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16th Century UM's?

Quetzelcoatl

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Aug 2, 2002
Messages
476
Here are some alleged facts about the 1500s in England - or early UM's?

==============================
Most people got married in June, because they took their yearly
bath in May and still smelled pretty good by June.
However, as time passed they were starting to smell, so brides
carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odour.
==============================
Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the
house had the privilege of the nice clean water; followed by his
sons, and other men living under the same roof. Then came the
women and finally the children. Last of all were the babies. By
then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it,
hence the saying, "Don't throw the baby
out with the bath water."
==============================
Houses had thatched roofs--thick straw, piled high, with no wood
underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all
the dogs, cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the
roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the
animals would slip and fall off the roof, thus came the saying,
"It's raining cats and dogs."
==============================
There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house either.
This posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other
droppings could really mess up your nice clean bed. Hence, a bed
with big posts and a sheet hung over the top afforded some
protection. That's how canopy beds came into
existence.
==============================
The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt,
hence the saying "dirt poor."
The wealthy had slat floors that would get slippery in the winter
when wet, so they spread thresh (straw) on the floor to help keep
their footing. As the winter wore on, they kept adding more thresh
until when you opened the door it would all start slipping outside.
piece of wood was placed in the entrance way creating a "thresh
hold."
==============================
In those old days, they cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that
always hung over the fire. Every day they lighted the fire and
added things to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables without much
meat. They would eat the stew for dinner, leaving leftovers in the
pot to get cold overnight, then start over the next day. Oftentimes
the kettle contained the same stew for quite a while, hence the
rhyme, "peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold, peas porridge in
the pot nine days old."

==============================
Families that could obtain pork considered themselves quite
special. When visitors came over, they would hang up their bacon
to show off. It was an outward sign of wealth that a man could
"bring home the bacon." Another indication was to cut off a sliver
of bacon to share with guests and sit around to "chew the fat."
==============================
Those with money had plates made of pewter. Unknowingly at the
time, food with a high acid content
caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead
poisoning and death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so
for the next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered
poisonous.
===============================
Most people did not have pewter plates, but had trenchers, a piece
of wood with the middle scooped out like a bowl. Often trenchers
were made from stale bread, which was so old and hard that they
could be reused for quite some time. Trenchers were never
washed, and worms and mould got into the wood and old bread.
After eating off wormy, mouldy trenchers, one would get "trench
mouth".
==============================
Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burnt
bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the
top, or "upper crust."
==============================
Lead cups were used to drink ale or whiskey.
The combination would sometimes knock them out for a couple of
days. Someone walking along roadside would often take them for
dead, and prepare them for burial. The "deceased" were laid out on
the kitchen table for a couple of days and families would gather
around, and eat, drink and wait to see
if the party would wake up, thus began the custom of holding a
"wake."
=============================
England is old and in some small villages the locals started
running out of places to bury people. They would dig up coffins and
would take the bones to a "bone-house" and reuse the grave.
When re-opening coffins, one out of 25 coffins were found to have
scratch marks on the inside.
Realizing they had been burying people alive came the thought of
looping a string around the wrist of the corpse, through a hole in
the coffin, and up through the ground attached to a bell. Someone
had to sit in the graveyard all night (the "graveyard shift") to
listen for the bell; thus, someone could be "saved by the bell" or was
considered a "dead ringer."
 
Well, they all sound plausible apart from the last one. How does sitting in a graveyard listening for bells equate with being an exact lookalike for someone?
 
Hmm, I'm not sure any of them ring true IMHO. Particularly the one about taking baths, and the 'animals in the roof' one.
 
Adrian Veidt said:
How does sitting in a graveyard listening for bells equate with being an exact lookalike for someone?

they do this in parts of Mexico. Lie stiffs in a mortuary with a bell tied to the toe and a 24 hour watchman.

some of the above sound plausible, like Threshold, but raining cats and dogs? Do we say "the rain was coming down in stairrods" because aincent stairrods, er, slipped off the stairs during storms?
 
ethelred said:
they do this in parts of Mexico. Lie stiffs in a mortuary with a bell tied to the toe and a 24 hour watchman.

I don't doubt it, but that still doesn't answer my question. What has it got to do with being someones double?

And I think that stair rods is derived from the rain coming down hard and straight. Generally, the only analogous object in an average household would be the rods on the stairs (if by that they mean the ones holding up the bannisters)
 
so brides
carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odour.

even in the 15th Century you'd think they could have a bit wash before jumping into bed with their intended.

maybe they wed in June because its nicer than Janurary, and carried flowers because they wanted to look pretty.

a lot of the above seems to be a case of 'make the facts fit the story' rather than writing the story around the facts.

wonder what UM's they did have in the 15th C?
 
I think it may be assumed a little too much that people in the past didn't try and stay clean, and try and make their living conditions a little better. I'm not sure what the bouquest was originally used for - probably decoration. At some weddings, fuze was used instead, perhaps as a pun. The old 'somthing old, something new...etc' rhyme used to be 'Something old, something new, something borrowed, and a sprig of furze'. Another version replaced the 'sprig of furze' with '...and a hedgepig'. Said animals were sometimes placed in the bed of the newlyweds, as a phallic pun.
 
Back in the 6th century people didn't bathe or bathed only rarely. The reason for this was...health! During the 14th century, the Black Death and other maladies were thought to be airborne (malaria, for instance, means "bad air"). Bathing was thought to open the pores (probably did) and thus expose the bather to a higher risk of contagion.

I do suspect that brides-to-be and their grooms bathed.

June being wedding season is a holdover from ancient Rome. The Roman religious calendar deemed mid-April to mid-June an unlucky or ill-omened time for weddings so there were generally a rash of nuptuals in the days following the bad-luck period.

Why? I dunno, go ask an ancient Roman priest.
 
I think that he bell thing was certainly practiced in victorian times because of people's mortal fear of being buried alive*), but i have never heard this relating to mediaeval times

* BTW, i remember hearing a ghost story about someone being terrified of beiung buried alive - after it nearly happened to her. so she made sure she was mummified. and her, er, mummy allegedly haunts some barn. anyone can remember the rest for me?
 
Faggus said:
* BTW, i remember hearing a ghost story about someone being terrified of beiung buried alive - after it nearly happened to her. so she made sure she was mummified. and her, er, mummy allegedly haunts some barn. anyone can remember the rest for me?

lots of UM's about buried alive, since its everyones favourite dread.

saw a programme a couple of years ago about a US midwest community of Polish immigrants in 19th century with way above average suicide & murder rates. They dug up the graveyard in 1970's to put in a road and one in three coffins had claw marks on lids.
 
People did wear masks or nose-cones filled with perfumes or aromatics during the Plague, to repel the stench of death and decay. Sometimes they held bouquets up to their nose.

These devices were known as "nosegays," IIRC.
 
I thought nosegays were some kind of glasses: The herb things are pomanders
 
Adrian Veidt said:
And I think that stair rods is derived from the rain coming down hard and straight. Generally, the only analogous object in an average household would be the rods on the stairs (if by that they mean the ones holding up the bannisters)
No, stair rods are used to hold the stair carpet in place. Often made of brass, they held the carpet in the corner between each step and the next riser.
 
A 'nosegay' is a small bunch of flowers, as is a 'maid marion'.
 
JerryB said:
Hmm, I'm not sure any of them ring true IMHO. Particularly the one about taking baths . . .

Well, Queen Elizabeth I had a bath every year 'whether she needed it or not'!

And it isn't so long ago that lower class people used to sew their children into warm underwear for the winter and cut the whole smelly lot off when the warmer weather arrived . . .

Carole
 
Adrian Veidt said:
And I think that stair rods is derived from the rain coming down hard and straight. Generally, the only analogous object in an average household would be the rods on the stairs (if by that they mean the ones holding up the bannisters)
No, stair rods aren't part of the bannisters, they're the metal rods that hold the stair carpet in place on each step.
EDIT: Ooops - should read all the posts in a thread before I satart posting!
 
carole said:
Well, Queen Elizabeth I had a bath every year 'whether she needed it or not'!

Yes, but she didn't work out in the fields for a living ;) And is this thing about Queen Liz actually true?
 
with regards to bathing.

my mum has a public information type poster from the 1930's telling you that you should wash and change your underwear once a week.

Once a week!!!!!.

I too am not sure about any of them either. Although I do know that humans and animals used to live in the same building as the animal provided the humans with extra warmth.
 
I can remember as a child having a bath once a week and, the other 6 days having what my mother called 'a good wash'. Howq times change, now I couldn't bear the thought of going a day without a shower or bath . . .

I've tried a google on the Queen Liz bath thing, but can't find any reliable sources . . .

Carole
 
carole said:
And it isn't so long ago that lower class people used to sew their children into warm underwear for the winter and cut the whole smelly lot off when the warmer weather arrived . . .
I seem to remember a documentary, possibly about however it is lived in yurts (Mongolians?), they (until relatively recently) would sew the kids into a big knickers padded with powdered yak dung, which would absorb the wee etc. Supposedly it's so cold where they live that nothing smells anyway. I find that last bit hard to believe.
 
Why would you claw at the top of a coffin you had been buried alive in?

An exercise in futility methinks............Passes the time though I suppose :p

Me, I'm taking my mobile.
 
ethelred said:
==============================
Houses had thatched roofs--thick straw, piled high, with no wood
underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all
the dogs, cats and other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the
roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the
animals would slip and fall off the roof, thus came the saying,
"It's raining cats and dogs."
==============================

Have come across this olde worlde urban myth many times on the net - along with some of the others in ethelred's list.

Livestock were certainly kept in the house in the past - and still are in some third world countries - but they ALWAYS stayed on the ground floor. It was the humans who slept on raised platforms.
 
Phrase derivation

Here we go, then: best site in the world for this is "Take Our Word For It", and issue 39 (May 99) deals specifically with all of the listed Elizabethan UMs, and more:just click right here: the section is titled "Words to the wise" :)

For example, Raining cats and dogs:
The origins of this curious phrase, which originated in the 17th century, have been lost, but the current accepted theory is that, due to the primitive drainage systems used in the 17th century, a heavy rainstorm could cause gutters to overflow with much debris, including garbage, sewage, and dead animals. Other possibilities include the notion that a severe storm could be considered similar to cats and dogs fighting, or that in Northen European mythology, it is believed that cats influence the weather and dogs reprsent wind.

Dirt poor:
This is an American expression, unknown in England and it means simply "as poor as dirt". Besides which, dirt has never meant "earth" in England; it comes from the Old English word drit, "excrement".

In fact, both rich and poor covered their earthen floors with rushes. If they cared to, they would also strew aromatic herbs about.

They're all there. And one of them's true!

Stu

*EDIT* Anyone else heard what they say about tomatoes being unknown here til the 19th Century? Seems a little unlikely...
 
There's a whole thread about Tomatoes, (and they may have been discussed elsewhere too). :)
 
I thought weddings were popular in June because a baby conceived soon after would be born the following spring, giving warmer weather during the crucial early months. Also a winter pregnancy would not inconvenience the community too much as not much agricultural work was done in winter.

The 'threshold' is the raised doorstep of a threshing house, which needed to be higher than the floor to keep the precious grain inside during the vigorous work.
 
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