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Drugs: Creative Aid Or Hindrance?

I Have To Admit...

It was a bit of a relief moving to the Netherlands, because a lot of the social pressure, I felt, to smoke dope eased off.

It being illegal, most other places, I really felt the need to join in with friends, on principle. Even though I'm one of those poor devils on whom dope acts more like speed, paranoia and thinking on overdrive, etc. Not always a good thing.

So now, I only smoke on those very rare occasions when the boredom quotient reaches danger levels.
 
Very odd principles.

Drugs are nothing but a waste of money. Cannabis is the drug of choice for sad, wannabe rebels who can't think of anything meaningful to do. It's the adult equivalent of smoking behind the bike sheds. All recreational drugs, alcohol included for most people, are just a way to replace things like excitement and achievment. Save your money and get out more, or at least to different places.
 
Inverurie Jones said:
All recreational drugs, alcohol included for most people, are just a way to replace things like excitement and achievment.
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Perhaps, you think that some people do benefit from the application of alcohol?

You come across like an advocate for the Duke of Edinburgh Awards. :p
 
I know people who drink to be less creative.
They don't want to think too much all the time. They want some 'down' time, some induced 'rest'! No, they ain't speed freaks.

Only drugs I use now are beer and caffeine. Prefer beer!

I've never felt like drugs were much of a way forward. The things I want to experience, I want to do it without too much artificial stimulation, want to do it naturally...
 
David Raven said:
The things I want to experience, I want to do it without too much artificial stimulation, want to do it naturally...
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Ital Dave! :)
 
AndroMan said:
Perhaps, you think that some people do benefit from the application of alcohol?
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No, but some people, myself included, do not drink alcohol for its effects.
 
I used to drink for the purpose of getting drunk. It's only as I've got older that I've enjoyed a beer for no other reason than for it's taste.

I took drugs and got trashed for fun. Pure and simple. I liked the feeling they created and I liked the effect they had on me.

In retrospect I may as well played Russian Roulette when I was younger. Now I don't touch anything, although I still do like a beer or two and I do like getting squiffy.

I'm much healthier for it too and I like doing and experiencing things with a clear head.
 
McAvennie said:
If you need to take drugs to enjoy yourself or be creative then that's pretty sad. If you haven't got the imagination or inner motivation to create something or find ways to happily pass the time without the aid of outside substances then that's a shame.
I have no time for drugs and the 'Whoa, we're so cool cos we do drugs' attitude.
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obviously from the point of view of someone who has no experience in the use of drugs.
 
David Raven said:
I know people who drink to be less creative.
They don't want to think too much all the time. They want some 'down' time, some induced 'rest'! No, they ain't speed freaks.
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i know one person who has a little dope to stop thinking so he can sleep...otherwise he realy cant sleep and ends up a wreck...hes got a master of sciences too...
 
sidecar_jon said:
i know one person who has a little dope to stop thinking so he can sleep...otherwise he realy cant sleep and ends up a wreck...hes got a master of sciences too...
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hey that sounds like me! ;)

I stopped smoking pot for a month, and I had very bad sleep full of extremly vivid dreams.
 
sidecar_jon said:
a agree with MA there...
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what I mean, is that the use of "external stimulii" being what we call "drugs" or other substances (sugar, salt, etc) has always been a part of humanity.

using chemicals to alter your perspective, in my opinion, can be very productive, and you can end up discovering things that just are not possible any other way.

to claim that if people "use drugs" implies that that person is not "creative" unless under the influence of drugs is pretty naive.

I also realise that drugs, when missused, can cause a lot of mental and physical problems in a person, and as such drugs shouldn't be abbused - but I also realise that it is foolish to dismiss something totally, with out regarding the positive aspects.

sorry MA if my comment was a little flippant earlier.
 
well maybe ..ive seen people turned into cabages by drugs both prescription and not... i feel that drugs make people manageable in general terms..where would the movement of the 60's have gon if i hadnt got side tracked into self indulgent chemical usage..what would the black comunity of America do if large numbers wernt trapped in a poverty by Crak cocain and nike shoes....
 
decadnids said:
obviously from the point of view of someone who has no experience in the use of drugs.
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That's something to be proud of, displaying the strength of will to avoid getting involved in the pathetic drugs 'scene'? The whole thing offers nothing nd only detracts from your quality of life. It's the last refuge of the dullard and the ne'er-do-well who try to dull the pain of their own hopelessness by deluding themselves into thinking that they are indulging in something special, rather than reducing themselves to useless wreckage.
 
sidecar_jon said:
well maybe ..ive seen people turned into cabages by drugs both prescription and not... i feel that drugs make people manageable in general terms..where would the movement of the 60's have gon if i hadnt got side tracked into self indulgent chemical usage..what would the black comunity of America do if large numbers wernt trapped in a poverty by Crak cocain and nike shoes....
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yup true enough,

I have known a lot of people who have messed up totally due to drug abuse (prescription drugs, black market drugs, and also legal drugs - alcohol etc).
 
Inverurie Jones said:
That's something to be proud of, displaying the strength of will to avoid getting involved in the pathetic drugs 'scene'? The whole thing offers nothing nd only detracts from your quality of life. It's the last refuge of the dullard and the ne'er-do-well who try to dull the pain of their own hopelessness by deluding themselves into thinking that they are indulging in something special, rather than reducing themselves to useless wreckage.
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so does thay apply to the aboriginal tribes who use chemicals from plants (drugs) to gain visions and knowledge?
 
Some of the people I used to rave with are still into the clubbing scene and TBH are a bit dozey most of the time.

Their conversations tend to lose their point half way through and after a few beers they are incredibly hard work to keep on topic.

I've not known anyone who took drugs used them to be creative though. Just to get off of their tits! We were never that intellectual! :D

I can remember going to see the Orb one night at Brixton Acedemy. I went completely stone cold sober, I didn't even drink coke that night. One of the chaps we were with, kept going on about the massive atmosphere and huge pressure that was building and how everyone was just "connected". To me, the atmosphere was mediocre and people seemed a bit grouchy. The Orb were not at their best and most of the gig was quite forgettable. Even though our opinions differed he refused to see it was the huge amount of ecstasy which he'd taken earlier which made him feel like that!!

Maybe because I was sober the subliminal unercurrents he could feel passed me by. Maybe I wasn't tuned into them the way he was. I am being serious here. Maybe it was like watching a 3-movie without the glasses, you can see whats going on you just don't get the full effect.

(I did see Annie Nightengale bopping about though which did sort of make my night!)
 
Tyger Lily said:
I can remember going to see the Orb one night at Brixton Acedemy. I went completely stone cold sober, I didn't even drink coke that night. One of the chaps we were with, kept going on about the massive atmosphere and huge pressure that was building and how everyone was just "connected". To me, the atmosphere was mediocre and people seemed a bit grouchy.
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classic.

I don't dispute that drugs are abused.
as they are by millions of people every day, and that is not good.
 
Let's be glad that we don't all get an afternoon dose of Soma to keep us happy. (I could go for the casual sex bit though!!)

Afterall, a gram is better than a damn!
 
See I think drugs have done some good things for us. If you don't think drugs have done good things for us then do me a favor. Go home tonight and take all of your records, tapes and all your CD's and burn them. Because, you know all those musicians who made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years? - Bill Hicks
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And I tend to agree BUT its a matter of personal choice, education, purpose and moderation.

There is too much ignorance and scare-mongering surrounding drugs, their effects and the people that take them. I have used drugs for nearly twenty years from alcohol, nicotine and cannabis through the psychadelics to opiates. I am a creative director and partner in a successful marketing agency. I have won awards for ideas formed whilst under the influence and I have won awards for ideas I’ve had whilst not under the influence. But one thing I’m sure of is that the experiences I’ve had whilst using drugs have positively effected and shaped me.

I’m not saying that “Drugs are Good”, they are not, neither is it fair to say ‘Drugs are bad”, as I said before it’s a matter of purpose and moderation. In my experience some drugs take you through a physical experience others take you through a mental experience, some are more intense than others and the more you understand about the drug the better and safer the experience.

As Timothy Leary nearly said
“Drugs are not for every brain . . . Only the healthy, happy, wholesome, handsome, hopeful, humorous, high-velocity should seek these experiences. This elitism is totally self-determined. Unless you are self-confident, self-directed, self-selected, please abstain.”
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There is a tendency among users to think that because certain creative individuals used drugs, that drugs make on creative. This is not so. If you are an ignorant, talentless git, as the majority of humans, let alone drug users, are, then on taking drugs you will become an ignorant, talentless gitwith a dependency on a substance that briefl cons you into thinking that you are something else. If you wish to be something else, then get out there and make it so, rather than trapped, rotting in a stinking house and a twisted mind.
The lists drug users produce contain a very small number of people scattered over many years. Very few people can use these substances and take anything from it. There are no rivals to Byron on this board, I'll tell you that.
 
True IJ

But that can be said about most things. If are drugs are like rugby I will never be Jonny Wilkinson, but I still enjoy myself playing on a sunday. I feel no less pleasure because i'm not Jonny and whilst I may aspire to be in his position it is certainly not an ingredient in the reasons why I do it.
 
yep i agree with Ij here... tho ive seen prescription drugs improve people. I think creativity happens dispite the influence. And after reading some tim Leary, i think he realy was a twit, who was wittingly or unwittingly working for the other side. As to Bill Hicks, ok so some musicians take/took naughty drugs, often to keep on thier feet or to stave off boredom. Im trying to think of any musical product that requires the use of drugs to apreciate. As for inspired by drugs..... I saw hawkwind once so out of it they had roadies picking up ther instraments when they dropped them and playing very badly all their old songs cos they didnt write anything anyone wanted to hear anymore.
 
Inverurie Jones said:
This is not so. If you are an ignorant, talentless git, as the majority of humans, let alone drug users, are, then on taking drugs you will become an ignorant, talentless gitwith a dependency on a substance that briefl cons you into thinking that you are something else.
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yeah fair enough.

as this thread is about creativity and drug use, I guess I would have to agree (to some degree).

but not all people who partake in "drugs" are dependant on them.

just like not all people who "drink alcohol" is an alcoholic.
 
sidecar_jon said:
Im trying to think of any musical product that requires the use of drugs to apreciate.
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http://www.brainwashed.com/coil/music/timemachines.html

coil released a double CD with tracks that where intended to be listened to on various chemicals.

7-Methoxy-ß-Carboline: (Telepathine)
2,5-Dimethoxy-4-Ethyl-Amphetamine: (DOET/Hecate)
5-Methoxy-N, N-Dimethyl: (5-Me0-DMT)
4-Indolol, 3-[2-(Dimethylamino)Ethyl]' Phosphate Ester: (psilocybin)
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According to John Balance, the premise behind this release is that hallucinogens act as time machines - they can conjure up histories of yourself and/or act as predictors of the future. In any case, they can remove you from "temporal reality". These tracks on this disc are not only formulas for hallucinogens, but the tracks have been tested, retested, rejected, et cetera.
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I had an ex who wrote poetry which was fairly crap. He then took acid and wrote some more afterwards and it was crappier still! :D

Good point Decanids, not every drug user is a junkie. Lots of people who dabble walk away from it.

I think your personality has a lot to do with dependancy too. You don't take heroin once and presto you're a junkie, you have to do it everyday for quite a few weeks.

I think if you take drugs scientifically to expand your mind or document the facts then there maybe a link to opening up channels of creativity. But lets face it, who really has done it solely for that purpose? I can only think of one and that was that chap on Panorama in the 60s.

When Byron smoked opium he wasn't doing it to enhance his writing. He was doing it for one reason only, to get stoned.
 
I dont agree with drugs (except in small doses on special occiasions maybe) because all the Drug enthusiasts (I wont call them addicts bacause they did not behavie like they were addicted.) Were boring selfish gits. It did not make them creative, quite the opposite. A pity really cos when sober they could be a bit fun, but most of the time they were stoned or worse,

They said that RL was boring...

They would score anything. give them a pill and tell them its fun and they would have taken it.

They claimed it was easy to come off, but they were having fun/couldnt be bothered. (another reason I believed they were not conventinaly addicted. I have seen some people come off main hard stuff (alcohol is about the worst) because they had had enough. They did not want any more. These people didnt come to that stage.)

They were anti authority (of course...would they do all that if it was legal?)

people like this should get hold of their lives, I am not sympathetic with them, I think the authorities should do more to deter this sort of thing. (and alcohol abuse, which IMHO is far worse than heroin.) I guess the authorites want people to be stoned?

a good book is Kary Mullises `Dancing naked in the mind field`
 
Any new and thrilling experience may spur creativity, I think. These peak experiences open up the world as perceived by the mind, which might then cause a person to be more creative in trying to integrate his new perspectives into overall awareness. If it does work that way, than the relationship between creativity and drug use is VERY subjective.

Also, there's a relevant book review right on this site: http://www.forteantimes.com/review/animalpsych.shtml
Basically, animals do drugs too and there may be an evolutionary aspect to it. Anybody ever read the book?
 
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