Hello, Im not very much into posting in forums as into reading them, but i have this question regarding something that happened to me last night, to make the long story short. I woke up during a dream, that is, i realized that i was dreaming and thought "ok, this is the poerfect time to tray some dream travel (soul travel, etc etc)" I stated my intent to do that, as in any magical operation... BUT, what happened was that the dream image got stretched vertically, like when stretching the image of a monitor and suddenly got all dark and my ears and head started throbbing very hard, it almost hurt... i felt like an organic barrier, like if the body wasnt letting go... i practically cxrashed agaisnt that "organic barrier"... i was lusid and fully consciouss while dreaming when that happened, any thoughts on that?? i thank you very much for your help!
Magic Using Astral Travel / Lucid Dreaming / Sleep
- Thread starter Moyocoyan
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Anonymous
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That certainly sounds unusual. :? Do you suffer from sleep paralysis at all?
I was going to wait and pitch in my tuppence only after the more knowledgeable peers of FTMB had done the prep, but failing that Dark One, here goes:
For all our technological discoveries, for all our myriad labour-saving devices, basic human processes (such as sleep) are still very poorly understood. Not least of all, the role of “consciousness” in the sleep cycle.
The proscribed view is that consciousness and sleep are two antipodal functions. Mutually, and biologically exclusive. However, as far back as 1913, Frederick Van Eeden – a Dutch psychiatrist - coined the term “Lucid dreaming”. He described this state as being:
“the re-integration of the psychic function (is) so complete that the sleeper reaches a state of perfect awareness and is able to direct his attention, and to attempt different acts of free volition. Yet the sleep, as I am able confidently to state, is undisturbed, deep, and refreshing”.
Implying that consciousness had any part of the sleep cycle, notably during the “deep” sleep of the dream state, was strongly denied by opponents of Eeden’s theories, and they continued this denial well into the 1960’s. In a nutshell, there argument was that these periods of “consciousness” must be brief moment of wakefulness between different sleep states, and could not occur during the REM (at the time thought to be the only dream) phase.
In the late 1970’s, researchers at both the University of Hull (UK), and Stanford University began experiments into lucid dreaming. Experiments, that eventually met with no small success.
>>HERE<< is a good article, whose opening paragraphs I have precis’d above. It goes on to discuss how one can become a lucid dreamer, some of the actions one can perform whilst in this state (anyone for sex?), the role of the separate cranial hemispheres – all that guff.
What it doesn’t discuss so much, and which therefore I’ll touch on here, are some impressions I get from your account. You say that you woke up / gained consciousness / became aware, and thought this is a good time for some astral travel. OK, so far, so good.
Then you say you stated your intent, as in any magical operation. Do you mind if I ask you why you did that?
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate certain formalities in various magical procedures are the de rigueur, but what’s magical about having a lucid dream? Far better to simply get up and walk about. Or to try and feel your body rise off the bed, and maybe see how much higher you get. And then reference whether what you see actually exists in reality, or whether you are still in the reality of your dreaming mind.
I’d hazard that your feeling of bodily discomfort, far from being a supernatural experience, is more likely to be some kind of feedback loop / short circuit of your proprioceptivesystem. If you don’t want to get bogged down by Wiki’s definition of Proprioceptive, then it just means the sensations you have relating to the internal of the body, and certain spatial judgements. When a cop pulls you over and asks you to close your eyes and touch your nose, you are using the proprioceptive sense, for instance.
If this possibility doesn’t seem to ring true, then there are many, many articles about the phenomena of “autoscopic hallucinations” – the viewing of your own body when in different psychologically dissociated states. The Swiss researcher Peter Brugger is conducting many investigations into this phenomena from the University Hospital Zurich. Many of the papers published from data culled from his experiments are chargeable, however. If you have the inclination, he’s eminently google-able.
Hope I’ve given you something to be going on with…
For all our technological discoveries, for all our myriad labour-saving devices, basic human processes (such as sleep) are still very poorly understood. Not least of all, the role of “consciousness” in the sleep cycle.
The proscribed view is that consciousness and sleep are two antipodal functions. Mutually, and biologically exclusive. However, as far back as 1913, Frederick Van Eeden – a Dutch psychiatrist - coined the term “Lucid dreaming”. He described this state as being:
“the re-integration of the psychic function (is) so complete that the sleeper reaches a state of perfect awareness and is able to direct his attention, and to attempt different acts of free volition. Yet the sleep, as I am able confidently to state, is undisturbed, deep, and refreshing”.
Implying that consciousness had any part of the sleep cycle, notably during the “deep” sleep of the dream state, was strongly denied by opponents of Eeden’s theories, and they continued this denial well into the 1960’s. In a nutshell, there argument was that these periods of “consciousness” must be brief moment of wakefulness between different sleep states, and could not occur during the REM (at the time thought to be the only dream) phase.
In the late 1970’s, researchers at both the University of Hull (UK), and Stanford University began experiments into lucid dreaming. Experiments, that eventually met with no small success.
>>HERE<< is a good article, whose opening paragraphs I have precis’d above. It goes on to discuss how one can become a lucid dreamer, some of the actions one can perform whilst in this state (anyone for sex?), the role of the separate cranial hemispheres – all that guff.
What it doesn’t discuss so much, and which therefore I’ll touch on here, are some impressions I get from your account. You say that you woke up / gained consciousness / became aware, and thought this is a good time for some astral travel. OK, so far, so good.
Then you say you stated your intent, as in any magical operation. Do you mind if I ask you why you did that?
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate certain formalities in various magical procedures are the de rigueur, but what’s magical about having a lucid dream? Far better to simply get up and walk about. Or to try and feel your body rise off the bed, and maybe see how much higher you get. And then reference whether what you see actually exists in reality, or whether you are still in the reality of your dreaming mind.
I’d hazard that your feeling of bodily discomfort, far from being a supernatural experience, is more likely to be some kind of feedback loop / short circuit of your proprioceptivesystem. If you don’t want to get bogged down by Wiki’s definition of Proprioceptive, then it just means the sensations you have relating to the internal of the body, and certain spatial judgements. When a cop pulls you over and asks you to close your eyes and touch your nose, you are using the proprioceptive sense, for instance.
If this possibility doesn’t seem to ring true, then there are many, many articles about the phenomena of “autoscopic hallucinations” – the viewing of your own body when in different psychologically dissociated states. The Swiss researcher Peter Brugger is conducting many investigations into this phenomena from the University Hospital Zurich. Many of the papers published from data culled from his experiments are chargeable, however. If you have the inclination, he’s eminently google-able.
Hope I’ve given you something to be going on with…
Since I became interest in astral travel (significantly different from OOBEs it should be told) when I was 15 I've conducted all sorts of sleep experiments on myself with some interesting results (the best one was deliberately not sleeping for 72 hours without the aid of any kind of stimulant.. I felt strangely awake but kept seeing fairies in bushes etc. It was like a dream).
The pressure in the head is pretty common as far as I'm aware, and over the years I came to think of it as a temporary form of temporal lobe epilepsy. This kind of correlates with the concept of the night hag and sleep paralysis from how people describe it (and as I've experienced it) because of the nature of the hallucinations and panicky feeling that comes along with the sensation of building pressure in the head. What I have found though, is that the experience is not so far removed from lucid dreaming, and one can frequently turn into the other.
When experiencing this sensation, it's worth remembering - "You are not going to die. You can wake up at any time. You are totally in control". Once you get over the initial panic, then you can potentially find yourself entering 1.normal sleep 2. waking up/wrenching yourself awake 3. a lucid dream and (the best one) 4. a kind of waking dream where you are in a controllable hypnogogic state and can try and experience some kind of weird waking experience like an OOBE, elves dancing around the room, your favourite porn star lying on top of you etc etc.
You can self induce this state (which I think people do subconsciously and thus triggering sleep paralysis) by really making your visual cortex tired. Try reading all day without your glasses or staring at a monitor for 6 hours before going to bed. Whatever you do, DON'T try a meditative technique that requires excessive concentration. I don't know whether it's dangerous, but I found in the early days that meditating too hard can make you feel quite ill the next day - severe headache and blurry vision etc. If you're going to meditate, lift your eyebrows so as not to put pressure on your eyes, and just think about it gently.
Does any of this make sense? :shock:
The pressure in the head is pretty common as far as I'm aware, and over the years I came to think of it as a temporary form of temporal lobe epilepsy. This kind of correlates with the concept of the night hag and sleep paralysis from how people describe it (and as I've experienced it) because of the nature of the hallucinations and panicky feeling that comes along with the sensation of building pressure in the head. What I have found though, is that the experience is not so far removed from lucid dreaming, and one can frequently turn into the other.
When experiencing this sensation, it's worth remembering - "You are not going to die. You can wake up at any time. You are totally in control". Once you get over the initial panic, then you can potentially find yourself entering 1.normal sleep 2. waking up/wrenching yourself awake 3. a lucid dream and (the best one) 4. a kind of waking dream where you are in a controllable hypnogogic state and can try and experience some kind of weird waking experience like an OOBE, elves dancing around the room, your favourite porn star lying on top of you etc etc.
You can self induce this state (which I think people do subconsciously and thus triggering sleep paralysis) by really making your visual cortex tired. Try reading all day without your glasses or staring at a monitor for 6 hours before going to bed. Whatever you do, DON'T try a meditative technique that requires excessive concentration. I don't know whether it's dangerous, but I found in the early days that meditating too hard can make you feel quite ill the next day - severe headache and blurry vision etc. If you're going to meditate, lift your eyebrows so as not to put pressure on your eyes, and just think about it gently.
Does any of this make sense? :shock:
A
Anonymous
Guest
Lucid dreaming is an allegedly useful tool for the performance of sigil magick as it allows you to forget your intent while remembering what you have done (instant gnosis). I'm not sure how useful it is though, as the few times I have ever become aware that I was dreaming in my dreams my instant thought was 'Dude, I'm dreaming! I know, I'll fly and throw stuff at the people in my dream."
A
Anonymous
Guest
Having had quite a few of the lucid dreams where you control stuff, fly, teleport from one place to another, make stuff appear out of nowhere, merge places etc; I think I have one hell of an imagination when I dream.
Don't know why I'm always travelling though - always travelling somewhere for something.
Don't know why I'm always travelling though - always travelling somewhere for something.
Thats definitely "something to be going on with"
I tend to keep it complicated sometimes, best protocol i thought of was the magickal one. And was trying to make sure i didnt get fooled, but seems like it didnt work... i will keep researching on that info, it is definitely useful.
Still wonder why it didnt work. As far as i know it should have. Maybe i was just forcing it...
And well... fear of death sound logical, taking on account what supposedly happens when trying any oobe.
I tend to keep it complicated sometimes, best protocol i thought of was the magickal one. And was trying to make sure i didnt get fooled, but seems like it didnt work... i will keep researching on that info, it is definitely useful.
Still wonder why it didnt work. As far as i know it should have. Maybe i was just forcing it...
And well... fear of death sound logical, taking on account what supposedly happens when trying any oobe.
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An interesting archival episode of Coast To Coast A.M. with the late Art Bell has just gone up on YouTube:
Psychophysiologist Dr. Stephen La Berge joined his associate at the Lucidity Institute, Dominick Attisani, to discuss how science is researching consciousness via the laboratory of the mind and lucid dreaming. La Berge defined a 'lucid dream' as simply a dream in which you know that your dreaming, and pointed out that anyone can learn to have lucid dreams. The place to start is with 'dream recall,' he explained, which is the ability remember your dreams. Attisani suggested an increased awareness of what we are doing, in our waking and dream lives, can help develop the ability to recognize when we are in a dream.
Episode originally aired 24/3/07
Source:
Psychophysiologist Dr. Stephen La Berge joined his associate at the Lucidity Institute, Dominick Attisani, to discuss how science is researching consciousness via the laboratory of the mind and lucid dreaming. La Berge defined a 'lucid dream' as simply a dream in which you know that your dreaming, and pointed out that anyone can learn to have lucid dreams. The place to start is with 'dream recall,' he explained, which is the ability remember your dreams. Attisani suggested an increased awareness of what we are doing, in our waking and dream lives, can help develop the ability to recognize when we are in a dream.
Episode originally aired 24/3/07
Source:
IbisNibs
Exotic animal, sort of . . .
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Sorry, I copied and pasted the description.