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A Question To Christians Everywhere

None but Himself ...

"I would like to know then, how Christians the world over, can come to terms with the worship of saints.....the worship of Mary the mother of Jesus.....and even the worship of Jesus himself. If god instructed men to worship none but himself, why is it acceptable for christians to worship these additional persons ?"

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As a Catholic I would like to clarify that none who know their faith actually "worship" saints (a "saint" being defined as someone we can reasonably be assured has achieved their heavenly reward), nor do they "worship" the Blessed Virgin Mary. Catholics, like Christians everywhere who are orthodox in their expression of the faith, worship only God.

There are three aspects of the Mystery we refer to as God:

"And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another; but the whole three Persons are co-eternal together; and co-equal." - The Athanasian Creed

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are three manifestations of the one God.

The term "Triad" was first used by Theophilus of Antioch (circa 180) for this concept; the term "Trinity" was introduced by Tertullian in circa 217 in his treatise Adversus Praxean.
 
sam said:
I think the Virgin Mary thing is a bit of a spin job. She didn't stay a virgin. Jesus had brothers who were created in the normal way.
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A bit late, I know, but I thought I'd try to answer.

I think 'virgin' refers to her virgin birth, which doesn't have anything to do with her being a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, but means that she was born without sin, unlike the rest of us.
 
Sorry, Sally, no. The Virgin Birth refers to the conception of Jesus - 'A virgin shall conceive and bear a son' ie without sexual intercourse. The Immaculate Conception is the belief that Mary was born without Original Sin, but in the normal manner, although her mother, St. Anne, was childless for 20 years until visited by an angel and told to go and greet her husband, St. Joachim.
 
Much dispute exists re the translation of the word 'virgin'. More importantly which Hebrew word for virgin has been translated into Greek. Since one of the words for virgin can also simply be translated as 'young woman'. IE - no miracle. Though, of course, every birth is a miracle.

This is discused here for example. The article here may be even better. Google will almost certainly turn up more definitive answers.
 
The term "Triad" was first used by Theophilus of Antioch (circa 180) for this concept; the term "Trinity" was introduced by Tertullian in circa 217 in his treatise Adversus Praxean.
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= Brewer's Dictionary Of Phrase & Fable
 
"= Brewer's Dictionary Of Phrase & Fable" - Simon Smith

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Actually not.

I do not possess "Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase & Fable."

What is Smith's problem? Any attempt to discuss a subject reasonably, and to make some sort of contribution towards it, results in Simon Smith popping up with his snide inferences and "superior" attitude, as though we were all sitting in a classroom somewhere and he is the "know it all" pupil who gets on everyone's nerves.

Yet, like so many "know it alls," he also invariably gets it wrong.
 
Your own source referenced Brewer's. The paragraph appears here and here. Brewer's is cited as the original source.

Why not simply reference your quotes?

If you quote verbatim, from what are actually relatively famous texts, as you have several times previously, but in your own 'voice' and without reference -> then it seems like an impression.

[BTW - I thought all clergy owned a copy of Brewer's.]
 
To make sure Uncle Simon is happy :)D ), I got this from the Bibliomainia ed. of Brewer, and feel its worth quoting in full. It addresses the uniqueness (or not) of the Trinity.

Trinity Tertullian (160-240) introduced this word into Christian theology. The word triad is much older. Almost every mythology has a threefold deity. (See Three .)
American Indians. Otkon, Messou, and Atahuata.
Brahmins. Their “tri-murti” is a three-headed deity, representing Brahma (as creator), Vishnu (as preserver), and Siva (as destroyer).
Cells. Hu, Ceridwen, and Craiwy.
Cherusci, A three-headed god called Triglat.
Chinese have the trible goddess Pussa.
Druids. Taulac, Fan, and Mollac.
Egyptians. Osiris, Isis, and Horus.
Elousinian Mysteries. Bacchus, Persophone (4 syl.), and Demeter.
Goths. Woden, Frigga, and Thor.
Greece (ancient). Zeus (1 syl.), Aphrodite, and Apollo.
Icsini of Britain. Got, Ertha, and Issus.
Memcans. Vitzputzli, Tlaloc, and Tezcatlipoca.
Perucians. Apomti, Chureonti, and Chemoth.
Persians (ancient). Their “Triplasian deity” was Oromasdes, Mithras, and Arimanes.
Phoenicious. Astaroth, Mileom, and Chemoth.
Romans (ancient). Jupiter (divine power), Minerva (divine Logos or wisdom), and Juno (called “amor et delicium Jovis”).- Vossins: De Theologia Gentil, viii. 12. Their three chief deities were Jupiter, Neptnne, and Pluto.
Scandinavians. Odin (who gave the breath of life), Hænir (who gave sense and motion), and Lodur (who gave blood, colour, speech, sight, an hearing).
Tyrians. Belus, Venus, and Tamuz, etc.
Orpheus (2 syl.). His triad was Phanes, Uranos, and Kronos.
Plato. His triad was To Agathon (Goodness). Nous or Eternal Wisdom (architect of the World) (see Proverbs iii. 19), and Psyche (the mundane soul).
Pythagoras. His triad was the Monad or Unity, Nous or Wisdom, and Psyche

Three 'independent' yet linked deities... I thought it was interesting.

Bibliomaania - you can look it up like I did

8¬)
 
First published 1870, Brewer's is a great reference. I'm certain that all theologians have a copy. Unfortunately the online version is very incomplete. Perhaps it isn't finished yet.

So I've been reading my own copy over lunch. This is what it says about the number three:

Three.

Pythagoras calls three the perfect number, expressive of "beginning, middle and end", wherefore he makes it a symbol of Diety.

A Trinity is by no means confined to the Christian creed. The Brahmins represent their god with three heads; the world was supposed by the ancients to be under the rule of three gods, viz. Jupiter (heaven), Neptune (sea) and Pluto (Hades). Jove is represented with three forked lightning, Neptune with a trident, and Pluto with a three-headed dog. The Fates are three, the Furies three, the Sibylline books are three times three (of which only three survived); the fountain from which Hylas drew water was presided over by three nymphs; the Muses were three times three; the pythoness sat on a three-legged stool or tripod; and in Scandinavian mythology we hear of the "Mysterious Three", viz. "Har" (the Mighty), the "Like - Mighty" and the "Third Person" who sat on three thrones above the rainbow.

Man is threefold (body, soul and spirit); the world is threefold (earth, sea and air); the enemies of man are threefold (the world, the flesh and the devil); the Christian graces are threefold (Faith, Hope and Charity); the kingdoms of Nature are threefold (mineral, vegetable and animal); the cardinal colours are three in number (red, yellow and blue). etc.
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Brewer's Dictionary Of Phrase & Fable, Cassel, London, (Ed) 1954.

See also nine :eek:
 
Helen said:
Sorry, Sally, no. The Virgin Birth refers to the conception of Jesus...
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Oups, I stand corrected. Thanks, Helen. I'm afraid I'm a bit behind with my Bible studies.
 
The term "Triad" was first used by Theophilus of Antioch (circa 180) for this concept; the term "Trinity" was introduced by Tertullian in circa 217 in his treatise Adversus Praxean.

= Brewer's Dictionary Of Phrase & Fable
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Actually not.

I do not possess "Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase & Fable."
.....
Yet, like so many "know it alls," he also invariably gets it wrong.
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Er no. You are wrong. The information does not simply reference Brewer's ... it is lifted, word for word, from the great book.

Ahem ... the exact paragraph appears, as quoted by you, on p1201 of the corrected (2001) paperback Millenium Edition.
 
Open Question

Simon/Exo

I've said this before, and I'll say it here... so few people actually supply rock solid refences on this board this nit picking and tit-for-tatting isnt constructive. Most of our refernces *can* be found by anyone competant with a search engine anyway. So, can we just leave this please?

Harley
 
Limping from thread to thread whining about it is technically spamming!
 
harlequin said:
Limping from thread to thread whining about it is technically spamming!
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True. The Bishop is turning into a troll.

Up until today, I'd have said he was as much sinned against as sinning, but this behaviour is bizzarre.

The result is my inbox got some 37 emails, and I'd only just checked it a couple of hours before. He won't win friends this way.
 
I thought Peter asked Christ who He was, and He replied by asking him, "Well, who do you think I am?" Peter said, "My Lord and my God," and Jesus said, essentially "Bingo! Don't tell anyone yet, it'll be our secret until I'm ready to spill it."

Obviously, I'm paraphrasing.

[EDIT]Actually, I had I wrong. In the above instance (Matthew 16: 13-20), He only admitted to being the Messiah. However, during the whole Doubting Thomas episode, Thomas claimed (after sticking his finger in Christ's side) that Jesus was divine (John 20: 25-29).[/EDIT]
 
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