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Something Spooky In The Fireplace

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Jul 29, 2009
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Below is a review of Benjamin Radford's Mysterious New Mexico (2014), which I have just submitted to Amazon's UK website. It may be considered a belated reply to the same author's "The KiMo Theatre Haunting" (Fortean Times, June 2010)—essentially an earlier incarnation of the first chapter of his book—and as such may prove of interest to readers of this message board.

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Something Spooky in the Fireplace

Benjamin Radford is an objective and unfailingly painstaking investigator of all things weird and mysterious—an inveterate exposer of sloppy research, too. In a field abounding with blockheads, crackpots and charlatans, with cranks of every shade and hue, he is an exception. Yet I have serious reservations about his conclusions in the first chapter of this book concerning the alleged decades-long haunting of the KiMo Theatre in Albuquerque—or, more precisely, the poltergeist activity that purportedly once wrecked a performance there of A Christmas Carol.* According to Dennis Potter, the longtime technical director at the KiMo, "weird things" happened that day: "People were forgetting their lines, people were tripping and falling on stage, odd pieces of equipment would fall from the ceiling, light bulbs exploded. Electrical cables fell down ... light gels came off and fluttered down during dramatic moments. They were having trouble getting through the show. Windows and doors on the set were either not opening, or were opening when they weren't supposed to. It was just really weird. They almost literally didn't get through the show, there were so many disruptions." However, others involved with the performance have no recollection of anything whatever going amiss. Nor did newspaper reviews of the performance mention the odd happenings Potter recalls. Radford concludes: "I don't believe that Potter is a liar or that he's crazy; he simply did something we all do from time to time: he misremembered. Voluminous psychological research has shown that human memory is remarkably fallible. The brain is not, as many suppose, a sort of tape recorder that accurately preserves what we experience. Instead, memories change over time." I wonder.

My parents and I were plagued by poltergeistlike bangings from late 1974 to early 1976, with a respite of some weeks in the intervening summer. I was twelve when they first assailed us and, unknown to anybody but myself, had been attempting to contact the spirit world with a ouija board I had fashioned out of a sheet of cardboard. Performed with a rapidity that seemed superhuman, they would come an hour or two after sunset in bursts lasting several seconds and invariably emanated from the vicinity of our living-room fireplace—the sole fireplace in the property, unused since my early childhood. At first we were treated to just one or two bursts a week; before long an evening without at least one burst was something of an anomaly—and a relief. No likely cause was ever identified. There were only the three of us in the household—four, if you include our cat, who was as unnerved by them as we were—and from the perspective of over 40 years it seems to me that they only ever rang out when my parents and I were together in the living-room. There was no plumbing in that part of the house, no gas installed, no evidence of subsidence anywhere. The fireplace was built into an exterior wall, but there was no nearby tree whose branches could have been scraping against that wall or the chimney, and searches of our garden invariably proved fruitless, as did searches upstairs and down. Though we lived in a detached house, my father asked our next-door neighbours either side whether they, too, were hearing mysterious bangings of an evening; they said they weren't.

There were other phenomena, too. Night after night one of the doors of my wardrobe would spring open while I was trying to get to sleep. (How I came to dread the sound of its doing so!) Yet it required a hefty tug to open and never did this at any other hour. It persisted in its behaviour even when I kept two seven-pound brass weights propped against it. My cassette recorder, furthermore, took to ejecting cassettes as soon as they were inserted but only—perversely—those I was most eager to listen to. A case in point was An hour with Edgar Allan Poe, a selection of the American writer's tales read by Edgar Lustgarten. Only by keeping the cassette chamber held closed could I get it to play. I examined it from every angle, measured it this way and that and checked that the reels turned smoothly but could discern not an ounce of difference between it and cassettes my recorder was willing to play. When my father returned it to the shop from which he had bought it a day or two before, the manager had no problem at all getting it to play on one of his machines. Whatever the cause of the problem, it struck me at the time as decidedly odd, and I have since heard of the same thing happening in other apparent poltergeist cases.

At some point I began logging all these spooky occurrences in a notebook kept specifically for the purpose. Then one day I decided to capture the bangings on tape. I set up my cassette recorder in the living-room, attached a microphone to it, explained to my parents what I was up to, then waited. In due course they came—but stopped the instant I pressed the record button! And they were never heard again. I believe, indeed, that all the phenomena that had been troubling us stopped that day, never to return. And in time, our long-continued occupancy of the house that had served as the backdrop to these phenomena notwithstanding, they ceased to be a subject of conversation among us.

So, do I believe that my dalliance with a homemade ouija board conjured up something supernatural—an earthbound spirit perhaps? I have had more than four decades to mull over the evidence and consider every conceivable alternative explanation. Perhaps behind everything that happened lay something perfectly mundane. Perhaps some demented prankster with nothing better to do of an evening was amusing himself by banging on the other side of our fireplace. Perhaps my wardrobe door was prompted to spring open by some difference in air pressure, though its fit in the frame was such as to allow the flow of air in and out. Perhaps my cassette recorder's perverse behaviour had some mechanical cause that escaped all my attempts at detection. But, having read extensively on the subject of poltergeists, I believe that the phenomena that define them represent something genuinely paranormal and think it very likely that my experiments with that ouija board did attract the attention of an unwelcome, albeit not uninvited, guest.

And the relevance of my story? In 2007, five years after my father died and probably 30 or so after the subject had last been raised, I alluded to the bangings in conversation with my mother, now deceased, and was astonished to discover she had absolutely no recollection of them. I reminded her of the searches upstairs and down and in the garden, in which all three of us had taken part, my attempt to capture them on tape, the weights I had kept propped against my wardrobe door, whose purpose I remember explaining to her at the time—all to no avail. A few days later I brought up the subject again, hoping our earlier conversation might have jogged her memory in the meantime, but it hadn't.

The notebook having been disposed of decades ago, the only evidence now extant that any of this ever happened is a retrospective diary entry dated 18 April 1978, in which I mention a wardrobe door that had, in late 1974, taken to springing open at night despite requiring "quite a tug to get open," two seven-pound brass weights I had kept propped against it in a vain attempt to stop it from doing so and "inexplicable bangings" that had begun plaguing us about the same time. And that exists today only by way of a computer transcription of my old handwritten diaries made between 2012 and 2015.

If Radford were to investigate, in a spirit of strict objectivity (as he undoubtedly would), the events underlying this strange narrative of mine, he would, I fear, point out that the only other surviving witness as of 2007 could not remember a thing about them, cite the complete lack of contemporary written evidence, remind us that "[v]oluminous psychological research has shown that human memory is remarkably fallible" and that "memories change over time" and conclude: "I don't believe that Hutton is a liar or that he's crazy; he simply did something we all do from time to time: he misremembered."

No, I am not a liar. Nor, so far as I know, am I crazy. Have I simply imagined that my parents and I were routinely assailed by mysterious bangings for about one and a half years, that we made repeated searches of the house and garden to determine their cause, that my father asked our next-door neighbours either side (in my presence) whether they, too, were hearing them, that I once tried to capture them on tape, that my wardrobe door persistently sprang open at night, that I kept weights propped against it to stop it from doing so? Was that notebook a figment of my imagination, that diary entry the product of a "remarkably fallible" memory? I would have to be staggeringly, stupendously, monumentally, almost preternaturally delusional to have imagined all this and more.

As for the "[v]oluminous psychological research" to which Radford refers, what exactly does it prove? Only that some of us, not all, seriously misremember events. For example, the morning after the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster in 1986 Ulric Neisser distributed a short questionnaire to 106 students in a colleague's introductory psychology class at Emory University, asking how they had learnt about it, where they were, what they were doing and so on.† Three years later 44 of them who were still on campus completed the questionnaire afresh. The disparities between the new and the original answers were in some cases astounding. One participant, RT, first wrote: "I was in my religion class and some people walked in and started talking about [it]. I didn't know any details except that it had exploded.... Then after class I went to my room and watched the TV program talking about it and I got all the details from that." Three years later she wrote: "When I first heard about the explosion I was sitting in my freshman dorm room with my roommate and we were watching TV. It came on a news flash and we were both totally shocked." Another participant, GA, first wrote that she had heard the news in the cafeteria: it had made her so sick she had been unable to finish her lunch. Three years later she believed she had been in her dormitory room at the time: a girl in her hall screaming "The space shuttle just blew up" had prompted her to turn her television on for further particulars of the tragedy. Yet another participant, MS, who first heard the news at Emory, as had all Neisser's subjects, believed three years later that she had been at home with her parents at the time. However, many of the later responses proved at least partly right; a few almost completely so. But how, you may ask, do I know my memory is not as fickle as whatever vaguely analogous faculty resides in the heads of RT and her fellow nitwits, GA and MS? When I transcribed my diaries some years ago and found myself reading entries I had for the most part not set eyes on since writing them decades before, I was struck time and again by how accurate my recall of events was. True, there was much I had forgotten or remembered imperfectly, but my memory had not played tricks on me: I had not misremembered.

Is there voluminous psychological research on the human tendency to forget anomalous experiences? It seems not. The census of hallucinations conducted by the Society for Psychical Research between 1889 and 1892 showed that participants rapidly forgot having had either tactile, auditory or visual hallucinations.‡ Walter Franklin Prince, writing four decades later, said it was "the rule" in his experience for an "occult story" to become less detailed and colourful with the passage of time.§ It seems likely, therefore, that my mother's complete failure to remember events that had left an indelible impression on me was due simply to their having fallen outside her frame of reference. It makes me wonder whether Potter's story of actors forgetting their lines and tripping and falling on stage, of light bulbs exploding and electrical cables falling down, of windows and doors either refusing to open or opening when they were not supposed to and so on can really be dismissed as the product of an overactive imagination. It also makes me wonder how many poltergeist cases that go unreported, like mine, are later forgotten by all concerned.


* Benjamin Radford, Mysterious New Mexico (2014), pp. 5–30.

† Ulric Neisser and Nicole Harsch, "Phantom flashbulbs: False recollections of hearing the news about Challenger," in Eugene Winograd and Ulric Neisser (editors), Affect and accuracy in recall (1992), pp. 9–31.

Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research (vol. X, 1894), pp. 62–68.

§ Walter Franklin Prince, Noted Witnesses for Psychic Occurrences (1928), p. 130.
 
A splendid and detailed exploration of a real problem. Elsewhere on this board, we have sometimes discussed the way that friends or relatives have described strange events, only, later, to deny they ever occurred.

I guess that is why we are on this board and our friends, usually, are not! It does tend to make fact-checking very awkward, even when we ought to be accustomed to The Cosmic Joker.

My own single ghost-sighting was witnessed with a friend, many years ago. When the Web began, I wondered, vaguely, if he would show up and confirm what we had seen. It was several years later that I discovered he had died in 1989. Sad though that is, I am now inclined to think that, had he lived, he would have been far more likely to deny the event than confirm it! :died:
 
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I'm pretty certain that my memory is better than most though I'm aware many would say much the same, it's certainly not infallible and my short term memory is noticeably poorer than it once was. I wonder why your mum didn't remember what happened @Eric Bond Hutton, perhaps it was a painful or scary experience she had attempted to "block out" or perhaps she felt it was relatively mundane or had had become inclined to think so in the intervening period and so it was not an important set of memories. How old was she in 2007?
 
I recall (or do I?) that Rob Mcluhan, now principle editor of the online Psi Encylopedia i believe, argued in his book Randi's Prize for the existence of a psychological process he deemed "rational gravity" whereby, contrary to the usual claim, people are drawn to accepting any mundane or debunking explanation for an experience or event, however unsubstantiated that explanation may be, provided it restores our sense of normality and the peace of mind that goes with it.

I can't find the reference (perhaps i misremembered it!) but i seem to recall that he also noted evidence that - again contrary to what is generally claimed - peoples' retelling of extraordinary experiences actually diminishes with time. That's to say (by analogy) the fish that got away becomes smaller not bigger in the long term retelling. People doubt their original memories when looking back and downplay them by settling on what "must have been" or "probably was".

I stumbled on an example of myself doing this while re-reading my own posts on these boards the other day (As an aside, the FT forums are a godsend for maintaining accuracy. I tend to report things that happen to me straight away on here, so if something related occurs later im always able to find my original on the day account of the first experience, dates, times and all rather than relying on what I merely "remember remembering".) Because most of my worthwhile encounters with the fortean tend to be long winded there are occasions i look to give a brief throwaway example of an odd encounter. One such can be summarised as the day i felt an invisible someone tap me on the shoulder and and hour later found out they were taking a body away from the flat opposite, the connection between these things being one for the imagination to play with.

The relevance to this thread is that ive found when telling that throwaway anecdote i present it with great emphasis on me immediately dismissing the sensation of being touched as a muscular twitch for want of any reason to interpret it as ghostly at the time. I imply the supernatural cause occurred to me as a possibility only AFTER hearing about the death in my vicinity. That's how ive been presenting it. But the other day i stumbled on my real time account of it on these boards, and that's not how it was. It turns out the sense something uncanny had happened was present BEFORE i learned of the death. It felt so like a human touch at my shoulder that i had apparently started looking online for threads and articles about that kind of experience and had started a thread on here on the subject. I came back to the thread an hour later with an update reporting i'd just heard about they were taking a body away across the road.

In short, with regard to the actual sensation of touch itself, I clearly had a sense of the uncanny at the time far more pronounced than ive remembered and reported it subsequently.
 
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Two things spring to my mind - that's interesting that the phenomena originally focused on the fireplace, as the hearth is the traditional spot for household spirits (eg https://www.simonandschuster.com/bo...sehold-Spirits/Claude-Lecouteux/9781620551059 ) - and indeed the other focus was a door, which also has symbolism of being an entrance into a different location / world.

And the other thing, that people seem to forget very weird things that happen to them - that often comes up on these boards, as has been noted. In fact Mr E and I were only talking about this the other day as he was recounting his Weird Experience of watching a red light zooming about a forest / field in a location and manner that seemed impossible for a light controlled by a person or vehicle to be doing - and that his friend was so scared that he ran off (but now this friend doesn't remember the incident at all).

A really interesting post with much to think about, EBH - thank you!
 
I think that it is a general rule that our internal censor, whose remit is to quickly wash away or normalise any uncomfortable memories, will often operate rapidly in such circumstances. Sometimes witnesses will report that they can sense the memory traces being wiped or reduced and have to make a deliberate effort to hold on to them. In other cases they have a feeling that "you weren't meant to see that." Unless they write it all down rapidly there is a rapid loss of data.

One case I recall seeing in a back issue of FT (I think!) was of three friends who saw a man in a public park (with many others around) carrying on his shoulder a tiny doll-sized woman, who was making eye contact with people and smiling at them, despite being only a few inches tall. Years later when they met again and one raised the issue, the second denied remembering it and the third didn't want to talk about it. Maybe somebody will remember the story? This is a question that often comes up on Reddit's Glitch in the Matrix.
 
One case I recall seeing in a back issue of FT (I think!) was of three friends who saw a man in a public park (with many others around) carrying on his shoulder a tiny doll-sized woman, who was making eye contact with people and smiling at them, despite being only a few inches tall. Years later when they met again and one raised the issue, the second denied remembering it and the third didn't want to talk about it. Maybe somebody will remember the story? This is a question that often comes up on Reddit's
I remember the account very clearly. Though not clearly enough to locate it. I thought it was on these boards.
 
I wonder if the desire to 'forget it happened' results in a kind of lack of mental rehearsal which causes the memory to be 'forgotten about'. We're told that, in order to secure something into long term memory it is necessary to keep thinking it over - an act which is often done involuntarily, giving rise to spontaneous thoughts of the event, and PTSD-like flashbacks. But if there is a desire, however subconscious, to 'forget' about something which doesn't fit well with our general rational thought processes, maybe that rehearsal doesn't take place, which leads to the event being forgotten.

One of my daughters saw an ABC whilst driving home from work one night. She refused to talk about it at all after she'd got home and told us about it. I wonder if she has 'edited it out' of her memories? I'll have to ask her.
 
I wonder if the desire to 'forget it happened' results in a kind of lack of mental rehearsal which causes the memory to be 'forgotten about'. We're told that, in order to secure something into long term memory it is necessary to keep thinking it over - an act which is often done involuntarily, giving rise to spontaneous thoughts of the event, and PTSD-like flashbacks. But if there is a desire, however subconscious, to 'forget' about something which doesn't fit well with our general rational thought processes, maybe that rehearsal doesn't take place, which leads to the event being forgotten.

One of my daughters saw an ABC whilst driving home from work one night. She refused to talk about it at all after she'd got home and told us about it. I wonder if she has 'edited it out' of her memories? I'll have to ask her.
An American (or perhaps Australian) Broadcasting Company? I think I would want to edit that out as well. I wondered if it was some special Forteana term but a search brought up nothing.
 
Alien Big Cat innit. One of those mysterious big moggies that people swear they've seen (even though it can seem somewhat hard to believe). They come in various colours, mostly black and fawn. But very rarely if ever spotty. Which raises a few questions. Possibly related to the British Black Dogs (supernatural with glowing eyes - I think you've even got one Bury St Edmunds way?). Or possibly not, perhaps they're real. Variously identified as pumas, lions, jaguars, etc. And found all over the place - UK, France, Australia, probably many other places besides. I expect you've heard of them... but if not there's the 'Cryptozoology - mystery quadrupeds' part of the forum where you can read about them to your heart's content :)
 
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I remember the account very clearly. Though not clearly enough to locate it. I thought it was on these boards.

I remember this too and I also think it was posted on here, many years ago, well over 10, perhaps closer to 20.

It's possible that the tiny woman was a person particularly dramatic primordial dwarfism. The first time I saw someone with that condition was in a clip show on TV in the 90s: someone on some sort of show opened a largish bag and produced a tiny man, dressed in a mini tuxedo who then said "hello" or greeting in another language, the other full sized person screamed or jumped and you could hear studio audience reaction, it then quickly cut to the next clip. This was pre-internet being widely available, so I couldn't look it up and I didn't know an adult could be so tiny and thin, he was clearly real but it was very shocking in that context.
 
Alien Big Cat innit. One of those mysterious big moggies that people swear they've seen (even though it can seem somewhat hard to believe). They come in various colours, mostly black and fawn. But very rarely if ever spotty. Which raises a few questions. Possibly related to the British Black Dogs (supernatural with glowing eyes - I think you've even got one Bury St Edmunds way?). Or possibly not, perhaps they're real. Variously identified as pumas, lions, jaguars, etc. And found all over the place - UK, France, Australia, probably many other places besides. I expect you've heard of them... but if not there's the 'Cryptozoology - mystery quadrupeds' part of the forum where you can read about them to your heart's content :)
I would never have guessed! I knew about strange animal sightings, but not familiar with the terminology. At Bury we have also had big cats -- a 4 foot black cat in 1949, and recently gamekeepers have seen tracks of something like a leopard.
 
I remember this too and I also think it was posted on here, many years ago, well over 10, perhaps closer to 20.

It's possible that the tiny woman was a person particularly dramatic primordial dwarfism. The first time I saw someone with that condition was in a clip show on TV in the 90s: someone on some sort of show opened a largish bag and produced a tiny man, dressed in a mini tuxedo who then said "hello" or greeting in another language, the other full sized person screamed or jumped and you could hear studio audience reaction, it then quickly cut to the next clip. This was pre-internet being widely available, so I couldn't look it up and I didn't know an adult could be so tiny and thin, he was clearly real but it was very shocking in that context.
Very interesting! Of course the key thing here is not what they actually saw but how they reacted to it psychologically. Glad I'm not the only one who remembers this story but can't locate it..
 
Very interesting! Of course the key thing here is not what they actually saw but how they reacted to it psychologically. Glad I'm not the only one who remembers this story but can't locate it..

I realise that's why you brought it up, my point was that it may have been an unusual experience rather than paranormal, though the brains of the experiencers may still have had the same "rejection" action.
 
An American (or perhaps Australian) Broadcasting Company? I think I would want to edit that out as well. I wondered if it was some special Forteana term but a search brought up nothing.
Sorry, Carl, I thought the term ABC was sufficiently in general usage (certainly among Forteans) to have been instantly understood.
 
I remember this too and I also think it was posted on here, many years ago, well over 10, perhaps closer to 20.

It's possible that the tiny woman was a person particularly dramatic primordial dwarfism. The first time I saw someone with that condition was in a clip show on TV in the 90s: someone on some sort of show opened a largish bag and produced a tiny man, dressed in a mini tuxedo who then said "hello" or greeting in another language, the other full sized person screamed or jumped and you could hear studio audience reaction, it then quickly cut to the next clip. This was pre-internet being widely available, so I couldn't look it up and I didn't know an adult could be so tiny and thin, he was clearly real but it was very shocking in that context.

Yes, I think you may be right! Some people with primordial dwarfism are very tiny and slender.

I am reminded of a Canadian girl who would be 17 or 18 now, I think who is not much over 40 inches tall and weighs about 45lb. Unfortunately people with the condition tend not to live very long lives and often have some degree of learning disability. I remember reading somewhere a hypothesis that the existence of people with primordial dwarfism in ancient times may have given rise to the tales of 'little people' such as elves and pixies.

 
Well another way to think about it is that it's impossible to maintain your initial sense of awe or wonderment as an uncanny experience becomes a mere anecdote.

The comparison that occurred to me is how a joke writer can surely only laugh sincerely at his own joke a couple of times. The amusement fades with each re-reading until he's no longer sure if it's objectively funny or not. It takes someone else's reaction to confirm there's anything worthwhile there.

In the same way your jaw must stop dropping when you've reported that apparition two or three times. And the longer it is since you stopped feeling anything about it the less significant - and therefore less convincing - it becomes to you.
 
Well another way to think about it is that it's impossible to maintain your initial sense of awe or wonderment as an uncanny experience becomes a mere anecdote.

The comparison that occurred to me is how a joke writer can surely only laugh sincerely at his own joke a couple of times. The amusement fades with each re-reading until he's no longer sure if it's objectively funny or not. It takes someone else's reaction to confirm there's anything worthwhile there.

In the same way your jaw must stop dropping when you've reported that apparition two or three times. And the longer it is since you stopped feeling anything about it the less significant - and therefore less convincing - it becomes to you.
Certainly possible gattino, although I wish some of my uncanny experiences would fade into anecdotes.
 
Well another way to think about it is that it's impossible to maintain your initial sense of awe or wonderment as an uncanny experience becomes a mere anecdote.

The comparison that occurred to me is how a joke writer can surely only laugh sincerely at his own joke a couple of times. The amusement fades with each re-reading until he's no longer sure if it's objectively funny or not. It takes someone else's reaction to confirm there's anything worthwhile there.

In the same way your jaw must stop dropping when you've reported that apparition two or three times. And the longer it is since you stopped feeling anything about it the less significant - and therefore less convincing - it becomes to you.

But you can come back to a joke or funny phrase after a while of not repeating - and find it funny again. Almost as though you'd forgotten writing it. I've just been checking through a recent book of mine prior to submission to my editor, and some of the funny lines made me laugh all over again. About six weeks is usually enough to give a sense of 'distance' and 'did I write that?'
 
Well another way to think about it is that it's impossible to maintain your initial sense of awe or wonderment as an uncanny experience becomes a mere anecdote.

The comparison that occurred to me is how a joke writer can surely only laugh sincerely at his own joke a couple of times. The amusement fades with each re-reading until he's no longer sure if it's objectively funny or not. It takes someone else's reaction to confirm there's anything worthwhile there.

In the same way your jaw must stop dropping when you've reported that apparition two or three times. And the longer it is since you stopped feeling anything about it the less significant - and therefore less convincing - it becomes to you.
I'm not sure -- certainly I've repeated quite a few of my own experiences over the years, and while they may seem less significant as time passes, I don't find them less convincing. Maybe it's just that I no longer have the need to keep reassuring myself that they really happened, partly because they just keep on happening..
 
Well I suppose what I have in mind by that analogy is that the breathless "oh my god" of the initial encounter is replaced by a neutral telling by rote of an old story - if you keep telling it at all - and more interspersed with analytical references to the might have beens and could have beens that you know from experience will be suggested back to you. Absolute certainty that the debunking explanation COULDN'T have happened becomes a mere statement of personal belief that no longer has the punch of immediate memory.
 
Hi EBH, I can relate to what you're saying and how frustrating it is trying to get any sort of proof. Back in the 70's I rented a haunted bedsit with my boyfriend "C" for a few months. It was an absolute nightmare with almost daily occurrences and we were terrified and desperate to get out of there.

When I got internet access in the early 2000's C contacted me. I was writing up my paranormal experiences at the time and asked him what he remembered about that haunted bedsit without going into detail, by way of getting corroboration for what I remembered. He didn't remember anything about it. Disappointing, although not too surprising because I suspect he had NPD and bending actuality out of all recognition to avoid being wrong or responsible for anything, or in this case scared of anything, is the norm with narcs. I didn't really want to be in touch with this guy but tried again a few years later, detailing what had happened and asking how on Earth he could have forgotten all this! He replied that he DID remember, but I hadn't asked him about that (Cut & paste and his sent folder were evidently something he'd been unaware of previously). Of course his insistence that he did remember after being reminded in detail but not adding a single thing I might have forgotten or even any impressions he'd had at the time, along with his inclination to stray from the truth for convenience, meant his opinion counted for nothing as corroboration goes.

He was also involved in a situation (same period but not in the bedsit) where a crowd of people and several police officers were witness to an incident that should have been impossible if reality is as inflexible as we've been led to believe. I referred to this and a related incident and asked him what he remembered about it but he didn't pick up on it. Exasperating that the incident, if not the particulars, didn't seem to have stuck in his selective memory either because it'd been him who'd involved the police. A couple of years ago I contacted that police force and asked for any records of the incident under the Freedom of Information Act. There were none. No offence had been committed, no arrests, no record after all this time. I'm loath to make bold statements like the police were involved so there's some evidence of what I'm claiming without corroboration from at least one source.

Like you the only proof I have of any of this is one brief entry in a diary I kept at the time, where I say we've finally found a nice flat "...and at least this one isn't haunted." It's so frustrating isn't it.

I can't think of a mundane explanation for your wardrobe door being pushed/pulled open when it had 14 pounds in weight holding it shut. There'd have to be force of some sort involved. Did it open a crack or swing fully open on these occasions? If you witnessed it was it a gradual thing or sudden?

You say you lived there for a good while after and the banging never happened again, which would indicate that it wasn't being caused by something reacting to heating and then cooling from the sun against the outside wall.

Speculating wildly here; It is strange that all phenomena stopped when you tried to record it to get proof. Could it have been something trying to get the point across to you that you needed to stop trying to do exactly that by 'playing with fire' on a Ouija board? Could an objection to the darkness of Poe's stories and you having to keep your finger on the lid to make it play possibly have been something alluding to you risking getting in touch with something dark by keeping your finger on the glass/planchette? (This is nonsense if the other cassettes you had problems with were just ordinary music tapes of course.) Could the wardrobe door have been something trying to make the point that you were in danger of opening doors via the Ouija board that should stay shut? Did you have a deceased relative who was strongly opposed to such things and protective of you in life? All speculation that's easily eliminated as a consideration if you continued playing with the board after the phenomena stopped.
 
Well I suppose what I have in mind by that analogy is that the breathless "oh my god" of the initial encounter is replaced by a neutral telling by rote of an old story - if you keep telling it at all - and more interspersed with analytical references to the might have beens and could have beens that you know from experience will be suggested back to you. Absolute certainty that the debunking explanation COULDN'T have happened becomes a mere statement of personal belief that no longer has the punch of immediate memory.
True, once the shock element has gone the experience becomes more neutral in ones thinking, which is probably a good thing.
 
Maybe it's just that I no longer have the need to keep reassuring myself that they really happened, partly because they just keep on happening..
Back in the 70's I rented a haunted bedsit with my boyfriend "C" for a few months.
Hmm, . . . care to share ??? :ghunt:

(If you have already, or feel uncomfortable going down that particular memory lane, please excuse my nosiness!)
 
Hi EBH, I can relate to what you're saying and how frustrating it is trying to get any sort of proof. Back in the 70's I rented a haunted bedsit with my boyfriend "C" for a few months. It was an absolute nightmare with almost daily occurrences and we were terrified and desperate to get out of there.

When I got internet access in the early 2000's C contacted me. I was writing up my paranormal experiences at the time and asked him what he remembered about that haunted bedsit without going into detail, by way of getting corroboration for what I remembered. He didn't remember anything about it. Disappointing, although not too surprising because I suspect he had NPD and bending actuality out of all recognition to avoid being wrong or responsible for anything, or in this case scared of anything, is the norm with narcs. I didn't really want to be in touch with this guy but tried again a few years later, detailing what had happened and asking how on Earth he could have forgotten all this! He replied that he DID remember, but I hadn't asked him about that (Cut & paste and his sent folder were evidently something he'd been unaware of previously). Of course his insistence that he did remember after being reminded in detail but not adding a single thing I might have forgotten or even any impressions he'd had at the time, along with his inclination to stray from the truth for convenience, meant his opinion counted for nothing as corroboration goes.

He was also involved in a situation (same period but not in the bedsit) where a crowd of people and several police officers were witness to an incident that should have been impossible if reality is as inflexible as we've been led to believe. I referred to this and a related incident and asked him what he remembered about it but he didn't pick up on it. Exasperating that the incident, if not the particulars, didn't seem to have stuck in his selective memory either because it'd been him who'd involved the police. A couple of years ago I contacted that police force and asked for any records of the incident under the Freedom of Information Act. There were none. No offence had been committed, no arrests, no record after all this time. I'm loath to make bold statements like the police were involved so there's some evidence of what I'm claiming without corroboration from at least one source.

Hi Number Nine, could you elaborate on your haunted bedsit and the incident with the police? Start a new thread if you like, it sounds like your bedsit experiences would warrant one.
 
I am thinking back over truly traumatic incidents in my past and finding that there's a kind of 'smoothing' that goes on after a few years, where you can recall the incident but most of the worst of the emotions have been ironed out, so it's more like watching an upsetting TV programme than actually being involved.

But we must have a mechanism for this in the brain. The birth of my first baby was scary, very painful, quite traumatic - and yet I went on to have four more. If we could remember, truly remember how horrific childbirth is, we'd never have more babies in a lot of cases. So maybe the brain has a function for making us forget to a certain degree, how bad these things can be to ensure the continuation of the species and to stop us living in a perpetual fug of fear of these traumatic things happening again?
 
I am thinking back over truly traumatic incidents in my past and finding that there's a kind of 'smoothing' that goes on after a few years, where you can recall the incident but most of the worst of the emotions have been ironed out, so it's more like watching an upsetting TV programme than actually being involved.

But we must have a mechanism for this in the brain. The birth of my first baby was scary, very painful, quite traumatic - and yet I went on to have four more. If we could remember, truly remember how horrific childbirth is, we'd never have more babies in a lot of cases. So maybe the brain has a function for making us forget to a certain degree, how bad these things can be to ensure the continuation of the species and to stop us living in a perpetual fug of fear of these traumatic things happening again?
I think you are absolutely right. When my mother died seven years after having a complete mental and physical breakdown, and I had been her sole carer (because she thought everyone else wanted to kill her), I felt an immediate sense of relief. But a week or two later, after the funeral, I glanced at the journal I had kept of her daily condition, a thick batch of scrawled notes actually, and was immediately confronted with the full horror of what had happened. I recalled the evidence about concentration camp survivors -- those who couldn't forget the horrors they had endured remained in an horrendous condition, those who could forget them made a full recovery and adapted to their new lives. So I immediately threw all the notes away, and aside from a few isolated exceptions, I managed to forget, and was a lot happier for it! I can't really compare this to having a baby, mind you. But I think this is one of the situations where Freud was correct, we do tend to repress horrible memories, and thank goodness we can.
 
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