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Unforgivable Sin?

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NilesCalder

Gone But Not Forgotten
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A friend of mine recently told me that, according to the Bible, God will forgive all sins except one: Insulting or taking the name of the Holy Ghost in vain. Do that and you've bought yourself a one way ticket to Hell.

He offered this as a test to see which of us had completely thrown off our Christian programming, but nobody was prepared to risk burning our last bridge if we were wrong in our rejection of Christian Dogma.

Now I do likewise. I wonder what our self-professed Satanists will make of this?

Niles "still bound in the system" Calder
 
I'm not sure I believe that's there's any sin that's unforgivable. Not that this means I'm about to insult the Holy Spirit.

That's just rude.:rolleyes:

Cujo
 
Sin Cinnati

The very notion that any human behavior could somehow be worthy of a God's notice, let alone offend that God, points more toward the human origin of gods than it does toward any actual morality or code of ethics.

If there is a cosmic mind, it's probably not too worried about what the onanistic chimps are doing.
 
Well, if the guy is omnipotent then he can keep track of everything at the same time. So why not us?
 
Dust

Millions of dust motes smash into you each instant, yet you do not bother with them, they are there, and often you're aware of them in a beam of sunlight, but they remain beneath notice mostly.

Think how much less than even a dust mote we would be to a supreme being of some sort.

Besides, anthropomorphizing such abstracts is a study in uselessness anyway.
 
As a Catholic, I was taught that the only unforgivable sin was
Despair and that was a sin against the Holy Spirit.

In a sense, all other horrors were seen as consequences of
such a Despair or denial of Grace.

Well that is what I understood them to mean, but most religion
is a matter of Chinese whispers and at the mercy of its interpreters.
:confused:
 
The "sin against the Holy Ghost"

To feel free, untrammeled, irresponsible, joyous, -- to forget care and death -- to be flooded with sunshine without a fear of night -- to forget the past, to have no thought of the future, no dream of God, or heaven, or hell -- to be intoxicated with the present -- to be conscious only of the clasp and kiss of the one you love -- this is the sin against the Holy Ghost." -- Robert Ingersoll
 
Isn't the Mormon take on things like so: two unforgivable sins.. one: murder, two: denying God after having accepted God?

I'm not sure.
 
The origin of the idea of the Unforgivable Sin is found in the Gospel of Matthew 12:31 - "Every sin and balsphemy shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy concerning the Spirit shall not be forgiven to men." Here Christ addresses the Pharisees who had just accused him of being in league with Beelzebub in regard to his exorcisms.
The word translated "blasphemy" is "blasfemia" (nnnnn! they don't support Greek text here!!), meaning "injurious speech". In the context of what has preceeded the warning, we can presume that it refers to calling 'good' 'evil', not through misunderstanding, but through antipathy to the good.
Taking the point a step further, such a sin would be unforgiveable in that the person commiting wouldn't want it forgiven, thank you very much. I suppose remorse is a prerequisite for real forgiveness - mutually accepted forgiveness.
 
Oh for heavens sake, I dont believe in god.
Why in all thats holy would I believe in god.
For Christs sake, why would I believe in god.
 
A pedantic thought

Wouldn't you have to know The Holy Spirit's name first before you could take it in vain? (lets hope its not called F*ck!):)
 
James Whitehead said:
As a Catholic, I was taught that the only unforgivable sin was
Despair and that was a sin against the Holy Spirit.

In a sense, all other horrors were seen as consequences of
such a Despair or denial of Grace.

Well that is what I understood them to mean, but most religion
is a matter of Chinese whispers and at the mercy of its interpreters.
:confused:
Click to expand...
Oh God, I'm f:(cked.
Christ, now I'm doubly f:(cked...aw, crap...
Incidentally, my sister is a big fan of Ingersoll.
 
the concept of the holy ghost is more metaphorical than literal. take this notion into mind..
the holy ghost is actually your soul, by destroying your body ( " using it in vain " ) and mind, is that not a successful taint that's unforgivable, to most importantly of all, yourself? the sorrow that you carry on beyond death is something that human kind naturally clings to. i'm too tired to get into it.
- shuts up immediatly. -








I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness
Click to expand...
 
The only unforgivable sin in my book is the man who doesn't stand his round in the pub.

Utterly and unequivocally unforgivable.
 
According to Catholic theology there is no such thing as an unforgivable sin.
Such a concept would mean that there is a section of the human soul that is beyond God's power, which doesn't tie in well with the concept of an omnipotent deity.
Of course the sinner has to be truly repentant of his misdeeds, not just trying to cover his bets.
 
Then, by that same logic, there is an unforgivable sin - unrepentance.

Nonny
 
Damn Nonny, that kind of thinking has a Jesuit brilliance to it.
But unrepetence is not an eternal state, even those codemned to hell might, one day, repent of their sins and be allowed access to heaven.
 
It is in the bible, that you won't get forgiven for this. I'll try and find the place again.
 
The ONE and only Sin....[in my less than humble opinion]

It seems to me that the only type of sin that gets punished in ALL of the major religions, past and present, is Pride. Isn't that the one that all of the other sins are somewhat based on?

Taking the name of a deity in vain could be looked upon as being a sin of pride. One might feel as if no God or Goddess could possibly touch one, in any meaningful way, with any of the punishments due us for our blasphemy. That could be considered pride.

Unrepentance? Who wouldn't repent the tortures of Hell if they could? Only the proud, in my estimation!

The hubris of the Greeks. the arrogance of 'modern' Man...


Will they one day write classics of literature about the downfall of our modern states, and if they do, would they even compare with "the Odyssey"? Which Gods will be the ones that are portrayed as having to be the one to scourge us? Let's hope for some exciting and new ones, as the old ones are getting quite boring, really....
 
Why, Oh Why?

It's boggling that anyone wastes even a moment pondering such imponderables. As Groucho Marx said all too many times: Who Do You Trust?
That's the question when it comes to defining "sin" or even deciding if there is such a thing.

A vengeful god of some sort seems a prerequisite. And that's the big leap, right there.

Better to help those within arm length and not bother with matters beyond our ken.
 
Like, FraterLibre, I don't know if I believe in sin, but I'm pretty sure about evil.
 
Arbitrary Terms

chatsubo - I'll pick up this lacey gauntlet and inquire as to how you can know the difference between what's good and what's evil. After all, many times our best intentions and efforts result only in appalling misery being created, while just as often our cruelty and inhumanity leads to moments of grace and respite. I'm not bantering, but seriiously question how anyone can begin to have the arrogance, or hubris, to pretend to be able to tell the difference between "good" and "evil", or "sacred" and "profane", or even up and down.

If mankind is itself the measure, then it seems each of us, like a hologram, encompasses all possible good and all possible bad behavior -- and it further seems that the ramifications of each action are BOTH good and bad, very much depending on context, viewpoint, and on the scale with which we measure things.

Robert A. Heinlein suggested living this way: If it promotes species survival, it's good. If it doesn't, it's bad. He emphasized human species, and in fact also emphasized the individual. Thus anything an individual does to survive is to the good, and anything tending the other way is bad.

This is stark, and somewhat simplistic, but one can view the imperative for survival at work in our very genes, so perhaps it's also not too far off the mark. I'm sure it's also simply not anthropomorphic enough to satisfy most.

So in the spirit of discussion, may I ask what you're sure about when it comes to this term: "evil" ? Which seems as arbitrary to me as the term "sin".

Oh, and incidentally, these terms and the emotions attached to them so carefully by indoctrination allow cynics to manipulate masses. That is religion's purpose, and that is the purpose of these terms, it seems.
 
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in a supernatural force of evil or good, but the fact that these concepts do not have some objective Platonic reality, is why we, in human society, must create them ourselves, a kind of consensual hallucination.
Moral codes may well be arbitary, but they are imporant as they are what seperates us from animals
My, entirely subjective view of evil, is causing undeserved suffering to other humans simply because you have the power to cause that suffering.
 
Lessen Suffering

chatsubo said:
evil, is causing undeserved suffering to other humans simply because you have the power to cause that suffering.
Click to expand...

Very nice, I'd go along with that. Quite Buddhist, actually.

And keep in mind I disagree that moral codes separate us from animals -- they don't need them, you see. More seriously, I don't see any separation, which is a pernicious Paulist xtian notion. Man is part of nature, and we are animals same as any other, and there is no distinction to be made that's not based on hubris.

Accepting that nature is good, not the enemy to be destroyed, is key to survival, yet the desert religions see it the other way 'round, predictably. And so intolerance, pollution, and lust for the End Times grow apace.
 
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