SETI To Make Contact Within 25 Years

dr wu

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Dr wu,

..why haven't 'they' openly contacted us? ..

Some people on Casebook would say they have ;)

Darn space Brothers, their everywhere.

INT21.

Ah well, going down stairs to watch the first of the new series of 'Death in Paradise'.

Catch y'all later.
Well...the people on Casebook aren't all playing with a full deck.
;)
No...getting serious for a moment...I meant openly regarding govts, etc..on a global level.....not abducting people and probing them.

ps: I watched the first 2 seasons of Death years ago...for some reason It didn't interest me after that.
 

INT21

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2nd series was the best.

This new one seems like a bit of a space filler.

INT21.
 

eburacum

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I'd like to see the spaceship that could survive a beam that is detectable from billions of light years away.
There are two problems with beam propulsion, and this is one of them. The energy of the beam when it hits the ship would need to be equal to the energy that a rocket would have produced, if the ship had been propelled by a rocket; this allows the craft to accelerate exactly as if it were carring an inexhaustible supply of fuel. So the beam needs to be powerful enough to supply this energy at a distance. Because of the difficulty in focusing such a beam at a long distance, the beam would spread out and a significant fraction of the beam would miss the ship- this is what we might be detecting. An artificially focused beam of this kind might be detectable at millions of light years, depending on the focusing mechanism. But we'd need to be extremely lucky to detect suct a beam (unless they are very, very common).
 

eburacum

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How does it slow down at it's destination ?
And this is the second problem. Robert Forward (who was a big proponent of beamed propulsion) suggested sending two sails, the first one designed to double as a mirror which could then slow the second one down. This would require a very powerful, very tightly focused beam, which would be effective at interstellar distances - and which should be detectable at multi-million light-year distances. But there are a number of severe logistical problems with such a beam. Another thing to note is that a beam of this strength and accuracy would make a fantastically destructive weapon.
 

eburacum

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I'd like to see the electricity bill for the laser.
It would be very, very large. Charlie Stross has calculated that sending a payload the size of a Volkswagen to Alpha Centauri would cost the entire electricity budget of the Earth for a year. But remember that this is the most efficient way of doing it- to send a rocket, you'd have to accelerate the fuel and propellant as well, multiplying the total energy requirements by many orders of magnitude.
 

INT21

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So at least we can agree that 'they' if they even exist and if they are interstellar travelers, don't use Solar Sails.

Back to the drawing board.

INT21
 

eburacum

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No, quite the opposite. I think that beamed propulsion (not solar sails, which do not use beams, but rely on ambient sunlight) may be the most realistic option for interstellar travel. Warp drive and wormholes almost certainly do not exist, or if they do, they are of marginal utility; but beamed production could carry data and resources from star A to star B without any imponderable technological advances. They are a brute-force method of transport, but significantly more efficient than rocketry.

I expect we'll be using some sort of beamed propulsion within the next 200 years; getting to the stars would be just a matter of scaling up.
 

dr wu

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l. Warp drive and wormholes almost certainly do not exist, or if they do, they are of marginal utility;
Says who....current scientific knowledge...?
200 years ago we were still riding horses...and 100 years ago we just invented the automobile. My point is that perhaps we understand little about the true nature of what is possible. I suspect we will be doing all manner of things in the future that we think are impossible now.
Since this is all speculation anyway....maybe we shouldn't be so dogmatic about what might be possible in the future.
Just food for thought.
:)
 

INT21

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...but beamed production could carry data and resources from star A to star B without any imponderable technological advances ..

What form of resources did you have in mind ?

Dr wu,

..I suspect we will be doing all manner of things in the future that we think are impossible now. ..

If we are not still bogged down with social problems.

INT21.
 

INT21

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...ps: I watched the first 2 seasons of Death years ago. ..

I take it we are talking about the same drama ?

I ask this because you live in Indiana. The program is quintesentially English even though it is set on a Caribbean island.

INT21.
 

dr wu

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...ps: I watched the first 2 seasons of Death years ago. ..

I take it we are talking about the same drama ?

I ask this because you live in Indiana. The program is quintesentially English even though it is set on a Caribbean island.

INT21.
Same show...watched the first 2 seasons....I have watched a lot of Brit tv shows over the years. The original detective seemed more serious etc and the later younger looking one was more comedic...at that point I stopped watching it.
 

INT21

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You are missing nothing with the new series.

Danny John-Jules is out, so no more Dwayne.
A replacement is due. i was wondering if 'Humphrey' or .Camille. would come back. No.

So O'Hanlon is still cop cop. (replaced Humphrey in third series).

Ben Miller, who took Inspector Richard Poole, was actually a physics graduate before the took up comedy. So you'r right , he was a serious guy.

INT21.
 

dr wu

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I liked Ben Miller as the original detective on that island...I wished he had done it longer. He was like a fish out of water and I liked that contrast.
 

INT21

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I didn't start watching it until the second series, so I had to go back to see how Inspector Poole came to be there.

But now they are bringing the Commissioner's niece into the show.

So we will see.

INT21.
 

eburacum

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...but beamed production could carry data and resources from star A to star B without any imponderable technological advances ..

What form of resources did you have in mind ?
The most valuable resource would be human minds (and human bodies as well if necessary).
 

eburacum

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Says who....current scientific knowledge...?
200 years ago we were still riding horses...and 100 years ago we just invented the automobile. My point is that perhaps we understand little about the true nature of what is possible. I suspect we will be doing all manner of things in the future that we think are impossible now.
Since this is all speculation anyway....maybe we shouldn't be so dogmatic about what might be possible in the future.
Just food for thought.
:)
Well, I want warp drive and wormholes to work as well, but this is just wishful thinking. There is plenty of theory concerning these concepts, but most of the theory suggests that they are impractical. We've all been trained by pulp science fiction to think that they would work, when there is very little basis in reality for this.
 

markrkingston1

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Says who....current scientific knowledge...?
200 years ago we were still riding horses...and 100 years ago we just invented the automobile. My point is that perhaps we understand little about the true nature of what is possible. I suspect we will be doing all manner of things in the future that we think are impossible now.
Since this is all speculation anyway....maybe we shouldn't be so dogmatic about what might be possible in the future.
Just food for thought.
:)
This.

We are ignorant of much. We can say that "X seems impractical or impossible" as long as we also say "based upon current knowledge".
 

dr wu

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Well, I want warp drive and wormholes to work as well, but this is just wishful thinking. There is plenty of theory concerning these concepts, but most of the theory suggests that they are impractical. We've all been trained by pulp science fiction to think that they would work, when there is very little basis in reality for this.
Based on our current level of ability.....it's unknown what we might be able to do 200 years from now.
 

eburacum

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Trouble is, the tendency is for things to go the other way. 200 years ago, we only knew about Newtonian mechanics; in that paradigm, the speed of light is no more of a barrier than the speed of sound. Now we know that we can't accelerate past c, and we can't even approach c without expending an exponential amount of energy.

In 200 years time the situation might be worse, not better. Wormhole travel might even be slower than travel in normal space (as Greg Egan has suggested).
 
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Naughty_Felid

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Says who....current scientific knowledge...?
200 years ago we were still riding horses...and 100 years ago we just invented the automobile. My point is that perhaps we understand little about the true nature of what is possible. I suspect we will be doing all manner of things in the future that we think are impossible now.
Since this is all speculation anyway....maybe we shouldn't be so dogmatic about what might be possible in the future.
Just food for thought.
:)
yes but that is speculation. In a 100 years we could have engines powered by doughnuts.
 

INT21

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..In a 100 years we could have engines powered by doughnuts...

Nice to see that radical scientific speculation is alive and well

I have a feeling that something a bit more 'off the wall' than doughnuts will be required.

INT21
 

PeteByrdie

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Same show...watched the first 2 seasons....I have watched a lot of Brit tv shows over the years. The original detective seemed more serious etc and the later younger looking one was more comedic...at that point I stopped watching it.
I lost interest in it when Sara Martin's left the show... strange that.
 

PeteByrdie

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Trouble is, the tendency is for things to go the other way. 200 years ago, we only knew about Newtonian mechanics; in that paradigm, the speed of light is no more of a barrier than the speed of sound. Now we know that we can't accelerate past c, and we can't even approach c without expending an exponential amount of energy.

In 200 years time the situation might be worse, not better. Wormhole travel might even be slower than travel in normal space (as Greg Egan has suggested).
I suspect we'll still be discussing how best to explore extrasolar space, and perhaps just as fruitlessly, long after we've begun colonizing the solar system, which has plenty of space and resources for us for some time to come. I imagine that's where our technological advances will continue to take us further, rather than giving us interstellar capability.
 

INT21

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Couldn't place her. Just looked her up. I wouldn't have recognised her as Camille if the notes hadn't said it was so.

INT21.
 

INT21

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..I imagine that's where our technological advances will continue to take us further, rather than giving us interstellar capability. ..

When it becomes as common place to get on a craft to Mars as it is to take a normal air travel flight then we may want to think about the 'long haul' business.

Let's get to Mars first.

INT21.
 
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