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Hairiness / Hairlessness & Its Role In Sexual Attractiveness / Fashion Trends

Mighty_Emperor

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Caught by the fuzz

Why are people still freaked out by hairy women, asks Caroline Sullivan

Friday February 11, 2005
The Guardian

What a lush little nest of underarm hair Drew Barrymore showed off at a New York fashion show this week. Flirtatiously peeping out of a sleeveless dress, it aroused much comment backstage, where her failure to maintain a properly hairless state was "all they talked about".

All they talked about? What could they possibly have said, beyond: "God, she's hairy"? By real-world standards, her small tuft of fuzz was actually well managed, rather than an ape-like thatch. The commotion about it was so disproportionate you would think it was 1972, when Linda McCartney caused universal horror by venturing out with unshaven legs.

More than 30 years later, deliberate hairiness is still not most women's choice, and certainly not that of most celebrities - which is why that picture of Julia Roberts flashing her furry pits in 1999 still does the rounds - but if Barrymore wants to bare the hair, shouldn't she be allowed to without comment?

Yet while many would spring to her defence regarding underarms, how many would encourage her to be loud and proud about a much more delicate issue: her moustache? She almost certainly has one; most women do, whether it is a dusting of peach-fuzz or out-and-out Groucho Marxian bristles. But she will never advertise it, and, among women, it is rarely talked about, being deemed too sensitive a subject.

The female moustache is the ultimate body taboo. Just because the odd arty type, such as Frida Kahlo or Patti Smith, is happy to display fur above her lip doesn't mean most women aren't faintly repelled by their own. Speaking for many, Bridget Jones waxed disgusted about it in her diary: "I fear that if left to revert to my natural state, I'd have a handlebar moustache."

Even the redoubtable journalist Rosie Boycott, who will present a 60 Minutes documentary on feminism and ageing this month, finds the subject off-putting. "Anyone who has a [visible] moustache is seen as low-rent and slovenly and slightly obscene. There's no culture of facial hair, not even as a tribal thing."

Yet, when compared with the relative acceptability of other hairy bits (think of German women and their legs), it seems perverse that so small an area causes such self-consciousness. But nearly a million jars of Jolen Crème Bleach, the UK's best-selling bleaching product, were sold last year, and every beauty salon offers various removal techniques.

You might assume that there are centuries of tradition behind this attitude, but, according to Dr Philippa Berry, a former lecturer in early modern cultural history at King's College London, this isn't the case. "I'm not aware of any cultural references to excessive hair on women in 16th- and 17th-century England," she says. "The late 16th century was a time of enormous sexual licence, so from the lack of references to it you could perhaps infer that hairiness wasn't an issue."

Things had certainly changed by the 19th century, when female facial hair was considered so freakish that the only place for women with abnormal hirsuteness was the circus. In the US, bearded ladies were still part of travelling freakshows until at least the 1970s. But come the miniskirt era, the only place hair appeared was on the head.

The 21st century, though, has seen a relaxing of once inflexible hair etiquette - unless you're a celeb, nobody cares any longer whether you're hairless or a veritable Godzilla.

Except when it comes to moustaches. They still provoke the most visceral reactions. Meg, a music manager, admits to feeling combative towards her upper lip, and plucks it daily, "as soon as the hair appears on the surface". The radio presenter Harriet Scott, who is 'tache-free, shudders: "It isn't acceptable. People don't talk about it." Jane Moore, an author and broadcaster, is even more forthright. "On TV, overhead lighting makes any smidge of facial hair give you a Hitleresque shadow over your top lip. It's considered so freakish."

Think she's exaggerating? Then don't read these comments from a couple of male friends of mine, who gag at the M-word: "Moustaches on women are horrible. You'd no sooner kiss a woman with one than someone with a running cold sore," says one, while another is reminded of "eastern European shotputters". One did allow, after much musing, that "it might actually be cute if it was groomed and waxed".

Isn't it a bit rich, though, for men to be revolted by facial hair, when the current "sexiest" female body type (slim-hipped, tiny-bottomed) is that of a young boy? You'd have thought a hint of facial bum-fluff would only add to the attraction. But it just does not work that way, and maybe the explanation can be found in the famous Vanity Fair cover depicting lesbian singer kd lang being "shaved" by Cindy Crawford. That picture said it all: moustache equals butch; smooth face equals feminine.

Consider, also, the lesbian photographer Della Grace's decision to grow a beard (which she was able to do, she claimed, because of her unusually high testosterone levels) during a study of reactions to "transgenderism" a decade ago. Some of the most negative responses were from women, one of whom wrote in the Guardian in 1995: "My inner voices chanted, 'You can't catch beardness, you can't, you can't.'"

Terri Apter, a Cambridge University psychologist specialising in gender studies, believes the stigma of furriness diminishes as women age. "If you get a young woman who can easily be made to worry about her appearance, she'll worry about facial hair, whereas a 60-year-old would say, 'This is the result of less oestrogen, and I'll just deal with it.'" It can even be attractive, she suggests. "If it's provocative to wear it, it could be sexy. Blurred boundaries between what's masculine and what's feminine are what we all play with every day."

An interesting idea, but it will be a long time before even the suavest Clark Gable 'tache can be added to a woman's beautification arsenal. The writer Susie Orbach points to the current culture of "hyper-femininity", which proscribes anything even faintly masculine. "What moustaches evoke in an individual who sees one is that you can't categorise the [wearer] properly. Femininity does not look like that. Moustaches desexualise a woman - you have to have the appearance of hyper-femininity, which is [perceived to be] hairless, almost the appearance of a young girl. That's very disturbing in an era of paedophilia."

Depilation isn't considered imperative only by image-obsessed westerners. Middle Eastern women are also fanatical about whisking away hair, while Asians are industrious bleachers. The comedian Shazia Mirza says she has never visited an Asian woman's bathroom without seeing "a big pot of Jolen". She says: "So many times I've stood in a lift and seen Asian women who've bleached their facial hair blonde and looked like Father Christmas."

The decision by Mirza, a former secondary school teacher, to have her own moustache zapped by laser was partly spurred by the boys in her class calling her Mr Mirza. "The kids would ask me: 'Miss, are you a man? Why don't you get rid of your moustache?'" When she began to do stand-up, she used it in her act. "I'd say: 'Someone said I look like a terrorist. Don't be stupid - terrorists have bigger moustaches!'"

It would take a modern-day Kahlo to pull off a moustache with style. Her lover, Diego Rivera, may have thought she was sex on (bristly) legs, but how many of us today are willing to go beardy in the hope that some modern-day Diego will fancy our fur? Until somebody like Barrymore sprouts one (go on, Drew, grow it out), it will continue to be hand-to-lip combat.

Source

Lots of interesting stuff there:

  • Is armpit hair really considered so bad? Possibly masive tangles or dreadlocks but......
  • I must have missed the memo on the current "sexiest" female body type - if I'd wanted to have sex with young boys I'd have joined the Church!!!!
  • I do think this trend to hairlessness is an odd one (I would as I sometimes frighten myself if I catch a glimpse of myself in a bathroom mirror before getting itno the shower - its like I'm about to be attacked by a bear). is the Brazilians and "back, sack and crack" waxes just a porn-inspired trend?
 
The idea that men who like thin women do so because they look like young boys is daft. :roll:

But there's also a trend lately for hairlessness in men, which started some time in the 90's. There was an article In the Sun (I was reading it while waiting for a meal in a local take-away - I don't let things like that in my house ;)) about a football club where all the member had got their chests waxed. It's becoming very popular for guys to be completely hairless - something far more un-natural than hair on women, I'd think - men having beards, chest hair etc. Seems a little infantilistic to me.
 
The suggestion that the popular desire for very thin women is based on a latent attraction for young boys is one that I've heard before, along with the idea that it is an emulation of very young girls.

I think that it comes about because the body shape of popular icons, models, actresses etc is an unnatural one for the most part and one that most women cannot live up to. Hence the demonisation of those that find the shape attractive.

The ideal of being hairless is one that again is supported by popular media and also peer pressure. Some women can be ever so bitchy, and hairiness is a sore subject. To suggest that someone is too hairy can be seen as a slight on their feminity. Usually a comparison is made to an animal- legs like a gorilla etc.

I don't have too much of a problem with excess hairiness- most of my body hair is blonde (Is this too much information?) and yet I've had female "friends" comment on my eyebrows not being up to standard. I have loads of male mates and not one of them has ever commented on the subject in relation to their girlfriends before. Although I have heard them comment on big moustaches and old women that have really hairy legs and wear thin tights over them. Some of them don't like that when they're hungover. :D

Male hairiness has come to the fore recently- I blame Athena and their posters of smooth, oiled young men. I know that some women can't bear hair on a man, but I can't really comment on that because I don't get it really. Men are supposed to be hairy! But if it sells more products I guess that it's going to be supported by the media- films etc.

Not sure where I'm going with this really. I think that hairiness is a socially conditioned issue, and one that is enforced by women themselves. It's not one that I've thought about much, but it is very wierd.
 
Mulled Cider said:
The suggestion that the popular desire for very thin women is based on a latent attraction for young boys is one that I've heard before, along with the idea that it is an emulation of very young girls.

I think I agree with the notion that in times where food isn't plentiful, larger women are more attractive and in times where food is abundant, thinner women are seen as more attractive. It seems to be supported by evidence such as the way women are depicted in art etc.

I think the whole 'looking like young boys/girls' explanation strains credibility because medium to thin women don't look like kids, they look like women (to me, anyway).
 
I don't think that they're really referring to your regular, on the high street, medium to thin women, more your scarily emaciated model and/or actress, some of whom don't have much in the way of hips or boobs or curves and therefore are likened to young boys or very young girls. Or so I believe.

On the other hand, Angelina Jolie is pretty thin and yet I think that she is incredibly feminine and attractive.

Horses for courses innit?

That said, women with lots of curves are obviously the way forward. ;)
 
I had always just thought it was a kind of highlighting of female attributes. Male =hairy Female=not-so-hairy. This kind of carry on though about women who haven't shaved their armpits or whatever just annoys me though. I mean big deal. Is it going to come as a surprise to any men that women had underarm hair? I highly doubt it.
 
GiantRobot said:
I think the whole 'looking like young boys/girls' explanation strains credibility because medium to thin women don't look like kids, they look like women (to me, anyway).

Ian Fleming (author of James Bond) frequently uses the description of a lady's derriere as 'boyish' which has lead to some people questioning his sexuality.

I'm afraid I don't see the connection between thiness in women and young girlishness or boyishness in appearence, it's all in the eye of the beholder I suppose, it's just a different shaped woman. Are people looking for hidden sexual motives in everything now, it's almost as if they are suggesting that having a preference for thinner woman is tantamount to being a paedophile?
 
Hmm - well, I'm one of those people who does see the current trend for waifish women as one which looks boyish. Or, if not that, it's a somewhat asexual or a mix of aspects from the two sexes. And there are occasions in certain adverts where the female models look very young indeed.

As a flipside, try to imagine what would happen if men were commonly presented in such a way in adverts, etc. - I expect more people would find it odd, possibly dodgy.
 
JerryB said:
Hmm - well, I'm one of those people who does see the current trend for waifish women as one which looks boyish. Or, if not that, it's a somewhat asexual or a mix of aspects from the two sexes. And there are occasions in certain adverts where the female models look very young indeed.
But how many of such women are actually used in advertising? And how many are stick-thin-but-with-freaky-breast-implants?

Those aren't boyish. Don't know what they are but they aren't boyish.

All a bit weird if you ask me. Oh you didn't.. ;)
 
Mulled Cider said:
The suggestion that the popular desire for very thin women is based on a latent attraction for young boys is one that I've heard before, along with the idea that it is an emulation of very young girls.

I have wodnered for a while why the current "ideal" seems to either be a young waif look or something more akin to a drag queen (balloon breasts, massive lips, etc.). Who knows: the higher proportion of gay men in fashion? The influence of Dolly Parton? Because we can (breast implants, collagen, etc.)? The fetishisation of youth? The influence of porn? The influence of gay culture (esp. with the old back, sack and crack wax :shock: )?

I suspect the factors are awfully complex (and I like GR's idea that it is boom/bust trends)

Mulled Cider said:
I don't have too much of a problem with excess hairiness- most of my body hair is blonde (Is this too much information?)

Well I've talked about my body hair (at least as much as I can without generating horror) so the floor is open ;)

Mulled Cider said:
and yet I've had female "friends" comment on my eyebrows not being up to standard. I have loads of male mates and not one of them has ever commented on the subject in relation to their girlfriends before.

How odd - I'm unsure if guys even spare a moment's thought for eyebrows most of the time. The only time I've ever heard it mentioned amongst my friends (male and female) is when a woman has shaved them off and drawn them back in (often giving a slightly startled expression).

I do seem to have had too many conversations with my male friends recently about trimming trouser foliage or even shaving the whole lot off (them not me) - they reckon it makes it look bigger although unless you have a fearsome afro downstairs I can't really think that is an issue (I'm sure that is some kind of porn influence sneaking in).
 
Personally I don't think that the problem is the actual shape of the model (I am only talking about models.) but the way that the shape/model is styled and presented. A model snapped by the papparazzi in her jeans, push up bra, sparkly top and red lippy may look like a fully grown woman. However, get a photographer and an ad man in on the act and put her in childish knickers and a vest, clear away the make up, get the lighting right, and the same model is presented as a waif-like pre pubescent.

High fashion loves to play around with provocative looks- if they didn't no-one would talk about them, they wouldn't get a reputation and sell the clothes.

Also I do think that the theory may suggest a certain amount of bad feeling by curvier women- it's soothing to the ego to think that those that don't find your body type attractive are "flawed" in some way. You know, into boys, or young girls. I'm not for one moment suggesting that the majority of women feel like that, but I have heard one or two women be nasty to another because of her body shape. And it only takes one person to make the suggestion in print for others to run with it.
 
Well I too am hairy and proud of it, hirsute men of the world unite.

Actually I would not want to clean out the shower/plughole after the hirsute men of the world have united.....urgh :cross eye
 
Heckler said:
Well I too am hairy and proud of it, hirsute men of the world unite.

Actually I would not want to clean out the shower/plughole after the hirsute men of the world have united.....urgh :cross eye

HairyCon 2006 would certianly require some industrial drain cleaner deployed afterwards ;)

[edit: I couldn't possibly was anything as I'd not know where to finish and like the Forth of Firth bridge once you'd finished you'd have to start again.]
 
Although if you gathered all your escaping hair together you could make a bomb selling hair pieces and merkins at BaldCon 2007.

:cross eye
 
Mulled Cider said:
Although if you gathered all your escaping hair together you could make a bomb selling hair pieces and merkins at BaldCon 2007.

:cross eye

I see some kind of strange symbiotic relaitonship developing there.

I believe its called SlapCon though ;)
 
Mulled Cider said:
Although if you gathered all your escaping hair together you could make a bomb selling hair pieces and merkins at BaldCon 2007.

:cross eye

And perhaps Pit and chest rugs......?
 
Mulled Cider said:
Personally I don't think that the problem is the actual shape of the model (I am only talking about models.) but the way that the shape/model is styled and presented. A model snapped by the papparazzi in her jeans, push up bra, sparkly top and red lippy may look like a fully grown woman. However, get a photographer and an ad man in on the act and put her in childish knickers and a vest, clear away the make up, get the lighting right, and the same model is presented as a waif-like pre pubescent.

Yeah, that can be weird. The whole 'heroin chic' thing. I guess transgression is always something that advertising types love.

Also I do think that the theory may suggest a certain amount of bad feeling by curvier women- it's soothing to the ego to think that those that don't find your body type attractive are "flawed" in some way. You know, into boys, or young girls. I'm not for one moment suggesting that the majority of women feel like that, but I have heard one or two women be nasty to another because of her body shape. And it only takes one person to make the suggestion in print for others to run with it.

Absolutely. Making your 'emeny' out to be a perv is very effective - although only the unhinged (such as those that think the term 'afraid of the dark' is racist) would buy into it, I'd think.
 
Emperor said:
I do seem to have had too many conversations with my male friends recently about trimming trouser foliage or even shaving the whole lot off (them not me) - they reckon it makes it look bigger although unless you have a fearsome afro downstairs I can't really think that is an issue (I'm sure that is some kind of porn influence sneaking in).

please tell me these male friends of yours are gay. i cannot imagine a man with shaved pubes ever succeeding in getting a woman into bed.
 
fluffle said:
Emperor said:
I do seem to have had too many conversations with my male friends recently about trimming trouser foliage or even shaving the whole lot off (them not me) - they reckon it makes it look bigger although unless you have a fearsome afro downstairs I can't really think that is an issue (I'm sure that is some kind of porn influence sneaking in).

please tell me these male friends of yours are gay. i cannot imagine a man with shaved pubes ever succeeding in getting a woman into bed.

Nope as far as I can tell they are all hetero (and have at least one girlfriend on the go) - in fact my gay/bi male friends have never mentioned such things. I suppose it just comes down to out of control vanity* rather than sexuality ;)

* Apologies to any FTMBers who are in the Society of the Shorn Scrotum** - I'm sure you have your reasons.

** I assume there is an implement like a stringless tennis racket which can assist with the most perilous pratice of plucking one's plums.
 
Surely the sexual partner is going to find the 'five o'clock shadow' a bit scratchy.
 
Ouch- That's just wrong.

And when you think of all the accidents that could happen. I mean it hurts when I nick my ankle, but........ :?
 
Min Bannister said:
But how many of such women are actually used in advertising? And how many are stick-thin-but-with-freaky-breast-implants?

Those aren't boyish. Don't know what they are but they aren't boyish.

Quite a few IMHO. There seems to be a mix - partly the thin adolescent look and partly the thin slight asexual look. As I've said, if the same with done with male models selling stuff (i.e. razors) I'm sure people would find it odd. It seems that the same thing doesn't apply when women are used in advertising.
 
GiantRobot said:
I think I agree with the notion that in times where food isn't plentiful, larger women are more attractive and in times where food is abundant, thinner women are seen as more attractive. It seems to be supported by evidence such as the way women are depicted in art etc.

Hmm - perhaps not - for example, the boom years of post-WWII America gave rise to such curvy icons as Marilyn Monroe and Jane Russell...
 
I met a man who shaved his...once

Never again.

<checks hairy body> Yup, not a hair out of place...and they increase your skins sensitivity too
 
Mulled Cider said:
Ouch- That's just wrong.

And when you think of all the accidents that could happen. I mean it hurts when I nick my ankle, but........ :?
I could regale you all with tales of my vasectomy, but I shan't. :oops:
 
A John Wayne stance

AndroMan said:
Mulled Cider said:
Ouch- That's just wrong.

And when you think of all the accidents that could happen. I mean it hurts when I nick my ankle, but........ :?
I could regale you all with tales of my vasectomy, but I shan't. :oops:

My Dad told me about his (we share in our family what can I say!!) and I think I can imagine (not that I want to mind) ;)
 
Timble said:
Surely the sexual partner is going to find the 'five o'clock shadow' a bit scratchy.

Has anyone seen the penis transplant movie Percy? Right after the operation, our hero tries to get a woman into bed and she is horrified to see he's been shaved down there (for the operation) and refuses to shag him. That was the seventies, maybe we've moved on?
 
AndroMan said:
Mulled Cider said:
Ouch- That's just wrong.

And when you think of all the accidents that could happen. I mean it hurts when I nick my ankle, but........ :?
I could regale you all with tales of my vasectomy, but I shan't. :oops:
Ditto :). That involved shaving, and I was nearly as overjoyed to have the fur back as i was to realise that everything still.. you know.. worked.

Hirsute? I'm covered in it - to shave any part of me apart from my face would be like cleaning a patch of carpet.

And I've siad it before and will say it again - women with curves rock!
 
fluffle said:
please tell me these male friends of yours are gay. i cannot imagine a man with shaved pubes ever succeeding in getting a woman into bed.

A fella contacted me on Yahoo IM one night proudly announcing [as his opening gambit] that he removes his public hair :shock:
 
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