Countries Which Don't Exist (Self-Declared; Unrecognized; etc.)

rynner2

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lawofnations said:
And Cornwall!
:roll: Yes, there are a few down here who think that Cornwall should be a country in its own right.

Petty nationalism, if you ask me. Supported by dubious historical interpretations which try to ignore how famous Cornish folk were actually a cornerstone of the English (and British) expansion into the wider world of commerce, war and colonialization (be it right or wrong).

As one example, I offer Admiral 'Dreadnought' Boscowen of Tregothnan.

Go Google - I've said enough! 8)
 

Yithian

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lawofnations said:
theyithian said:
We English would quite like freedom from our Scottish PM, Chancellor, Defence Secretary, Secretary for Intl. development. - Not to mention incessant whinging about the English yoke.
Ah, but would you like an English PM, Chancellor, Defence Secretary and Secretary for Intl. Development who were English within a British state, or an English one?
I meant we'd (mostly) like to free of Messrs. Brown, Darling, Brown, & Alexander - Personally.

The other point is that the Scottish are hardly under-represented at Westminister.

Your point about English tax-grabbing whinges is fair comment.

I'm not in favour of an independent Scotland or England.
 

Dr_Baltar

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theyithian said:
We English would quite like freedom from our Scottish PM, Chancellor, Defence Secretary, Secretary for Intl. development. - Not to mention incessant whinging about the English yoke.
I presume the irony of that statement was fully intended? :p
 

rynner2

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His Tremendousness dies, aged 73
His Tremendousness Giorgio I, the "prince" of the self-proclaimed principality of Seborga near the Italian Riviera, has died at the age of 73.
By Nick Squires in Rome
Published: 11:12PM GMT 25 Nov 2009

Giorgio Carbone, a former flower grower, spent nearly 50 years championing the rights of the tiny village, which he said should be recognised as an independent state because it had never been formally included in the unification of Italy in the 19th century.

He was elected prince of what would have been Europe's tiniest state in 1963 and took the title "Sua Tremendita" or "Your Tremendousness".

He launched several attempts to have the sleepy village, about 30 miles inland from the Italian Riviera, recognised as an independent country, introducing a separate currency, the "luigino", as well as stamps and a flag – a white cross on a blue background.

Visitors to the village, in Liguria close to the border with France, were greeted by a sign which read – "Principality of Seborga".

It has a patron saint, St Bernard, and a Latin motto - Sub Umbra Sede ("Sit in the shade").

His life-long campaign was featured in a 2005 BBC comedy documentary, "How To Start Your Own Country", about the worldwide phenomenon of self-proclaimed microstates.

Frustrated by the Italian government's reluctance to take them seriously, His Tremendousness and his 360 "subjects" launched a renewed push for autonomy in 2006, with plans to create their own pension and health policies.

"Then we really will be independent," he told the national news agency, Ansa. "We have nothing against Italy, it's just that we're not part of it and our administration should reflect that." The Serborghini maintained that their village was a principality of the Holy Roman Empire from the 11th century until 1729, when it was acquired by the Prince of Piedmont.

They claimed that when Italy was united under the Savoy dynasty in 1861, Seborga was not formally listed as being part of the newly formed state and was therefore legally a separate nation.

In 2006, Prince Giorgio successfully fought off a challenge from a woman who claimed she was the true descendant of a 13th century Holy Roman Emperor, styling herself Princess Yasmine von Hohenstaufen Anjou Plantagenet.

The future of the Serborghini "royal" line is now uncertain – Prince Giorgio left no heirs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ed-73.html
 

BlackPeter

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Freedom for us West Saxons with our capital re-established at Tamworth Castle!! Drive back the Celts :D
 

rynner2

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All this merry banter is more suited to Disunited Kingdom than this thread, folks! 8)
 
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Transdniestria may not officially exist but it certainly acts as if it does.

Transdniestria ready to host Russian rockets, says leader

DANIEL McLAUGHLIN

Tue, Feb 16, 2010

THE BREAKAWAY Moldovan region of Transdniestria is ready to host Russian rockets in response to US plans to create a controversial missile defence system in Europe.

Igor Smirnov, the leader of the pro-Moscow region that broke free of Moldova’s control in an early-1990s war, said he would welcome any Kremlin request regarding the deployment of Russia’s tactical Iskander missiles.

“We are not against the presence of Russian troops with standard or any other weapons on our territory,” he said during a visit to Moscow yesterday.

“As far as the Iskander is concerned, we have long said we are ready,” he added.

Transdniestria is a tiny strip of land wedged between Ukraine and Moldova proper, which is home to a huge Soviet-era arms dump guarded by Russian troops. Critics of Mr Smirnov accuse him of running the territory like a personal fiefdom, cracking down on opponents and profiting from smuggling of everything from cigarettes to weapons – charges that he denies.

The opaque and isolated territory, whose self-proclaimed independence is not recognised internationally, is home mostly to Russian-speakers who fought free of Moldovan rule after the collapse of the Soviet Union, amid fears that Moldova could seek to unite with neighbouring Romania, with whom the majority of its people share a language and strong cultural and historical ties.

Russia has given passports to many residents of Transdniestria, causing alarm among Moldovans, who note that Moscow also gave citizenship to people living in separatist regions of Georgia before it went to war with Tbilisi and recognised the provinces’ independence in 2008.

Mr Smirnov’s offer to the Kremlin came just days after Romania and Bulgaria joined Poland and the Czech Republic in volunteering to play a role in Washington’s plans for a defence system in Europe.

Russian generals say the plan is delaying agreement on a new nuclear arms reduction treaty.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/wor ... 51462.html
 

SHAYBARSABE

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Anyone mention Ecotopia, yet?

The States of Washington, Oregon, and Coastal Northern California (draw the line at Santa Barbara), could form this one: or at least that event is discussed in cafes around here.

It's speculated that these locations would either become one legality or petition to join Canada.

Although where that would leave Microsoft, I do not know.
 

rynner2

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SHAYBARSABE said:
Anyone mention Ecotopia, yet?
I had to look that up in Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia

Seems it was a book:

Ecotopia: The Notebooks and Reports of William Weston is the title of a seminal utopian novel by Ernest Callenbach, published in 1975. The society described in the book is one of the first ecological utopias and was influential on the counterculture, and the green movement in the 1970s and thereafter.

....

The book is set in 1999 (25 years in the future, as seen from 1974) and consists of the diary entries and reports of William Weston, a mainstream media reporter who is the first American proper to investigate Ecotopia, a newly formed country that broke from the USA in 1980. Prior to Weston's investigative reporting, most Americans had not been allowed to enter the new country, which is depicted as being on continual guard against revanchism. The new nation of Ecotopia consists of Northern California, Oregon and Washington; it is hinted that Southern California is a lost cause. The book is presented as a combination of narrative from Weston's diary and dispatches that he transmits to his publication, the mythical Times-Post.

etc...
 

linesmachine

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A bit closer to home (for those in the UK atleast) I had a guy on the phone at work a few weeks ago who asked if I could send something to two of his companies offices in different counties in the UK. "which counties are those?" I asked, to which he replied "Rutland and Radnorshire". I had to check a map to make sure they were legit. :(
 

rynner2

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Both have gone and come back!

"Rutland is the oldest and smallest County in England and has only recently been reinstated after it was amalgamated with neighbouring Leicestershire in the early 1970's under great protest from the locals, who finally won over the government."
http://www.bigcats.org.uk/world-visitors.html

"Radnorshire
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...
The county was abolished by the Local Government Act 1972 in 1974, with its area being transferred to the new county of Powys.[3] [4] Powys was divided into three districts, one of which (Radnor) was coterminous with Radnorshire. The district was renamed Radnorshire in 1989.
Since Powys became a unitary authority in 1996, Radnorshire has been one of three areas formed under a decentralisation scheme. A "shire committee" consisting of councillors elected for electoral divisions within the former district of Radnorshire exercises functions delegated by Powys County Council"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radnorshire
 

linesmachine

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See, I didn't know any of that. Which makes me feel a bit better since for the majority of my lifetime neither has been a county. Further reading reveals "Huntingdonshire" is likely to granted County status before long, currently it's part of Cambs. One other oddity of an address we once had was when a previous employee move to Norway and phoned to ask for a written reference. The address..."Bastard, Norway."
 

Timble2

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I live in Huntingdon and they've been campaigning for separate County status again in the 14 years since I've been here. Unfortunately it'll make the council even more convinced of it's own importance and blow more money on it's self promoting schemes, while arguing that they can't afford to run the public toilets.
 

rynner2

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Ecotopia for real?

A world away from Texas
There are calls for Oregon, Washington and British Columbia to split from the US and Canada. Cascadia is not a bad idea
Peter Preston guardian.co.uk, Sunday 28 February 2010 21.00 GMT

One (Olympic) flame dies – but maybe another flame flickers back into life. All hail Cascadia, the nationalist dream of a new, free land that puts the environment, culture and liberal values first? Don't laugh (though don't get too carried away either). The name may sound somewhere between patent water softener and Prisoner of Zenda. The logic of the idea, however, has plenty of hard thinking behind it.

In a sense, Thomas Jefferson started things rolling long ago. He saw no particular reason why any fledgling US should stretch to the Pacific. He was quite happy to countenance a separate republic way to the west. And so, of course, were the people who built the distant country where Oregon, Washington and British Columbia met. They dreamed of their own Cascadia, after the range of Cascade mountains that bound them together. They felt – as many still feel – that rule from Washington or Ottawa is governance simply too far.

What? You hadn't heard about the Cascadian Nationalist party and its entirely civil pursuit of separatism? That's not entirely surprising. When al-Qaida tore down New York's twin towers, it also put up walls of bureaucracy along the border that made driving from Vancouver to Seattle heavy duty security business. Stop, as I've done, at the Blaine frontier post where Highway 99 meets Interstate 5 and you'll find rather more hassle than at Dover to Calais.

But there is, nonetheless, some practical power here. Portland, Seattle and Vancouver are an almost continuous metropolitan belt. Think Leeds to Manchester to Liverpool. The maze of islands and promontories around Puget Sound make one natural entity. And the values of politics, almost of instinctive belief, are consistent too. Abortion, euthanasia, co-ops, gay marriage – even socialism as a word that may sometimes mutter its name? Cascadia might sit quite happily just outside Stockholm. Bush, Cheney, Fox News and Tea Party Texas are a world away.

Now, of course, Cascadia isn't going to happen anytime soon. Indeed, except in a freedom lite version, it will probably never happen. But there are plenty of reasons for warming over the embers.

One is simple physical logic. Cascadia is a fit, a world top 20 economy waiting to happen, as well as a meeting of minds. But even talking about it puts a country and a political system we ought to talk about constantly high in the frame. For Americans, too much of the time, are patronisingly racist about Canada (think Irish or Polish jokes) and much too prone to play the Nafta bully when trade push comes to shove. The British press may not have saluted Vancouver's Olympic organisation, or weather, with quite the humility necessary for 2012 – but too many American journalists strode fresh off the plane with a bad case of curled lip.

Yet why, pray, is the Canadian way – or the Cascadian way – any more outlandish than the Mad Hatter's tea party antics currently transfixing Washington DC? And why is constitutional change, as opposed to rightwing rage, such a forbidden American subject?

Britain talks constitutional upheaval constantly: devolution, voting systems, local government, the lot. Europe embraces historic upheaval. But America, stuck with a duff legislative balance and party system prone to deliver only mush, pork barrels and impotence, can't find a way to adjust. That's what makes Cascadia such an alluring prospect.

Why should Portland have to put up with San Antonio's tunes? Who needs manic fundamentalist rows that don't resound across Puget Sound? Cascadia may never join the UN, but it's an idea of cohesion and radical progress whose day ought to come. At the very least, there's a region here, a region that ought to count – and it would light a flame under much DC beltway baloney if it did.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... washington
 

cheeky381

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Rynner2;

"Rutland is the oldest and smallest County in England and has only recently been reinstated after it was amalgamated with neighbouring Leicestershire in the early 1970's under great protest from the locals, who finally won over the government."

I heard/read once that Rutland was only the smallest county in the UK for half of the year. The other half it's the Isle of Wight. And that's because of tidal action (so when the tide is in on the Isle, it's the smallest county!)

Not sure just how true that is?!
 

rynner2

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Rutland: 152.1 M^2

IOW: 147 M^2

(Figures from Wolfram Alpha.)

Assuming the IOW figure is taken at Mean sea level (the ordnance survey datum), then I guess it could be greater in area than Rutland at low spring tides. (But this would be for at lot less than half a year.)

I think we need a professional geographer with more detailed data to help us!

EDIT:

However, put your hands together for the Isles of Scilly, which is a Unitary Authority (like the IOW), at just 5.792M^2! 8)
 

rynner2

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A unitary authority is a type of local authority that has a single tier and is responsible for all local government functions within its area or performs additional functions which elsewhere in the relevant country are usually performed by national government or a higher level of sub-national government.

Typically unitary authorities cover towns or cities which are large enough to function independently of county or other regional administration. Sometimes they consist of national sub-divisions which are distinguished from others in the same country by having no lower level of administration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_authority

In Britain, several large cities, with surrounding areas of land (London, Bristol, Birmingham, etc), have been separated off from the traditional county structure, in effect becoming new counties themselves. And other areas also govern themselves, such as Scilly, which is not part of Cornwall.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isles_of_S ... government
With a total population of just over 2,000, the council represents fewer inhabitants than many English parish councils, and is by far the smallest English unitary council.
8)

As for the IOW: In the past, the Isle of Wight has been part of Hampshire. In 1890, it became an independent administrative county, although it continued to share the Lord Lieutenant of Hampshire. In 1974, it was reconstituted as a non-metropolitan and ceremonial county, with its own Lord Lieutenant, and recognised as a postal county. With a single Member of Parliament and 132,731 permanent residents in 2001, it is also the most populous parliamentary constituency in the United Kingdom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wight

The Isle of Wight forms a single constituency of the House of Commons, with an electorate of 108,253 (as of 2004[update]). This is by far the largest electorate in the country, and more than 50% above the England average of 70,026
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Wi ... nstituency)

(I never knew that! :D )
 

rynner2

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Here's a country which doesn't exist - yet: Newstralia

Long article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8612287.stm
...the suicide of New Zealand. No not suicide in New Zealand but a proposal to cash in the country's independence and become instead, the seventh state of the Australian commonwealth. An opinion poll has suggested that no less than one in four New Zealanders are in favour of this startling departure, and fully a half of the polled want to begin serious debate about it.
 

lawofnations

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rynner2 said:
Here's a country which doesn't exist - yet: Newstralia

Long article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8612287.stm
...the suicide of New Zealand. No not suicide in New Zealand but a proposal to cash in the country's independence and become instead, the seventh state of the Australian commonwealth. An opinion poll has suggested that no less than one in four New Zealanders are in favour of this startling departure, and fully a half of the polled want to begin serious debate about it.
I'm curious as to why this has become news all of a sudden - I sent the story to a Kiwi colleague of mine, and she said this debate has been raging for years. Curious why we outside of NZ have latched on to it now.
 

colpepper1

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Clackmannanshire, Brecknockshire, Flint? For those of us of a certain vintage it's as though we made them up and our parents told us to grow up and stop being so silly. Likewise Zanzibar and Persia. They've gone like Lilliput and Oz. Is Flintshire the only mainland county in two completely separate parts?
 

Peripart

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colpepper1 said:
Is Flintshire the only mainland county in two completely separate parts?
Is it still in two pieces? If you're talking about the historic counties, however, then Worcestershire, too, was split. If you look at this map of the old counties, you'll see that there used to be a little island of Worcs, just to the north of the "mainland". Somehow, Dudley became detached from the rest of the county, although it's now part of West Midlands, of course.
 

Fizz32

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I didn't know Flintshire was in two pieces, and I can't find a map that confirms that it is.

I'm curious to know more. Mainly because I live in Flintshire.
 

rynner2

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The world's micronations unite to demand recognition
They boast flags, national anthems and passports and prosper under the benign rule of a colourful cast of kings, archdukes, emperors and presidents.
By Nick Squires
Published: 7:00AM BST 04 May 2010

But these self-declared "micronations" scattered around the world appear on no map.

Ranging from The Kingdom of North Dumpling Island to the Principality of Snake Hill, these miniature states are recognised by no national government, let alone the United Nations.

Some consist of nothing more than a suburban bungalow or an inner city flat, but others, such as Hutt River Province in Western Australia or the Dominion of British West Florida, encompass swathes of territory bigger than recognised countries such as San Marino or Lichtenstein.

They have come together, for the first time, at a conference in Sydney to discuss the best ways to push for recognition.

They include the Gay and Lesbian Kingdom of the Coral Sea Islands, which was founded in 2004 on a group of uninhabited islets on the Great Barrier Reef as a protest against the Australian government's refusal to recognise same-sex marriages.

Many of the territories were born out of discontent or frustration with the authorities, but then take on a life of their own.

Sociologist Judy Lattas, who helped organise the conference said: "It's always possible to do things differently and to do it yourself, and that's what I think is the pleasure of it and the wonder of it."

A case in point is Hutt River Province, a self-declared independent state founded by farmer Leonard Casley in 1970 after he became embroiled in a dispute with the state government of Western Australia over restrictions on his wheat quota.

Prince Leonard and his wife, Princess Shirley, rule over the 29-square mile plot of farmland, issuing their own passports and wearing elaborate regalia for official occasions.

The principality, which last month celebrated its 40th anniversary, has long been tolerated by Canberra, despite the fact that Prince Leonard once declared war on Australia. Receiving no response, he ordered a cessation of hostilities a few days later. 8)

etc...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ition.html
 
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