The Personality Of Towns & Villages

[merricat]

Reminds me of a story my dad told me long ago, about a town that several of his fishing buddies lived in. There was one of those problem families causing all sorts of trouble and misery, so the town government and some prominent citizens got together to do something about it. The story goes that they bought a house in another town, and traded it to the family for the rathole they owned. Then they had the fire department burn down the nasty place. Of course, the people in the town the family moved to were not amused, and feuding erupted. What a legacy to leave behind!

In some of these places, I highly doubt that anyone even associates with their neighbours, let alone community.

There's one particular area where an old family friend of mine still lives, he inherited his house, and although he isn't altogether happy there, he doesn't seem interested in moving on. For the past 10 years his neighbour at the back (their gardens almost meet, so 10 ft from his door) keeps a long neglected German Shepherd in the yard....well, one of several. As soon as one dies he finds another. These animals are never walked, are left alone for up to 12 hours a day and literally live in a sea of their own waste. The poor creatures are generally terrified and aggressive as not socialised.
As far as I am aware (haven't been in contact for a while) the 'current' dog's owner has been reported (by my friend and his family) to several animal charities with no result. The dog is shut into the yard on bonfire night each year and left to moan and whimper all night long. It's devastatingly cruel.

There's definitely a sense that no one cares. The neighbours simply don't seem to notice, no matter how loud the dog cries. I grew up with dogs, farm dogs, pets, working dogs, etc - no one would have allowed this to continue. This place...it's a different world.

What baffles me is that the rental properties in this area average at £700-800 pcm, although house sales are cheap. I rented a lovely cottage in Windermere for 2 yrs that only cost me £525!

@Cloudbusting - this area is Scholes nr Wigan. It isn't in my neck of the woods but I am familiar with it (I was born nr Up Holland).

 

[Cloudbusting]

In some of these places, I highly doubt that anyone even associates with their neighbours, let alone community.

There's one particular area where an old family friend of mine still lives, he inherited his house, and although he isn't altogether happy there, he doesn't seem interested in moving on. For the past 10 years his neighbour at the back (their gardens almost meet, so 10 ft from his door) keeps a long neglected German Shepherd in the yard....well, one of several. As soon as one dies he finds another. These animals are never walked, are left alone for up to 12 hours a day and literally live in a sea of their own waste. The poor creatures are generally terrified and aggressive as not socialised.
As far as I am aware (haven't been in contact for a while) the 'current' dog's owner has been reported (by my friend and his family) to several animal charities with no result. The dog is shut into the yard on bonfire night each year and left to moan and whimper all night long. It's devastatingly cruel.

There's definitely a sense that no one cares. The neighbours simply don't seem to notice, no matter how loud the dog cries. I grew up with dogs, farm dogs, pets, working dogs, etc - no one would have allowed this to continue. This place...it's a different world.

What baffles me is that the rental properties in this area average at £700-800 pcm, although house sales are cheap. I rented a lovely cottage in Windermere for 2 yrs that only cost me £525!

@Cloudbusting - this area is Scholes nr Wigan. It isn't in my neck of the woods but I am familiar with it (I was born nr Up Holland).

I see! Thank you Merricat. As I say I'm very familiar with the North but sods law that's an area I can't comment on. I understand the phenomenon you're talking about though.

 

[SimonBurchell]

Anyone on here familiar with Insch in Aberdeenshire? I passed through in the mid-90s, that place gave me the creeps. The kind of place where everyone stops what they are doing and stares at you as you drive through. I thought it was the wicker man for me and my brother... I appreciate it may have changed in the intervening 30-odd years.

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

That's a very sensitive survey of a changing town. The personalities of places definitely change. I think it has a lot to do with economic changes. I think the centre of Leeds has changed a lot since the 80s. It's almost glamorous.

It really has. "My" Leeds was the Leeds of the late 70s upto 1980. (Yorkshire Ripper time). And of course, that in itself led to a very specific feeling/atmosphere to the city. But when we go there now, I can still see my Leeds under the surface. I can remember the city centre buildings all being black from industrial pollution then in the mid 70s or so, they started cleaning the stones and suddenly, things were white, or red, or whatever, again. And that was another change. I'd genuinely grown up thinking Leeds churches were jet black.

My dad was 4th gen of his family born in Leeds, and I was 5th and last. He always taught me to look up, in the city centre - those amazing statues, clocks, etc high up on buildings, often un-noticed in the 70s, before everything was gentrified (and I remember him driving us up something that was a street but now is a closed in arcade, the posh one with all the designer shops - half of em probably then were empty, boarded up, or run by ancient grannies selling broken biscuits, or whatever.

Gentrification and property prices have transformed the city, I guess. My great grandad owned a massive Victorian house, had a new 1930s' house built, and also owned an entire little terrace of stone cottages in Shadwell. That amount of property would make you a multi millionaire now. But he was just a milk dealer, son of a farmer. So yes, economic changes. Also intangibles. Leeds is a great example of the zeitgeist of a place shifting though. Anyone there in the 70s, remembers the tattered 'Take Back The Night' posters in underpasses, and the overwhelming sense of fear, everywhere. I left just a couple months before Sutcliffe was arrested. And when we went back, it felt so different.

I love people appreciating beautiful architecture more than they did in the past but I'll admit I hate gentrification.

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Exeter High Street isn't faring much better, @Paul_Exeter . Since the Royal Clarence burnt down pre-Covid it's been an eyesore on the Cathedral Green, and will never be a hotel again. Conversely developers are turning the old House of Frasers on the High Street into a hotel. But the big purpose-built Debenhams in Princesshay is empty, and there are plenty of hollow echoing commercial units to be found...

Such a shame, haven’t been back for three years (other than passing through the station)

Add to that the Cathedral lot ordering that the Roman bath house and other ruins be covered over with soil and grass - Cathedral Green - lest they detract from their precious building (and donations) :

https://www.exploringexeter.co.uk/exeter-roman-baths-history-devon/

 

[ramonmercado]

Such a shame, haven’t been back for three years (other than passing through the station)

Add to that the Cathedral lot ordering that the Roman bath house and other ruins be covered over with soil and grass - Cathedral Green - lest they detract from their precious building (and donations) :

https://www.exploringexeter.co.uk/exeter-roman-baths-history-devon/

A new chapter in the Cathedral's history is revealed.

Archaeological excavations at Exeter Cathedral have uncovered hidden features from the building's Norman past, project leaders have said.

Experts said they were now certain they had found the foundations of the cathedral's original high altar from the early 12th Century.
An area thought to be a crypt and tombs have also been unearthed.
The dig, in the cathedral's quire [choir] area, has been carried out before underfloor heating is installed.

Tombs of what are thought to be bishops from the 12th Century and 13th Century have been unearthed.
Two empty tombs excavated are thought to be those of bishops Robert Warelwast and William Brewer, whose remains were moved in 1320.

Cathedral archaeologist John Allan said: "We have found the buried floors of the Norman cathedral, last seen about 700 years ago, with the original high altar.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-66336019

 

[AnonyJ]

Being a long-term resident from birth in the south-west of England, in small/medium towns and villages I think one of the reasons for the marked decline in environment/behaviour is the current availability of cheap and potent booze you don't need to go to the pub for, and the ubiquity of cheap(ish) and very potent cannabis and synthetic drugs.

Rural areas have all the issues of urban streets in microcosm plus a few others influenced by rural isolation.

People seem to want everything cheaply and instantly hence the proliferation of cheap food & booze and the dearth of independent shops. We have the power as individuals to influence such developments in our local areas - by using cash (or not), by using independent shops (or not) and refusing to use self-service tills (or not).

 

[Stormkhan]

Sometimes there are subtle signs which say much of the 'personality' of a place.
There's a local FB group, like many, called "The Filey Moan". I've now found out there's a splinter group been formed - "The REAL Filey Moan".
I don't read group posts like this - I am horrified and disgusted by some of the outrageously bigoted and xenophobic rants, by those who invariably call themselves "Filey Born and Bred", as if this is a vindication. But I'm fascinated by the idea that someone has gone to the effort of forming a rival group. I mean, is it for Filey Born & Bred only? Or is the original group not moaning enough?

 

[Floyd]

I had a shock moving from Exeter to a non-coastal, former mining Cornish town. I had lived near the quay in Exeter with the prestigious Princesshay shopping centre a 10-minute walk through the beautiful Cathedral grounds. Then there was a park full of mature trees and benches and an active residents association meant very little anti-social behaviour. Next was immediate access to the historic quay with its bars, cafes and antiques shops. Then you could walk down the river to the large countryside park and an 8-mile walk along the canal and estuary through wildfowl reserves and past the Powderham Estate deer park until you came across even so much as a village.

Now the nearest park to me has a single bench usually occupied by small-time drug dealers and not a single tree. Shop after shop has closed and the high street is visibly dying. Regular anti-social behaviour from bored teenagers and lots of malnourished blokes in hoodies loitering around either buying or selling drugs. The constant waft of sickly cannabis smoke as you walk home. You can see down into the back yard of the local 'Spoons and I once actually saw a fight at some post-Christening drinks, and yes the baby was still there. It is all down to the loss of well-paid, skilled manufacturing and mining jobs since the 70's that has devastated the 'heartlands' of Cornwall.

There are still plenty of decent people, though. People who still have pride in their Cornish identity. You see it when they all gather for the rugby or the festival days. And yes, I do like it here, the incredibly fresh Atlantic air, the rail and bus connections to the coast and Plymouth and beyond, the superb walking up along the old mining trails in the hills and the far-reaching views. But Doc Martin it ain't.

Can we blame such behaviour on economic factors though?
A lot of my Grandad's generation (and parents as well actually) had very little money (and also spent six years fighting a war) yet they didn't set fire to benches and rip up trees because they were 'angry' and/or 'bored'.

 

[Floyd]

Towns like Totnes that have fought against this homogenisation and still have a bustling high-street full of independent shops and cafes unfortunately become a magnet to down-sizers from London and the home counties and as a result property prices sky rocket and the actual locals are forced out (I know, I've lived there).

Similarly Ludlow (Shropshire) and Kendal (Cumbria), both seemingly thriving towns that resisted the onslaught of high street over-branding. They certainly have managed to preserve their original 'market town' authenticity... to a point. However, having lived in both I do believe that the cracks are beginning to show somewhat as the affordable and unaffordable areas sit uneasily side by side. I lived in Ambleside for a while and there is most definitely a seething tension boiling away beneath the cosy glamour of Wordsworth/Beatrix Potter twee.

Larger, ex industrial towns in the North West are evidently struggling, some having become unrecognisable to me within the last 15 or so years. There's something homogenous about them, in the sense that I wouldn't be able to tell one from the other nowadays, especially the dying high streets littered with casino's, fast food joints and betting shops. I suspect there's very little to actually do in most of these places, now.

I am struck by how many male youths are out in packs, roaming the streets and taking over previously quiet spaces (what might once have been local beauty spots), wrecking or setting fire to seating areas and new trees. Refuse is piling up alongside the canals in some areas - I took a train to Manchester last year and witnessed a slurry of trash along the embankments as we approached Bolton which stretched on for at least a mile. A phenomenal eyesore, reminiscent of a Mumbai slum. It certainly didn't look like that 10 years ago.

These places remind me of a line in the original Wonka film: "Nobody ever goes in, Nobody ever comes out". There's nothing to do, nowhere to go, and most young people have never had anything to even compare it with.

You don't see so many girls out and about all that often now, in the town I mentioned in my OP. The only local amenities that remain are a football stadium and a gym. There's a very tangible sort of 'violence' in the air, punctuated by the rattling, explosive impact of modded vehicles and off road bikes. Spend enough time there and you might never hear what we might call a pleasant noise for months on end (no laughter, smiling, only shouting, swearing, screaming, smashing and banging). Sadly this is no exaggeration.
Not sure what to make of any of this, but what strikes me the most if how everyone looks exactly the same. I don't think there's even a slight variation in clothing, hairstyles or speech patterns within the entire borough.

Edit to add: With regards to increasing traffic, even the residential areas are crammed (not to mention deafeningly loud). The town centre is perpetually gridlocked. This certainly isn't helping the general mood for either drivers or pedestrians. Very few cycle/walkways available, too.

And a general PS: I feel that I ought to add here that I am strictly referring to the areas in and around the town centre. I am aware that there are some very lovely, active forum members here who hail from in and around the borough, so do not wish to name or 'shame' the exact location for this reason (I do also wonder if they've noticed the changes...).
I am also aware that there are many pleasant places surrounding the troubled spots, and some wonderful people within it!

I wonder if it's an attention seeking thing?

 

[Ghost In The Machine]

That's a very sensitive survey of a changing town. The personalities of places definitely change. I think it has a lot to do with economic changes. I think the centre of Leeds has changed a lot since the 80s. It's almost glamorous.

You're right. Leeds is also almost a classic case study. Remembering what it was like in the time of a certain serial killer. I remember it then as having mucky underpasses with tattered "Reclaim The Night" posters, (see above!) and still sometimes, that poster showing Wilma McCann, the first (canonical) victim, or National Front stickers at eye level on lamp-posts and street crossings...

I swear if you'd gone there not even knowing what was going on 1975-1980, you'd have picked up that the place was under some kind of a shroud.

My dad, born in Leeds in the 1920s, saw something else. He saw an older beauty in it that was temporarily lost, I think.

Birmingham city centre's the same. It went from a grim postwar apocalyptical hellscape of brutalism and cheerful genuflecting to the importance of The Car, to an attractive city centre again, under the old mayor, Dick Knowles. We left there around 2001 and it was unrecognisable from the Birmingham I'd first lived in, in 1980. The whole feel of both places, changed.

Noticed this when I did day supply as a teacher, as well. You'd go into some areas and the whole place felt stabby or creepy or weird. And sure enough, in some playgrounds the kids acted more like little old people. shuffling around sadly - you could imagine them as old blokes smoking Woodbines. Just cowed and defeated before they'd started. Next district along, kids would be "normal" again. One RC school I worked in, in a really downtrodden area where the kids lived in absolute poverty, rats in the living room kind of world - there'd be a great atmosphere. So it wasn't just about economic advantage/disadvantage, or cultural, either. More like a spirit of place. Schools are a microcosm of that, maybe.

ETA: Thinking some more, I wonder if we sometimes associate the concept of "spirit of place" with wild or at least, more rural areas like parts of Cornwall or Cumbria. And in built up areas we don't connect with it so easily or we forget it's still present, somehow? Not sure if that makes sense. But, in a wild landscape that "spirit" is more obvious maybe, and if you're walking down a street built 130 years ago and lived on by thousands and thousands of people since, you feel it less, although actually the spirit of place is not absent at all? (Thinking of that concept of nature spirits/fairies that people felt vanished with creeping urbanisation. That was a tangible concept. I read a Q and A in a (c 1880s?) Victorian newspaper about local folklore round here and some lore about nature spirits just down the road from here and how when those people who lived there were younger - say, Georgian times - they thought fairy stories were more prevalent. But because it was now a built up village (in Victorian terms), they felt the lore was fading because the fairies were leaving - probably the root of Tolkien's idea about elvendom heading West at "the end of days" kinda thing. Like, we've felt for a long time now, that when a place is built on, it's somehow "ruined".