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William Cooper, David Icke & Art Bell

A

Anonymous

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If some of the conspiracies discussed here are true then you would think that they would put some disinformation agents in high places to counter them.

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/artbell.html

http://www.davidicke.net/symbolism/articles/moviesart.html

and this article by the late Bill Cooper is very interesting....

http://www.williamcooper.com/artbsbell.htm

I went and vidited art bells homepage today and i immediatly came accross this image... which as anyone who is fammilier with the illuminati will know, the 'all seeing eye' within the pyramid (like the one on the doller bill) is the symbol of the illuminati.
 
When doves cry...

Anyways to symbols I'm not sure if you seen it or someone has mentioned it to you, but in the movie Mission Impossible 2(Tom Cruise), near the end of the movie, all of a sudden a dove appears(Colon-Seramis?) out of nowhere in front of Hand(Cruise), and appears in two shots.

The dove has absolutely nothing to do with the movie, and in the second shot Hand appears gun in hand, after an explosion with the Dove blazing the trail in front of him.(My apologies if some of the details are incorrect as I saw the movie months ago
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from http://www.davidicke.net/symbolism/articles/moviesart.html

I don't know what this chap is trying to imply but if you've seen the DVD and the extras then his confusion would imediately be cured. The director John Woo has used, in ALL his projects, scenes involving flying doves. By his (Woos) own admission he shoehorned them into the film as he has done before because he considers it a trade mark and good luck to have them in the movie.

By the way Cruise plays Ethan HUNT not Hand.

I'm not an expert on these subjects, particularly Art Bell, but the authors of these pages seem to have some quite unsavoury agendas themselves if you read between the lines.
 
Yep, the're both anti-new world order. We must be mindful of their agenda but not judge them by it though.
 
Adam Rang said:
We must be mindful of their agenda but not judge them by it though.
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What!!????

So Adolf Hitler's agenda was the annihilation of the Jewish people and the subjugation of Europe to Nazi government by military force...but I'm not supposed to judge him by that.

Of course you can judge people by their agenda.
 
That was out of context.

If an anti-American, say, presents evidence that American forces have just bombed inocent civilians then we should just it based on the evidence they present, not on what their motives for presenting the evidence are.

Your talking about something different, judging individuals based on their motives.
 
Adam Rang said:
Your talking about something different, judging individuals based on their motives.
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No I'm not.

A persons agenda is one thing - their motives for holding that agenda are another.

Take Hitler as an extreme example again. His anti-jewish agenda is obvious and painfully well documented. His personal motives for holding that agenda are pretty obscure. We can judge him on both counts.

I agree that simply because someone holds to an agenda that is a complete anathema to me I should not automatically disregard everything they say as an untruth.
 
Unity is the key

It seems to me that the information that these 'anti new world order' chaps (if that's what their agenda truely is and I doubt that very strongly) are trying to get across to us is selective, inacurate and tenuous to the point of rediculous.

Watch "StarTrek" from the beginning episodes up to the present, and you will begin to realize that it was an indoctrination into the concepts of socialism through subliminal initiation of the youth of the nation. The Captains James T. Kirk (JTK = K(nights) (of the) T(emple) (of) J(erusalem) and Christopher Pike are symbolic salutes to the Order of the Templars, and to the Brotherhoods greatest philosopher and probably its most prolific writer the Christed General Albert Pike. The Enterprise represents their great work or plan which if navigated properly will lead them to the realization of their dream of a united socialist utopian world.
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I agree that some of the information may be true BUT they certainly do not promote a ballanced and 'whole' view. If the audience chooses to believe this blindly then the authors are no better than the 'misinformed socialists' they so readily accuse.

On my travels I have found thousands of pockets of people shouting "illuminati, new world order conspiracy, run for you lives!!" from a variety of rooftops and websites. The one thing I have found to be constant in all of their rants is that THEY are the ONLY ones who KNOW THE TRUTH.

If ever these guys all get together and agree on who the enemy is and what they are fighting for then I truely believe they may have something that people could believe in, as it is, they are scattared and dispirate in a wasteland of self promotion and hidden agendas.

By their reputation and circumstance alone even if they have the truth nobody will believe them.
 
Re: Unity is the key

Edward said:
...(if that's what their agenda truely is and I doubt that very strongly)...
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Why don't you come out with what you think their agenda really is then?
 
That's my point entirely

The point behind my post was that there is no single theory and unlikely to ever be one because of the vast array of agendas promoted by a vast array of theorists.

William Cooper seems to be an anti communist redneck with a penchant for seriously misinterpreting TV and Films. As for the Icke links they seem no more credible as proof than the ingredients on the Mars Bar I have on my desk.

What about this, the dictionairy definitions of "Art" and "Bell" are 'skills acquired by experience' and 'a hollow metallic device'. I think we can take this as conclusive scientific proof the Art Bell has definately had experience and communications with UFO's. :)
 
What relevent facts.

The idea is to pick the article's for relevent facts.
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You're point being? That we're supposed to traul though reams of tripe in order to find a nugget of truth.

Why don't you just tell us what they're supposedly saying?

I will defend to death the right to freedom of speach but you have to draw a line when considering the source of your so-called truth.

Would you consider promoting 'the truth' from a KKK newsletter or a Combat 18 website?
 
Yes, but I would do my own research to verify wether or not their truth was thetruth.

I don not consider it to be tripe however as it has many important facts in it.

Example....

FACT: Art Bell will not let David Icke on his show.
FACT: Art Bell is notorious for letting just about anyone on his show.
FACT: David Icke was very popular with Art Bell's audience.
 
Something very interesting has happened. During a presidential speach by Bush a UFO appeared over his shoulder. The footage was put up on Art Bell's site and then Art Bell debunked it and did a very odd thing... he pulled the footage from his site. This behaivour is puzzling as even Art leaves footage up after its been 'debunked'. I've just spoken to someone else and he tells me that this footage has also dissappeard from CNN. If anyones managed to get hold of this then i would really like to see it.
 
Liar, Liar pants on fire.

FACT:

"Everyone seems to have a Bill Cooper story, and mine is a paper I wrote in Los Alamos concerning Project Excalibur. I wrote that in 1988, I had a witness there while I typed that word for word. I printed that out, Lear was hot on the trail looking for connections, and that filled everything, he essentially had all the information that was to be had. John then gave a copy to Bill Cooper and I heard Cooper reading that verbatim, word for word at the MUFON convention. He claimed to have seen it in the mid-70s. I then heard him on Billy Goodman show. I called him, he recognized the voice. He said he knew who I was. I then asked him, Bill that Excalibur missile thing, did you get that at John Lears or did you read that in the 70's. I gave him an out if he had forgotten. He said no, "I read that word for word in 1973". I said okay and thanks. That was my first confirmation that this guy was a complete liar. I had just typed that in 1988. The witness that saw me type this was Gene Huff."

http://www.tje.net/para/documents/cooper_who.htm

Seems to me that at least one of your sources is a bit prone to being economical with the truth.

If, as you suggest, i need to pick through the information from unreliable sources how can I possibly tell the important facts from the made-up fairy tales as, quite obviously, the sources integrity is under serious question ?
 
Bush League UFO Error

It's posted currentlyl at http://www.rense.com

And it was a streetlight, not a UFO.

And it is there before W is wheeled into position and his batteries put in.

So bascically is was much ado about nothing. It is odd that Bell pulled it but I'm betting it was to keep from being ashcrofted.
 
Re: Liar, Liar pants on fire.

Edward said:
Seems to me that at least one of your sources is a bit prone to being economical with the truth.
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That's according to one of your sources.
 
Trust no one.

My sources are the same as yours, it took me about 15mins of searching through google to come up with that and many other 'FACTS' regarding William Cooper, David Icke and Art Bell.

You can't have it both ways, either we should believe everything we read OR we believe nothing we read, unless of course, it's from a proven reliable source.

And there is the sticking point my friend because how on earth can I, you or any other person guarantee the informations pedigree. In this particular arena wanting to believe sometimes clouds the mind into thinking half truths and conjecture add up to FACT.
 
Re: Trust no one.

Edward said:
You can't have it both ways, either we should believe everything we read OR we believe nothing we read, unless of course, it's from a proven reliable source.
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I do neither. I look at the information they provide and then try and verify it. Although I do think that David Icke is a reliable scource.
 
Re: Re: Trust no one.

Adam Rang said:
I do neither. I look at the information they provide and then try and verify it. Although I do think that David Icke is a reliable scource.
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What basis do you have for saying that Icke is a reliable source, other than your own opinion?
If you are going to investigate claims of this kind made by anyone, you have to be objective. You can't just say "Ibelieve this person, but I don't believe that person" You need to have a reason for that position and be able to back it up.
 
I'm simply saying that through my experience I consider Icke to be a reliably person.
 
Do You Solemnly Swear?

He says Reptoids are eating peopleburgers. He says prominent folks are crypto-reptoids. He's apparently watched the TV series V too often.

This is reliable?

Icke is a nut, a loon, a crank. He's gone off the deep end and seems content to wallow there. His basic take makes the ETH seem sane by contrast.

As for Art Bell, he is all about Art Bell, and making profits for same. Period. If he's being hinky about some people, it's probably because they wouldn't go in on some Art Bell promotion scam. That or he fears lawsuits.
 
IMHO Icke is reliable. He would never lie.

Wether or not the world really is being ruled by 12 ft shapeshifting satanic Lizards doesnt make a difference to how reliable he is.
 
Nonsense Rampant

How can his claims make no difference to his reliability?

All human beings lie. It is human nature and unavoidable, even for those dedicated to NOT lying.

Your position is untenable and, I suspect, a jest.
 
Frater, the discussion we were having was how reliable is Icke's sources. The only factor that Icke could effect is wether or not he told the truth. From my experience Icke is trustworthy in the truth. Icke's lizards theories do not effect it for the simple reason that he does actually believe that what he is saying is the truth.
 
Icke's Sources Are...?

Icke's sources are irrelevant if we aren't sure about how accurately he reports them. If we know the exact sources, then why bring him up at all?

From what I understand, he did a Velikovsky and his sources tend to be myths, legends, and other fiction. Further, and worse, he interprets things in a steeply tilted manner in order to slide them into his overall thesis, that of reptoid invasion.

If I'm wrong, then please direct me to reliable sources of nonfictional type supporting Mr. Icke's bizarre claims.

He may well be telling the truth as he sees it. Many madmen do.
 
Fact is stranger than fiction

And there is the sticking point my friend because how on earth can I, you or any other person guarantee the informations pedigree. In this particular arena 'wanting to believe' sometimes clouds the mind into thinking half truths and conjecture add up to FACT.
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I go back to the point above Adam.

Whilst Mr Icke MAY believe he is telling the truth it doesn't necessarily follow that he actually IS telling the truth.

Although, if you asked me to proove that his lizard theories AREN'T true, whilst they are unlikely, i couldn't do it. Much the same as, Does god exist?
 
Mythical Beasts On Parade

Logic dictates one cannot disprove a negative. So that point is moot.

We need not disprove the reptoid nonsense. It is an extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary proof. Books and interpretations aren't even good evidence, let alone proof.

Mr. Icke has all the attributes of the traditional, standard-issue crank. There is no reason to bother further with his assertions, unless and until he brings us a reptoid to dissect and examine.

Same with Bigfoot, Nessie, and Honest Politicians.
 
Re: Fact is stranger than fiction

Edward said:
Whilst Mr Icke MAY believe he is telling the truth it doesn't necessarily follow that he actually IS telling the truth.
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I can see how that logic would be right for the lizard argument... Becuase Icke may have interpreted evidence wrong... but not for the origonal article i provided where Icke stated the circumstances around why he wasnt allowed on the show.
 
You have to remember that Art's show is for "entertainment" purposes. Him and David
are just trying to make a living by selling books, etc.., like everyone else in the world,
unless you make a good remora.
 
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