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Microchip / RFID Implants: Issues, Concerns & Ramifications

Techybloke -

I'm amused that you think I'm someone who will simply keep my head down, pay my taxes and take it all. Well, I'm not that person at all - but at the same time, I don't get suckered into worrying about things as you seem to do. Why? Well, in terms of the subject of this thread, there doesn't actually seem to be anything going on. At least, the picture is not as you'd like to have it painted. As to why this apparent technology needs a satellite support - well, (a) it sounds good to prospective investors, and (b) what's the big fuss about that anyway? I mean, various other mundane things have satellite support, and I don't see you foaming at the mouth at that.

To back up Heckler's last post - you should look into the history of tech development as far as government bodies are concerned. It's a very sorry state of affairs. Alot of tax revenue has been wasted on various schemes both in the US and UK. Look at the farcical way that the whole CSA computer system was created and handled, as an example. If you think that all it takes is some technology to make this Big Brother scheme you seem to think is on it's way, then past history shows that such a scheme would be doomed to failure. The scope of it's capability would be so vast, and need constant attention in terms of software, etc. that it would make current bureaucracies in the US and UK look tiny in comparison. Of course, this is a cash cow to any companies who want to dip their buckets into the flow of money that may get spent in experimental development - so far, few of these companies have been held accountable for the inadequacies of their products, if they're ever created in the first place. The buck stops at the government that uses it.

You really need to think out of the box with this sort of stuff.
 
Quote

Jerry B said
I agree with what Heckler is said. As long as you pay your taxes and don't break any laws, you're not a feature in the mind's eye of the State (if it has such any eye anyway).

Took it you meant your self Jerry I didn't mention paying Taxes and breaking laws first.

Who's foaming anyway ? I,m just looking at information and pondering why all the links between a known dodgy company ( Carlyle )
And some companies that appear to be going down the good bye privacy mate.

Do you think If ID cards become law they won't become compulsory to carry ????

Ooooo i,ll leave mine at home hey !!!! ;)

Whats that officer I have broken a law oooops :shock:

So trusting we all are !! :D

Funding hmmmm

I think we have to pay for our cards don't we ??? if they get lost we buy another. Who's to say it will be £20 or £100 in the future.

The CSA was doomed from the start cause you cant track people to get money off them if they dont want you too.

Too much like hard work for the administrators too.
ooops bottom of the pile and onto the chap whos easy to find.
 
Heckler said:
Considering how badly civil servants manage most other things, an Orwellian Big Brother society in this country would be quite amusing in it's ineptitude. ;)
Click to expand...

Point taken! :lol:
 
the problem with thids level of technology being used in the UK is that it is more likely to be used to enforce petty stuff, rather than the actual problem it is claimed it is being put in place to solve, also as has been said on another thread, good records on the population may cause problems later, all it would take is a MCarthyesque witch hunt against something and those records will be used.

i am a law abiding citizen but would prefer it if the government would treat me as such, leaving me free to do what i want rather than watching my every move ready to step in as soon as it looks like i am about to break a rule after all we are adults if i wanted that much structure in my life i would have joined the armed services or emigrated to Singapore.
 
My sentiments exactly.

I don't break laws and I will abide by the rules, we don't need monitoring by an over enthusiastic goverment.

Just as a comment on new technology the goverment is implementing


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/ ... 98,00.html
Super cameras to track drivers

Motorists angry over 'big brother' devices that will record speed for miles

They have the technology and will implement anything they see fit.

I was speaking to a chap a few weeks ago who was telling me a pretty scary story about wireless technology going into replaced lamp posts on motorways.

The gist of it is - he said
These devices we are putting in with the wiring can monitor cars that have an RFID in the construction of the car.

I said to him
nah it would be common knowledge the goverment would have anounced it.

He winked and said its future proofing mate they put them there now and put them in the cars.
Eventually the infrastructure will be available to track all new vehicles everywhere on the main roads.

I said it didnt seem legal to which he replied - I just do what i,m told

He works for a company that is subcontracted to replace lamposts on motorways
 
oooooooooooo no replies


I suppose your all glued to the royal wedding !!! :shock:

;)
 
Well, after all, we only have your word for it that this conversation actually took place... And anyway, this is still a long way off from chip implantation.
 
JerryB said:
Well, after all, we only have your word for it that this conversation actually took place... And anyway, this is still a long way off from chip implantation.
Click to expand...

I think both Techybloke and I were trying to illustrate with various examples that, whilst as an isolated suggestion, implanted chips might seem implausible and 'from out of nowhere', with the steady creep into a surveillance culture (which is undeniable: it's getting to the point where nearly everything we do is tracked in one form or another) it isn't necessarily as unlikely as it first appears.

I think all that is really missing from the 'implanted chip' scenario is the necessary spin to make such a proposition more appealing.

Then again, not all surveillance/security measures have to be popular to be thrust upon us: look at 'speed cameras' for example. Whilst people generally do want safer roads, look at how the use of these cameras are questionned: revenue creators, many camera'd roads have more accidents, the ironic Government opposition on people using surveillance on them with camera detectors, accuracy of the cameras... They aren't popular, they are all over the place and the public has no say in them.
 
Chip implantation is a completely different kettle of fish compared to speed cameras, etc..
 
JerryB said:
Chip implantation is a completely different kettle of fish compared to speed cameras, etc..
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, thin end of the wedge and all that.
 
All still a very long way off from any civil control plans tho', isn't it? Hardly the stuff of Big Brother.
 
JerryB said:
All still a very long way off from any civil control plans tho', isn't it? Hardly the stuff of Big Brother.
Click to expand...
because any government will unveil the whole thing in one go won't they, ministry of truth, secret police and other parts of the apperatus of control ;) elect "A" and loose your civil rights great manifesto point
 
I don,t think it is Jerry

Chips that go in arms
Chips in id cards
Chips in passports
Chips in Car number plates
Fish and Chips :D well maybe that one is ok !!!


And they are all Trackable RFID's

I have also read of hidden RFID chips in clothes I'm still looking into that one.

Big Brother is a fact and well on the way.

And lets not forget the most important thing about all this
Carlyle own the two companies who make 80% of all these chips globally.
 
Applied Digital Presents at U.S. Department of Commerce Workshop on Radio Frequency Identification -RFID-; Chairman and CEO Scott R. Silverman Tapped to Present Industry Perspective on RFID Hardware

WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 7, 2005--Applied Digital (Nasdaq: ADSX), a provider of security through innovation (TM), announced today that its Chairman and CEO, Scott R. Silverman participated in yesterday's "RFID in 2005: Technology and Industry Perspectives" workshop at the invitation of the U.S. Department of Commerce.


As part of the "Industry Perspectives - RFID Hardware" panel, Mr. Silverman gave a presentation on VeriChip, the world's first subdermal RFID microtransponder that can be used in a variety of medical, security, and financial identification purposes and was recently cleared by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) VeriChip for medical applications in the United States.

In his opening remarks, Mr. Silverman re-affirmed Applied Digital's strong support of the Administration's initiative to promote Information Technology (IT) in healthcare, but pointed out that access to that information, such as electronic medical records is crucial. "How do you access the information in that electronic medical record in an emergency situation without human-based data input? Our answer is VeriChip....VeriChip can be used as the gateway or portal to electronic medical records."

Mr. Silverman also highlighted the recent acceptance of the VeriChip technology by two prestigious hospitals - Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center (Boston, MA) and Hackensack University Medical Center (Hackensack, NJ).

In addition to discussion of the capabilities of the VeriChip product, Mr. Silverman devoted the majority of his presentation to the company's devotion to privacy, and the protocols Applied Digital has developed in regards to privacy, including the appointment of a Chief Privacy Officer, and the adoption of a comprehensive privacy policy. "We look at ourselves as leaders in the RFID industry. Therefore, we are strong pro-active privacy participants, we want to be and we have to be," said Silverman. "We urge the industry to address these (privacy) issues head on and we look to be an active participant."
 
Debatable -- Is a law needed to ban microchip implants in humans?
By Tom Sheehan

MADISON - State Rep. Marlin Schneider doesn't want government getting under your skin.

The Wisconsin Rapids Democrat is introducing a bill that would prohibit anyone, including the government and employers, from requiring microchip implants in people.

Sound far-fetched, like something from a sci-fi flick? It might be. But Schneider, who's known as a privacy advocate, isn't waiting until the first case to be reported. Technology once reserved for tracking records on pets and livestock is migrating to the human race in medical, security and identity verification applications.

http://www.journaltimes.com/articles/20 ... 476281.txt
 
CORRECTING and REPLACING Applied Digital's VeriChip Corporation Subsidiary Expands Distribution to Taiwan and Saudi Arabia; SI&I Corporation and Arabian Gulf Group Become Latest International Distributors
CORRECTION...by VeriChip Corporation

DELRAY BEACH, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 22, 2005--Website in the first graph, second sentence should read: www.siikorea.com (sted: www.silkorea.com).


The corrected release reads:

APPLIED DIGITAL'S VERICHIP CORPORATION SUBSIDIARY EXPANDS DISTRIBUTION TO TAIWAN AND SAUDI ARABIA

SI&I Corporation and Arabian Gulf Group Become Latest International Distributors

VeriChip Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Applied Digital (NASDAQ: ADSX), announced today that it has signed two new non-exclusive distributors for Taiwan and Saudi Arabia. SI&I (www.siikorea.com) will distribute the product in Taiwan, while Arabian Gulf Group. has been selected as a distributor in Saudi Arabia.

"The selection of these new distributors expands our distribution in two attractive international markets," said Scott R. Silverman, Applied Digital's Chairman and CEO. "The FDA clearance allows us to pursue a dual distribution strategy. Domestically, we will continue to focus on distributors, hospitals, physicians and other key opinion leaders to enhance sales of VeriChip, while internationally there is a great deal of enthusiasm surrounding security applications. We will continue to pursue both paths as each has significant long-term potential


http://home.businesswire.com/portal/sit ... ewsLang=en
 
Heres his views

Applied Digital pushes microchip to plant in foreigners for tracking

By Deborah Circelli, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

PALM BEACH -- Today's security measures don't work very well, says
Richard Sullivan, pointing to the Sept. 11 terror attacks on New York and
Washington.

He's says he's got a better idea: a microchip instead of a green card.
Foreigners who pass through customs or immigration could be injected with
the chip, allowing officials to monitor their activities better and keep
terrorists out.

"Man today is more than ever converging with technology," said
Sullivan, who is CEO of the Palm Beach-based tech company Applied Digital
Solutions (Nasdaq: ADSX, 45 cents). "I think the positives overwhelmingly
overcome any small negatives. The government is more prepared, for the
overall benefit of our citizens, to advocate some of these changes."

Sullivan's company has high hopes for the implantable technology, which
it unveiled Wednesday. Until now, the microchips -- called VeriChips --
have been used for tracking and identifying animals.
 
ADS has a program called VeriKid.

Under the program children are implanted with a VeriChip — an RFID device,
using a large needle which injects the device under the skin. The chip gives
off a 125-kilohertz radio frequency signal which is transmitted to a nearby
scanner or hand held wand. Scanners read the transmitted ID number and use
it to identify the child through a database.

When a “chipped” child is abducted or missing, authorities place scanners in
areas where the child might turn up — such as shopping malls, bus stations,
airports and other areas. If the child goes by the scanner, the chip
triggers the scanner and alerts authorities to the location.

Both Brazil and Mexico have implemented the program for “security purposes”
and to track abducted and missing children. Mexico's National Foundation of
Investigations of Robbed and Missing Children estimates that 133,000
children in Mexico have been kidnapped over the past five years.

According to VeriChip, Mexico launched their VeriKid program earlier this
month to protect children from abduction. The company claims the chip will
alert whether the child is unconscious, asleep, silenced or even dead.

Brazil has ordered 10 wall-mounted VeriGuard scanning devices to be used as
part of their security system which will be launched in Brazil in
mid-November.

That program, VeriChip claims, will be the first in which implantable chips
will be used as part of a building access security system for adults.

VeriChip claims their original purpose for the program was medically
focused — not for security. The company wanted to be able to identify people
with specific medical needs, even if they were brought into a hospital
unconscious. But VeriChip claims the chip goes far beyond medical uses the
company claims.

Parolees could be chipped to make sure they do not break parole. Sex
offenders could be tracked even if they did not register with the city as
required by law.

It sounds good to some, but opponents to the chips claim that while the RFID
’s provide some measure of security, they do so at the severe expense of
personal privacy.

The chip can be linked to any kind of information — including financial,
medical, criminal history or past convictions, drug use etc. and those with
scanners or access to scanners would have access to that information as
well.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... 17/nchip17.
> xml&sSheet=/news/2005/01/17/ixhome.html
> or click: <http://tinyurl.com/6ufu8>:
>
> ***BEGIN ARTICLE 1***
>
> Microchip to allow wallet-free drinking
>
> By Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent
> (Filed: 17/01/2005)
>
> A Scottish nightclub is about to become the first in Britain to offer
> its customers the chance to have a microchip implanted in their arm to
> save them carrying cash.
>
> The "digital wallet", the size of a grain of rice, guarantees entry to
> the club and allows customers to buy drinks on account. Brad Stevens,
> owner of Bar Soba in Glasgow, said his customers had responded
> enthusiastically to the idea.
>
> The VeriChip is inserted by a medical professional and then scanned for
> its unique ID number as a customer enters the bar.
>
> "There are a number of advantages, from instant access, to not having to
> carry money or credit cards, to letting bar staff know a customer's name
> and favourite drink," said Mr Stevens. "By the time you walk through the
> door to the bar, your favourite drink is waiting for you and the bar
> staff can greet you by name."
>
> However, he said the bar would also have to make sure that customers
> with the chip had a limit on how much they could spend to prevent them
> drinking beyond their ability to pay.
>
> The scheme was criticised by a spokesman for the Scottish Executive, who
> said the microchip could encourage excessive drinking, and by Notags, a
> consumer group set up to resist the spread of radio frequency
> identification devices.
>
> A spokesman said: "The chip contains your name and ID number and, as
> this could be read remotely without your knowledge, that is already too
> much information."
>
> ***END ARTICLE 1***
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... xhome.html

Microchip to allow wallet-free drinking
By Auslan Cramb, Scottish Correspondent
(Filed: 17/01/2005)

A Scottish nightclub is about to become the first in Britain to offer
its customers the chance to have a microchip implanted in their arm to
save them carrying cash.

The "digital wallet", the size of a grain of rice, guarantees entry to
the club and allows customers to buy drinks on account. Brad Stevens,
owner of Bar Soba in Glasgow, said his customers had responded
enthusiastically to the idea.

The VeriChip is inserted by a medical professional and then scanned for
its unique ID number as a customer enters the bar.

"There are a number of advantages, from instant access, to not having
to carry money or credit cards, to letting bar staff know a customer's
name and favourite drink," said Mr Stevens. "By the time you walk
through the door to the bar, your favourite drink is waiting for you
and the bar staff can greet you by name."

However, he said the bar would also have to make sure that customers
with the chip had a limit on how much they could spend to prevent them
drinking beyond their ability to pay.

The scheme was criticised by a spokesman for the Scottish Executive,
who said the microchip could encourage excessive drinking, and by
Notags, a consumer group set up to resist the spread of radio frequency
identification devices.

A spokesman said: "The chip contains your name and ID number and, as
this could be read remotely without your knowledge, that is already too
much information."
 
Techybloke said:
I have also read of hidden RFID chips in clothes I'm still looking into that one.

Big Brother is a fact and well on the way.
Click to expand...

This was something that turned a few mental cogs when I first heard about this. If chips can be placed into something as ubiquitous and innocuous as clothes, things that are can be easily manipulated to make fashionable too, then I think the step towards implants gets even smaller. Particularly as people generally accept once taboo and fringe body modifications such as piercing and tattoos. Speaking of which, part of the RFID chip 'circuitry' can take the form of ink...

And lets not forget the most important thing about all this
Carlyle own the two companies who make 80% of all these chips globally.
Click to expand...

:shock: Like I can forget.
 
Yes but the point is, so at some unspecified point in the future they can track us (whoever they are) The question you haven't answered is why?

As I pointed out ad nauseum earlier in this thread the government don't care about you, they don't care where you go, what is the point of a Big Brother infrastructure with no motive?

I can say at a guess that 90% of the people are of no interest whatsoever to any government (apart from the couple of weeks in the run up to an election of course ;) ) so why would they bother tracking you, even if they could?
 
Womaniac said:
This was something that turned a few mental cogs when I first heard about this. If chips can be placed into something as ubiquitous and innocuous as clothes, things that are can be easily manipulated to make fashionable too, then I think the step towards implants gets even smaller. Particularly as people generally accept once taboo and fringe body modifications such as piercing and tattoos. Speaking of which, part of the RFID chip 'circuitry' can take the form of ink...
Click to expand...

No, because everything mentioned so far has relied on people choosing to have such chips - which is alot different. Unless, of course, you assume that it's part of some plan to get us all to accept implantation. If chips are placed within products (so far it's been suggested for some clothes and razors), it's hardly some sort of Orwellian tracking device. You could always just not by those particular products.

And, aside from that, none of those buying into this 'conspiracy' have answered Heckler's questions as to why implantation would be needed. Do people really theink they're all that important that they need to be monitored in such a way by the State?
 
Their reason is security Jerry.

What their long term objectives are who can guess !!!

Bottom line is we are saying yes to the infrastucture and later they can turn it to what ever they want too.

Like you say

Don't break any laws pay your taxes and keep your head down or else.

Police will be able to order eye scans under ID card plan

London Independent | April 26 2004

Police will have powers to stop and check people against a national biometric database under plans for a compulsory identity card scheme to be unveiled today.

David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, confirmed that police would be able to compare people against national fingerprint or iris records even if they did not carry the controversial document.

The draft Bill will outline plans to introduce biometric data on passports in three years' time, with a compulsory scheme introduced by 2013.

Civil liberties campaigners expressed alarm at the proposals, but a defiant Mr Blunkett insisted that legislation would be put before Parliament by the autumn after consultation on technical issues are resolved. A pilot test of the equipment needed for the cards will be launched this week.

Mr Blunkett said: "This isn't some kind of fetish. This is about recognising the massive change that's taken place in the world around us."

Under the draft Bill, people renewing their passports from 2007 will have to be scanned for biometric data such as their irises and fingerprints. Driving licences could also include the data.

By 2013, when the scheme is expected to become compulsory, 80 per cent of people of working age are expected to be included. The cost of the scheme, estimated at £3.1bn, will be met by increasing the price of passports to around £73.

The Home Office confirmed that police would be able to ask people to undergo a scan to be compared with the national list of identities.

Mr Blunkett said: "Even if the person didn't carry the card, [the police] would be able to check their biometric automatically with the equipment. "It's more than simply having a card. This is about true identity, being known, being checkable, being used in order to ensure we know who is in the country, what they're entitled to and whether they're up to no good." Under the draft legislation, the scheme can become compulsory without fresh legislation. But Mr Blunkett promised a full debate in both Houses of Parliament before such a move was confirmed.

Tony Blair will attempt to counter fears about ID cards tomorrow in a speech to promote planned immigration. The Prime Minister will argue that planned immigration from Europe and beyond is good for the British economy at a time of economic growth. But civil liberties campaigners expressed alarm at the prospect of compulsory ID tests.

Shami Chakrabarti, a director of the pressure group Liberty, told GMTV: "He is too quick to offer various draconian measures as a magic bullet to whatever our fears are this week: terrorism, illegal immigration and so on. It does not actually solve these deep-seated problems we face."

David Winnick, the Labour MP for Walsall North and a member of the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee, said: "David Blunkett says that the British card will be more sophisticated than the existing Spanish card, but where is the evidence that any type of ID card would have stopped the massacre in Madrid?

"This is a costly exercise which will not do what is claimed by the Home Secretary and other enthusiasts."

David Davis, the shadow Home Secretary, said ID cards should be introduced without delay if civil liberties and technical objections could be overcome.
 
Techybloke said:
Their reason is security Jerry.

What their long term objectives are who can guess !!!
Click to expand...

Huh? Security? No sorry I'm not buying it. What is their motivation?

Now if you were to suggest (for example) that if you were on a list of malcontents (criteria, elastic of course ;) ) this would enable the government to know where you are as a form of control then I'd nod and take it a bit seriously, but so far you're long on technology and pretty short on reasons.

Why do you think the government wants this technology?
 
ah Heckler


But I wish not to be found in a burned out car mate :shock:

But from a hypothetical point of view I would say Money was a possible driver.

If all these things get implemented we would be lucky to get thro a week without infringing on some small law .
On the spot fines straight from your bank are a runner for speeding etc.

Bit of a LIFE TAX really.

Having said that it could be the start of a world goverment using technology to control its subjects.
 
Hmm - why quote some possible old ID stuff, especially from a minister who's no longer in charge of any possible policies.

Again, I'd say that you're focusing too much on current events and the general way that certain areas get overstressed. I think it's unlikely that alot of measures that have been vaunted by various people will ever get put into practice. Much is made of 'security' issues, but they only tend to be of any import if there's some current story to go with it. Often as not, there isn't anything with any depth and the media and politicians will pick up on it only as it's a 'flavour of the month' type of thing. The further away we get from the anniversary of 9/11, the less of an issue security becomes. Sooner or later some other load of buzzwords and issues will arise and all these rather daft schemes will probably fall by the wayside.

Implying that control measures will be emplaced to provide some sort of civil control is ill-concieved idea. Note has already been made as to how such a thing would be pretty much impossible to maintain. IMHO it still tends to revolve around a rather vain paranoid view about how important you actually are to the State (clue - not much). And as for some mythological one-world government - that's a ludicrous idea, dreamt up by people who have absolutely no grasp of both history and political history :roll:
 
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