Jesus Christ: The Only Son Of God?

[Hospitaller]

"Without faith God is an abstract noun" - I think Joseph Campbell said that. I am not trying to convince any of you to believe in an abstract noun. I am trying to consider ancient texts apart from their significance to Christianity, Islam or the religion that is Atheism. People use such texts for their own agenda and colour them accordingly, whether its the "KJV only" head who is scared s**tless that the bible is not inerrant in translation or the athiest whose faith that there is no God needs underpinnig with regular diatribe against the God of his/her youth - they're both no different to me.
Niles Calder telling me that we have Christianity because our brains weren't as connected up back then is to me no different to the born-again baptist telling me that we don't need to read the bible in its original language because God has given us a translation in English. I tend to leave people to their own religion (I reckon there's as many religions as there are people).

I understand that outside of the likes of "The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail" type books, Dot23, that the editing of the Book of Daniel which you beleive (religiously it seems) to have happened is not widely accepted as a given fact. Anyway, I don't mean to undermine your faith - its a novel idea to me, and I do intend to check it out. Thanks for the lead. My mind is completely open regarding biblical and non-biblical texts and I am willing to accept anything once its proven and not just to support someone's belief in God or belief in Atheism.
As for all the other alleged facts stated above, I do intend to digest them, given the time!

 

[dot23]

yeah, it did come across as too absolute, I should have added caveats. However I did study the DSS under one of the original analysts in the pre-all catholic research group at Uni (did horribly on the exam!). He was convinced that the messages held within them were dangerous to the vatican and the papcay, and the story about 'retro-fitting' daniel came from him. Not only were daniel and ezekiel's words interpretted as being about Jesus, the wording was changed in the original scripture so as to make it appear a stronger prophecy than it was originally. However I forget the detail about what was changed, and can't remember the name of my lecturer (I blame the CIA mind control programme!).

Also I give no credence to books like HB&HG they're far to credulous and badly researched. ok ok I haven't actually read them, but I've heard the theories and criticisms of the theories.

PS H - do u know anything about the apocryphal book of timothy where jesus is meant to have slept the night in the same bed as lazarus after his raising - completely naked! Sounds like body warmth transfer, but I'd like to know if this is real or an invention.

 

[harlequin2005]

Oh, that's real enough... I don't remember it being Timothy and it looks like I've not put the book back where it should be. I have the feeling that its an Alternative Mark. Whether its real (as in an original part of MArk, or a later interpolation is open to debate... if i find the book I'm looking for, I'll post it here

8¬)

 

[dot23]

I have a strange feeling it may have been a colin wilson...

and i'm also fairly sure it was an apocryphal gospel, found in a greek monastery in the late 60s.

cool if you could chase it up tho harl

 

[harlequin2005]

Tad-ahh!

The Secret Gospel of Mark this is the bit you were asking about:-

Mark 10:32-46

. . . They were on their way up to Jerusalem, with Jesus leading the way, and the disciples were astonished, while those who followed were afraid. Again he took the Twelve aside and told them what was going to happen to him. "We are going up to Jerusalem," he said, "and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise."

And they went to Bethany and there was a woman whose brother had died. And coming up to him, she prostrated herself before Jesus and said to him, "Son of David, have mercy on me." But the disciples rebuked her.

And becoming angry, Jesus went with her to the garden where the tomb was. And immediately a great sound was heard from the tomb, and Jesus, going toward it, rolled away the stone from the entrance to the tomb. And going in immediately where the young man was, he stretched out a hand and raised him up, holding his hand. Then, the man looked at him and loved him and he began to call him to his side, that he might be with him. And going from the tomb, they went to the house of the young man, for he was rich. And after six days, Jesus instructed him. And when it was late, the young man went to him. He had put a linen around his naked body, and he remained with him through that night. For Jesus taught him the mystery of the kingdom of God. After he got up from there, he turned to the region of the Jordan.



Alternate reading in red.

Take a look at Early Gospels Net for more

8¬)

 

[dot23]

Calling all Xians...

14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

(15) Jesus said, "When you see one who was not born of woman, prostrate yourselves on your faces and worship him. That one is your father."

(16) Jesus said, "Men think, perhaps, that it is peace which I have come to cast upon the world. They do not know that it is dissension which I have come to cast upon the earth: fire, sword, and war. For there will be five in a house: three will be against two, and two against three, the father against the son, and the son against the father. And they will stand solitary."

(30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him."

(39) Jesus said, "The pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (gnosis) and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

(55) Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate his father and his mother cannot become a disciple to me. And whoever does not hate his brothers and sisters and take up his cross in my way will not be worthy of me."

I thought some of the parables were odd but these take the biscuit... From the gospel of 'Doubting' Thomas - i'm not surprised he doubted, I'd be pretty perplexed myself. Taken fom the site in Harl's link above, what do other Xians think about these other gospels? It's very convenient that 3 present day gospels all come form one source document (Q), whilst a range of other material, which doesn't make Jesus' godhead quite so clear cut, cf v15 above, is now considered almost heretical. And what the f**k is 30 on about? Three gods? 2 or 1? All very fishy.

39 - another reference to hidden knowledge - what was it and were did it go? The temple of Solomon?

55 - what happened to 'love thy neighbour'?

Still makes Jesus look even cooler IMHO, metaphorically speaking, of course.