website:
Scanner to 'see inside' concrete
By Paul Rincon
BBC News science reporter
Concrete road bridge, BBC
Concrete structures have a finite lifetime
Technology to "look inside" concrete structures could not only monitor them for corrosion, but also locate the remains of murder victims, experts say.
It works using ultrasound, the same technique used in hospitals to monitor growing foetuses in the womb.
One of the systems being developed builds up quasi-3D images of the interiors of concrete structures.
Many were put up in the 50s and 60s and some are already approaching the end of their design lives.
But the technology could also have a potential application in police investigations.
Since the late 1980s, Cambridge Ultrasonics has been working on ways of using ultrasound to inspect concrete structures for signs of corrosion.
A version of its technology, licensed by UK firm Sonatest, seeks to generate images from interiors.
It uses an array of up to six transducers to fire sound waves into the concrete from different angles. The transducers then collect echo-waves returning from within.
Software then helps build the raw data into a pseudo-3D image of the interior.
Hairline cracks
Initial signs of deterioration in concrete often present as hairline cracks. Sonatest's technology, which is still at the research and development stage, sorts out genuine structural flaws from "noise" generated by concrete's lumpy constitution.
Concrete road bridge, BBC
Ultrasound could monitor for changes in structural integrity
"Shooting from many angles, if it's part of the aggregate you would see it from only one viewpoint. But a crack would probably appear as a linear defect as you turn the image," Wayne Woodhead, Sonatest managing director, told BBC News.
Dr David Andrews, director at Cambridge Ultrasonics, explained: "The design life of many concrete structures is 50-120 years. A lot were put up in the 50s, the 60s and some in the 70s.
"They are getting older all the time. Some are deteriorating faster than expected."
Of the possible use of ultrasound in police investigations, Mr Woodhead said: "If there was a body in concrete from 60 years ago, it would probably break down, leaving a void.
"If you scanned the area, you could find the void, but whether it would look like a big hole or would be person-shaped is anyone's guess."
Police interest
David Andrews says police officers approached his company about using ultrasound for this purpose several years ago. Their enquiry concerned disappearances allegedly linked to gang activity in the 1960s.
It was rumoured bodies could have been deposited in wet concrete used to build vertical struts for a road bridge. But the technology was not at a sufficient stage of development for Dr Andrews to provide a mobile version.
Murderers have, in the past found it convenient to dispose of the bodies of their victims in concrete. For example, five sets of remains were found buried under the concrete cellar belonging to Gloucester serial killer Fred West.
Radar can also be used to scan concrete, but it is hampered if water has penetrated the structure.
Cambridge Ultrasonics has developed a sensor system, also based on ultrasound, which could be attached at points along a concrete structure to provide regular, automated monitoring for signs of corrosion.
Each sensor in the Cambridge Monitoring System has a "neural network" which can be trained to compensate for daily and seasonal temperature changes that could confuse readings.
Data from all the neural networks is combined to give a "probability of significant structural change".
Of particular concern are the tendons, which act as the skeleton of the structure. Corrosion leading to failure of one or a few tendons can lead to collapse of major parts or all of the structure.
Scanner to 'see inside' concrete
By Paul Rincon
BBC News science reporter
Concrete road bridge, BBC
Concrete structures have a finite lifetime
Technology to "look inside" concrete structures could not only monitor them for corrosion, but also locate the remains of murder victims, experts say.
It works using ultrasound, the same technique used in hospitals to monitor growing foetuses in the womb.
One of the systems being developed builds up quasi-3D images of the interiors of concrete structures.
Many were put up in the 50s and 60s and some are already approaching the end of their design lives.
But the technology could also have a potential application in police investigations.
Since the late 1980s, Cambridge Ultrasonics has been working on ways of using ultrasound to inspect concrete structures for signs of corrosion.
A version of its technology, licensed by UK firm Sonatest, seeks to generate images from interiors.
It uses an array of up to six transducers to fire sound waves into the concrete from different angles. The transducers then collect echo-waves returning from within.
Software then helps build the raw data into a pseudo-3D image of the interior.
Hairline cracks
Initial signs of deterioration in concrete often present as hairline cracks. Sonatest's technology, which is still at the research and development stage, sorts out genuine structural flaws from "noise" generated by concrete's lumpy constitution.
Concrete road bridge, BBC
Ultrasound could monitor for changes in structural integrity
"Shooting from many angles, if it's part of the aggregate you would see it from only one viewpoint. But a crack would probably appear as a linear defect as you turn the image," Wayne Woodhead, Sonatest managing director, told BBC News.
Dr David Andrews, director at Cambridge Ultrasonics, explained: "The design life of many concrete structures is 50-120 years. A lot were put up in the 50s, the 60s and some in the 70s.
"They are getting older all the time. Some are deteriorating faster than expected."
Of the possible use of ultrasound in police investigations, Mr Woodhead said: "If there was a body in concrete from 60 years ago, it would probably break down, leaving a void.
"If you scanned the area, you could find the void, but whether it would look like a big hole or would be person-shaped is anyone's guess."
Police interest
David Andrews says police officers approached his company about using ultrasound for this purpose several years ago. Their enquiry concerned disappearances allegedly linked to gang activity in the 1960s.
It was rumoured bodies could have been deposited in wet concrete used to build vertical struts for a road bridge. But the technology was not at a sufficient stage of development for Dr Andrews to provide a mobile version.
Murderers have, in the past found it convenient to dispose of the bodies of their victims in concrete. For example, five sets of remains were found buried under the concrete cellar belonging to Gloucester serial killer Fred West.
Radar can also be used to scan concrete, but it is hampered if water has penetrated the structure.
Cambridge Ultrasonics has developed a sensor system, also based on ultrasound, which could be attached at points along a concrete structure to provide regular, automated monitoring for signs of corrosion.
Each sensor in the Cambridge Monitoring System has a "neural network" which can be trained to compensate for daily and seasonal temperature changes that could confuse readings.
Data from all the neural networks is combined to give a "probability of significant structural change".
Of particular concern are the tendons, which act as the skeleton of the structure. Corrosion leading to failure of one or a few tendons can lead to collapse of major parts or all of the structure.
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New Bridge
I suppose this merely means that I am getting old and dotty, but I tend to look upon a bridge put up in the 1960s as the "NEW Bridge."
I suppose this merely means that I am getting old and dotty, but I tend to look upon a bridge put up in the 1960s as the "NEW Bridge."
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... it's not rare to find skeletons embedded in walls. On a recent trip to NY I was told that most of the sky scrapers built in the 1880s-1950's have "bits of people in"!
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linesmachine said:
The same story was told of the concrete support towers for many older bridges spanning the Ohio River.
But civil and construction engineers assure me that these tales HAVE to have been Urban Legends.
"A body lost in the concrete and abandoned would decay and leave a hollow which would fill with water with every heavy downpour. The ice would crack every winter, further decaying the stonework. The bridge would likely fail within five or ten years."
OneWingedBird
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That might depend on how much concrete is around the body and how cold it gets for how long, a thick enough support might never actually freeze through to the middle.
Mythbusters had a go at this one with poor results, but i'd say that they didn;t actually use that much concrete vs how much pig carcass, it's clearly not plausible under a pavement due to the stench and structural weakness, but looking at say some flyovers, it might be a different kettle of fish if you had perhaps a good 15ft of concrete around the body in all directions.
Mythbusters had a go at this one with poor results, but i'd say that they didn;t actually use that much concrete vs how much pig carcass, it's clearly not plausible under a pavement due to the stench and structural weakness, but looking at say some flyovers, it might be a different kettle of fish if you had perhaps a good 15ft of concrete around the body in all directions.
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Isn't there a Scots bridge which supposedly contains not only a wagon but also its horses? One version I've heard has the wagon driver in there too.
Reverend D
Vague Apparition
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Glenfinnan Viaduct. It has been confirned by x-rays too. I know this cos I heard it on a podcast earlier this afternoon!
http://www.moidart.org.uk/justoutside/horseinviaduct/horseinviaduct.htm
Bad Bungle
Tutti but not Frutti.
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I love it when a local piece of Folklore is proven correct: the horse and cart was found in the wide central pier of the Loch-Nan-Uamh Viaduct and not in the Glenfinnan Viaduct (Hogwart's Express fame) as previously assumed. I wanted to find a picture of the X-ray which is apparently held at the Glenfinnan Museum, but no luck.
drbastard
Chaote
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