Cave & Rock Art

[Iris]

A great summary Mungoman. Have a Merry Christmas. It's raining here.

 

[eburacum]

The sweet potato is a mystery that defies solution at the moment. Somehow sweet potatoes have travelled across the Pacific from America, perhaps on a boat.

 

[Mungoman]

A great summary Mungoman. Have a Merry Christmas. It's raining here.

Thank you Iris, I will - and to you and yours too.


It's dry here (rain shadow) and warm - this was through that warm spell a couple of weeks ago.


It's only 30 degrees here at the mo though - very pleasant.

 

[Mungoman]

The sweet potato is a mystery that defies solution at the moment. Somehow sweet potatoes have travelled across the Pacific from America, perhaps on a boat.

Thanks Yorky - bloody interesting mate! The Batata, and the Camote are greatly disjunct...which must indicate obvious connections...The Mexican and the Philipines is obvious with the Spanish Trading that went on but the Batata has me struggling- Antilles and Timor/New Guinea?? Missionaries?

 

[brownmane]

The sweet potato is a mystery that defies solution at the moment. Somehow sweet potatoes have travelled across the Pacific from America, perhaps on a boat.

I'm wondering if you are talking about sweet potato or yam? Here, we often call yams "sweet potatoes", though I do know they are two different plants.

 

[eburacum]

Sorry, I should have posted a link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_potato_cultivation_in_Polynesia
Three different types of sweet potato are involved, but only 'kumara' crossed the ocean in the pre-Spanish era.

 

[Mungoman]

I'm wondering if you are talking about sweet potato or yam? Here, we often call yams "sweet potatoes", though I do know they are two different plants.

We have Yams down under - we have the Jerusalem artichoke, Helianthus, which people call yams, there are the Indigenous yams, one, the water yam is a member of the Dioscorea family, then we have the Murnong, the daisy yam, Microseris family. There are others known as 'Cheeky Yams', due to the necesarry processing involved to reduce the alkaloid content.

But then we have the sweet potatoes, which were originally a fibrous white one which we ate when I was a young'n, and then the Kumara which I was introduced to in the seventies.

I wouldn't have a clue about the American Yams, so I plead ignorance...or the Fifth - whichever covers it.

 

[Kondoru]

People did get around a lot.

I remember reading Japanese culture has both a Polynesian and Siberian element.

 

[Mungoman]

Sorry, I should have posted a link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_potato_cultivation_in_Polynesia
Three different types of sweet potato are involved, but only 'kumara' crossed the ocean in the pre-Spanish era.

A very interesting read Eburacum - Thank you mate.

 

[brownmane]

We have Yams down under - we have the Jerusalem artichoke, Helianthus, which people call yams, there are the Indigenous yams, one, the water yam is a member of the Dioscorea family, then we have the Murnong, the daisy yam, Microseris family. There are others known as 'Cheeky Yams', due to the necesarry processing involved to reduce the alkaloid content.

But then we have the sweet potatoes, which were originally a fibrous white one which we ate when I was a young'n, and then the Kumara which I was introduced to in the seventies.

I wouldn't have a clue about the American Yams, so I plead ignorance...or the Fifth - whichever covers it.

I have no idea what type of yams ours are. We can grow them ie they are not necessarily imported.

The sweet potatoes are not as common in grocery stores, but you can sometimes find them. I have no idea if they can be grown here.

I enjoy yams. They are sweet.

 

[brownmane]

I have no idea what type of yams ours are. We can grow them ie they are not necessarily imported.

The sweet potatoes are not as common in grocery stores, but you can sometimes find them. I have no idea if they can be grown here.

I enjoy yams. They are sweet.

Reply to my comment. Perhaps our yams are sweet potatoes and I mixed them up. Though the comment from wiki shows the confusion we have in NA:

Although darker sweet potatoes are often referred to as "yams" in parts of North America, the species is not a true yam, which are monocots in the order Dioscoreales.

Now I am really confused.

 

[Mungoman]

People did get around a lot.

I remember reading Japanese culture has both a Polynesian and Siberian element.

I was having a chat with a Thai fella in a bar in Thailand, and we got onto origins of people, and this Fella (he called himself Chicken), told me that the true origins of the Thai people were polynesian/Maori...Seeing as how you point out the influence of Polynesian traits(?) in Japanese culture Kondoru, it makes sense of what Chicken was talking about.

 

[Iris]

sweet potato

 

[Iris]

yam

 

[brownmane]

View attachment 72480sweet potato

Yep ^this^ Yum yum yum.

 

[brownmane]

View attachment 72481yam

I can now say that I have never had a yam.

 

[Frideswide]

I;m with you in bewildered learning @brownmane

 

[eburacum]

this Fella (he called himself Chicken), told me that the true origins of the Thai people were polynesian/Maori

It's probably the other way around. The Polynesians emerged from South East Asia (including Thailand) and the Philippines in about 2500 BCE, and spread across New Guinea and the Pacific Islands very gradually for the next three and a half thousand years. The last place they reached was Aotearoa, (New Zealand), in about 1200 AD, four centuries before Tasman got there.

So the Maori came from Thailand (among other places), by a very long route.

 

[Mungoman]

It's probably the other way around. The Polynesians emerged from South East Asia (including Thailand) and the Philippines in about 2500 BCE, and spread across New Guinea and the Pacific Islands very gradually for the next three and a half thousand years. The last place they reached was Aotearoa, (New Zealand), in about 1200 AD, four centuries before Tasman got there.

So the Maori came from Thailand (among other places), by a very long route.

I'd had a few Singha's Eburacum..and some local product...and it was a little late - maybe that is what Chicken meant, OR I heard incorrectly. Either way - looking at the 'flow chart', what you're saying makes sense. My Cuzzy Bros though, in Browns Bay, are going to disagree with me vehemently.

I think I'll keep Shtum.

 

[ramonmercado]

Really ancient Argentinian cave art.

Near the southernmost tip of South America, people may have started cave painting nearly 8,200 years ago, several millennia earlier than previously suggested by ancient rock art in that area.

Dating of comblike depictions in a cave in Argentina indicates that these designs belonged to a rock art tradition that lasted more than 3,000 years, ending around 5,100 years ago, researchers report February 14 in Science Advances. Ancient South Americans painted a variety of designs on the cave’s internal wall and part of its ceiling over roughly 130 generations, probably to preserve cultural knowledge shared by regional hunter-gatherer groups, archaeologist Guadalupe Romero Villanueva and colleagues say.

Prior studies suggested that extremely dry conditions kept South America sparsely populated during this period. Small, dispersed groups would have needed a central spot to preserve visually their ecological and ritual know-how, the investigators say.

Paint pigments used in the Argentinian cave designs provided the oldest direct dates for rock art in the Americas, Romero Villanueva says. For comparison, indirect measures of mineral growths that formed over and underneath an Indonesian cave depiction suggest it’s the oldest known rock art anywhere, dating to at least 45,500 years ago (SN: 1/13/21). ...

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/south-american-patagonia-cave-paintings-surprisingly-old

 

[ramonmercado]

Rock Art from the Green Sahara Era.


The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new research has found rock art over 4,000 years old that depicts cattle.

In 2018 and 2019, I led a team of archaeologists on the Atbai Survey Project. We discovered 16 new rock art sites east of the Sudanese city of Wadi Halfa, in one of the most desolate parts of the Sahara. This area receives almost no yearly rainfall.

Almost all of these rock art sites had one feature in common: the depiction of cattle, either as a lone cow or part of a larger herd.

On face value, this is a puzzling creature to find carved on desert rock walls. Cattle need plenty of water and acres of pasture, and would quickly perish today in such a sand-choked environment.

In modern Sudan, cattle only occur about 600 kilometers to the south, where the northernmost latitudes of the African monsoon create ephemeral summer grasslands suitable for cattle herding.

The theme of cattle in ancient rock art is one of most important pieces of evidence establishing a bygone age of the "green Sahara."

Archaeological and climatic fieldwork across the entire Sahara, from Morocco to Sudan and everywhere in between, has illustrated a comprehensive picture of a region that used to be much wetter.

Climate scientists, archaeologists and geologists call this the "African humid period". It was a time of increased summer monsoon rainfall across the continent, which began about 15,000 years ago and ended roughly 5,000 years ago.

This "green Sahara" is a vital period in human history. In North Africa, this was when agriculture began and livestock were domesticated. ...

https://phys.org/news/2024-04-art-discoveries-eastern-sudan-tale.html

 

[Mungoman]

View attachment 72481yam

Is this one a bit fibrous Iris - if it is, then this is what we ate in Australia, as a kid - we called this fella a sweet potato, and the method of presentation was always roasted (in our 'ouse).

 

[Iris]

Is this one a bit fibrous Iris - if it is, then this is what we ate in Australia, as a kid - we called this fella a sweet potato, and the method of presentation was always roasted (in our 'ouse).

I haven't eaten yams but do eat the sweet potatoes which have a yellow flesh, which I prefer to pumpkin.

 

[Fabio Picasso]

Really ancient Argentinian cave art.

Near the southernmost tip of South America, people may have started cave painting nearly 8,200 years ago, several millennia earlier than previously suggested by ancient rock art in that area.

Dating of comblike depictions in a cave in Argentina indicates that these designs belonged to a rock art tradition that lasted more than 3,000 years, ending around 5,100 years ago, researchers report February 14 in Science Advances. Ancient South Americans painted a variety of designs on the cave’s internal wall and part of its ceiling over roughly 130 generations, probably to preserve cultural knowledge shared by regional hunter-gatherer groups, archaeologist Guadalupe Romero Villanueva and colleagues say.

Prior studies suggested that extremely dry conditions kept South America sparsely populated during this period. Small, dispersed groups would have needed a central spot to preserve visually their ecological and ritual know-how, the investigators say.

Paint pigments used in the Argentinian cave designs provided the oldest direct dates for rock art in the Americas, Romero Villanueva says. For comparison, indirect measures of mineral growths that formed over and underneath an Indonesian cave depiction suggest it’s the oldest known rock art anywhere, dating to at least 45,500 years ago (SN: 1/13/21). ...

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/south-american-patagonia-cave-paintings-surprisingly-old

Very interesting news, but I would like to let you know that in my country Argentina, where that cave is located, the antiquity has been established between 13,000 and 9,500 years BC.
This is part of the document with which the rock art site was registered with UNESCO as a world heritage site in 1999.
Prepared by the Argentine National Commission for Cooperation with UNESCO and endorsed by the National Institute of Anthropology and Latin American Thought.

Cave of the Hands, Río Pinturas
Cueva de las Manos, Río Pinturas, is an archaeological site with rock art located on the walls of the extraordinary canyon of the Pinturas River, in the northwest of the province of Santa Cruz. The site includes a cave and several eaves decorated with magnificent pictographs and is surrounded by exceptional natural habitat.

It is estimated that the manifestations of rock art date from the years 13,000 and 9,500 BC. The cave gets its name from the handprints stamped on its walls using a technique similar to stencil printing. In addition to these figures, the cave has numerous representations of still living species of the local fauna, and more specifically of guanacos (lama guanicoe). Cueva de las Manos, Río Pinturas houses some of the oldest representations corresponding to the first groups of hunter-gatherers that inhabited the current Argentine territory. It is considered one of the most important rock art sites in Patagonia and one of the few sites with the presence of rock paintings corresponding to the early Holocene in good condition in Argentine Patagonia. The pictorial sequence is supported chronologically by the results of the archaeological excavations carried out by Carlos J. Gradin and team. Likewise, the international scientific community considers the Cueva de las Manos as one of the most relevant sites related to the first hunter-gatherers of South America.
The hunters who lived in the area left extraordinary hunting scenes painted on the rock surfaces, in which you can see human and animal figures that interact in a dynamic and realistic way. Different hunting strategies appear before our eyes: the animals (guanacos) are cornered or trapped in an ambush or pursued by hunters, who use their throwing weapons (the "balls"). Some of these animal chase scenes show a single hunter, while others are represented by circles of 10, 12 or more men surrounding a group of 20 guanacos. They are of great relevance for representing a unique testimony of the behavior of the first Patagonian hunters and for constituting a contribution to the knowledge of the hunting techniques used by the inhabitants of our Patagonian territory.

Likewise, there is a great profusion of hand-held negatives (more than 2,000 have been counted) that have lasted throughout the entire occupation of the site. Although this type of artistic manifestation is universal in nature, Cueva de las Manos is one of the few rock art sites with such a high number of hand negatives.

Thus, Cueva de las Manos, Río Pinturas was inscribed on the World Heritage List because it meets cultural criterion III, associated with archaeological sites:
Cueva de las Manos, Río Pinturas, contiene una colección sobresaliente de arte rupestre que representa el testimonio de una de las culturas más antiguas de Suramérica. Se trata de un sitio que contiene un conjunto pictórico único en el mundo por su antigüedad y continuidad a través del tiempo, la belleza y estado de conservación de las pinturas, la magnificencia de los conjuntos de negativos de manos y de escenas de caza, y por el bello escenario que lo rodea y que forma parte de su valor cultural.

El hábitat que circunda el sitio arqueológico se conserva intacto y alberga las mismas especies zoológicas representadas hace aproximadamente 10.000 años en el arte rupestre. Esto también ocurre con las especies vegetales. Se trata de un ambiente particular, único y atípico tanto a nivel provincial como regional, que posee un gran valor para la conservación de los sistemas naturales de la Argentina. Lo mismo se puede decir del arte rupestre, que, pese al inevitable pero muy lento deterioro natural que ha sufrido durante diez milenios y a algún daño ocasionado por la acción humana, posee un asombroso estado de conservación.

For those interested, I have a series of articles published by the archaeologist Carlos Joaquín Gradin (Buenos Aires, May 20, 1918 – ib., March 31, 2002), also known as Carlos or Charles Gradín, was an Argentine surveyor and archaeologist. He carried out numerous studies in the Patagonian region, and is especially known for his extensive studies in the Cueva de las Manos of the Pinturas River and on Patagonian rock art.​

 

[Fabio Picasso]

Vikings and Rock Art in Paraguay
Abstract:

In 1988 the first registers for Rock Art in Paraguay were initíated. Suprísingly, the greatest problem researchers had to overcome, were not in regards to the customary analysis of styles, but rather the firm beliefby the society at large that their main task consisted of deciphering the "scripts at hand. Mario Consens Centro de Investigación de Arte Rupestre del Uruguay
For many decades, individuals of great illusionary capabilitíes gave their time and energy to locate "writings" at different sites in Paraguay, explaining that the alleged texts were created in the past by visiting Celts, Vikings, Semites, and even Chinese. Misconsepts of this kind were printed in books, articles, and even in official
textbooks for schools. It should be noted that su ch disparate hypothesis circulated in a country with seventeen different ethnic groups of different origins and where 95% of its inhabitants speak an aboriginal language (Guaraní).

Source : Consens, Mario 2002 “Vikings and Rock Art in Paraguay: Ethno-Anthropological Discrepancies”. in “1999 International Rock Art Congress Proceedings”, eds. P.J. Whitehead, W. H. Whitehead, L. L. Loendorf y W.B. Murray, Vol. 2, págs. 209-214. American Rock Art Research Association. Tucson​

 

[Fabio Picasso]

Viking Presence in Paraguayan Territory
Vikings in America
According to oral tradition and some archaeological remains, the Vikings formed a society dominated by the military caste, headed by the king; They developed weapons and navigation techniques and these allowed them to quickly expand their conquests and create an extensive commercial network. The Vikings, despite being considered a pirate people, exerted a great cultural and artistic influence throughout Europe. This was from the 8th to the 11th century. Among the archaeological remains, the geometric military constructions stand out, framed in rectangular forts; rune stones, first supports for writing; or the burial ships that contained the burial chamber and important treasures.

The Vikings probably reached the northeastern coasts of America around the year 1000. We emphasize “probably” because for many scholars it is certain that they were in a large part of our continent.

Runic inscription in Kaerstad, Norway.

In Paraguay
Professor Vicente Pistilli, well-known defender of the theory of the Viking presence in Paraguay, tells us about the traces of the runes - the Viking writing - engraved on the Guazú hill, department of Amambay. And also biological traces. “The virtually extinct Guayakí tribe - he tells us - descends from a human group of long-line biotype race. We have scientifically proven it. The Guayakí are white, slightly mixed with Amerindian women in a relatively recent period.
Guayakí men have light skin, a thick beard, their hair thins on the crown of their heads and the microscope reveals that it is hair typical of the white race.”

Runic inscription on Guazú Hill in Amambay, Paraguay.

The connection that Professor Pistilli finds between the Guayakí and the Vikings also refers to the armor, the code, the message of the myth. In both mythologies, the first human couple is created with plant and mineral elements.
The Guarani and Scandinavian evil spirits marry daughters of the first couple and give birth to monsters. In both mythologies a universal catastrophe is recorded. “The Guayakí,” adds Professor Pistilli, “are linked to an Aryan-type population, whose presence in the highlands, centuries before the Discovery, was proven by no less than three hundred blonde mummies found in Paracas and other places in Peru. We believe that the Incas were Vikings.”
Towards the end of the sixties of the last century, the geologist of the Ministry of Public Works Pedro González found in the department of Amambay one hundred and fifty-seven caves with the walls covered with runic inscriptions.
In the following decade, Professor Jaime M. de Mahieu, from the National University of Buenos Aires and author, among other books, of The Viking King of Paraguay (1979), studied together with the German runologist Herman Munk, sixty-one of those inscriptions in question.
The conclusions reached by the named professors are that some of the inscriptions are runes of classical design and others reveal a long process of graphic degeneration. Professor Munk was also able to recognize a medieval dialect spoken in Schleswig (Germany).
“In any case,” says Professor Pistilli, “the traces of the Vikings are present in the Paraguayan heritage as in their native language, Guaraní.”

By Alcibíades González Delvalle
Source: ABC Newspaper (Asuncion, Paraguay) , March 4, 2007​

 

[Fabio Picasso]

Huellas Nórdicas en Sudamérica
Nordic Traces in South America

The prehistoric runic inscriptions that extend in inhospitable places on this land hide traces of foreign visitors who have left traces in native blood, in the American past. The Paraguayan researcher Vicente Pistilli, professor of archeology at the National University of Asunción, is one of the defenders of the presence of Europeans on the American continent years before the arrival of Columbus.

Professor Vicente Pistilli.

The archaeological finds made a few years ago in the areas of Amambay and Villarrica are mostly rock inscriptions. Some experts identified them as runic, because they were related to the characters used in the writing of the ancient Scandinavians.

As a result of this discovery, tireless research was carried out to this day by several national and foreign scientists, such as those revealed in 1970 by the Paraguayan geologist Pedro González and in 1972 by the French scientist Jacques de Mahieu.

History also tells that in 1898, the wise Honoré was already talking about the strange graffiti. However, the skepticism of others is a cold barrier that hinders the course of the investigations, as well as the doubt whether it was Scandinavians or Nordics who arrived on South American land.

In other pages of history, other scholars spoke about a great Empire in Upper Peru (Bolivia) in the 12th century, and about daring Phoenician, Etruscan and Carthaginian voyages, at least 1000 years before Christ. Furthermore, Columbus had been the last to find out that the earth was round. Therefore, the question is this: Who were the true authors of the inscriptions on the hills of Amambay and Villarrica?

Vikings in Paraguay?
In this country, according to the research of archeology professor Vicente Pistilli, the Vikings possibly settled in Paraguay in the 14th century. He also believes that they may have been Phoenicians, Chinese, Aramaic or Etruscans, nations of traders and intrepid navigators, the professor points out. . On the other hand, it is not possible to affirm who recorded the questioned petroglyphs of the Mbaracayú, Morotí, Polilla, Ybyturuzú, Ypir, Gasory and Lorito hills.

Pistilli assures that Paraguayan history begins with the arrival of the supposed Vikings in the year 1400 AD, it continues with the arrival of Alejo García in 1521; Sebastián Gaboto in 1524 and the subsequent founding of Asunción by Juan de Salazar y Espinoza. The Institute of the Science of Man of Buenos Aires published the chronicles of Pistilli's research that he has carried out since 1975. In the files, the archeology professor says that some scientists agree that Christopher Columbus was the last to discover America, as well how they contradict the theory because they assure that documents are preserved in Portugal that testify that the Pinzón brothers were in America before accompanying Admiral Columbus.

Pistilli maintains that the inscriptions found are runic in nature, the writing of the expeditionaries of a great pre-Inca Viking empire located in Tiahuanaco, Upper Peru. Those scriptures are based on an alphabetical system that dates back to the 3rd century AD. It consists of twenty-four angular signs, without curves, probably because they were engraved in wood and stone. It is also speculated that the fusion of the Greek and Latin alphabets into a new one was a product of the Teutons. According to Pistilli, most of these inscriptions were also found in Scandinavian countries such as Great Britain, Germany, the United States, Greece. Additionally, in Mexico and Paraguay, he indicates.

Pistilli has been researching this problem for four decades and orients his thesis along the same path that the sociologist and anthropologist Jacques de Mahieu took.

Profile of an archaeologist
For some, the theory of the Vikings is far-fetched, for others it is a possibility, as well as for one of the pioneers of the investigations into supposed findings of Viking signs that are part of various information compilations in the international and national press, Professor Vicente Pistilli.

He is a man who has dedicated his time and space for more than four decades to archaeological and anthropological research into Paraguayan history, with documents and philology being the fundamental basis of his research.

The life of the civil engineer, mathematician, malaria and health specialist, philosopher, theologian and archaeologist, Don Vicente Pistilli, transcends into hidden places that denote importance in the educational, cultural, scientific and artistic field, such as his performance in mathematical disciplines, analytical geometry, infinitesimal calculus. , differential equations and special laboratories; subjects that connected him with philosophy, logic and of course, archeology and hermeneutics (the art of interpreting the texts of sacred books), being a teacher of many apprentices at the National University of Asunción. All his studies gave rise to the development of his famous theory that has been questioned by skeptics and believers, the visit and existence of the Vikings (Vikin) in South American land, or Paraguayan land, a theory that has left people dumbfounded. to many other scientists and scholars of the subject.

The runes
The antiquity of the petroglyphs in Paraguay has reference to the time of Dr. Francia, to whom they presented some inscriptions copied from the Jarigua'á stones in Carapeguá. Dr. Francia showed his discovery to two priests and they told him that they were neither Latin nor Greek - a language they knew - but they were scriptures. Later, around 1940, the engineer Berto Myer, a Paraguayan of French origin, blew up the stones with explosives, thinking that there were treasures behind the inscriptions. “It is a mistake that almost all treasure hunters make; These inscriptions do not indicate that there are treasures, nor much more, nor much less,” Pistilli rebukes, also ensuring that there are documents regarding this reference from the French period.

Approximately in 1920, Robustiano Vera, a Paraguayan archaeologist, supposedly found other stones with inscriptions that could be runes since arrows and mummies were also found, but the archaeologist never mentioned where the discovery was made; Instead, it is believed that it was in San Joaquín, towards the eastern region of the country, Pistilli assumes.

Runes in Amambay.
Another scientific work was carried out by a German archaeologist and runologist, Germán Munk, who translated the first inscriptions accompanied by a Frenchman, the aforementioned Jacques de Mahieu, a sociologist and archaeologist who studied America in depth and the influence of possible pre-Columbian white visitors in this continent.

Pistilli spoke of one of the many verifications carried out by him since 1965, which appeared in the newspaper La Tribuna in the article Vikingos en el Paraguay, where the runic and ogamic alphabets are noted. In his own words, “many want to see the Ogamic as if it were Celtic, but really the two alphabets and others were known by the Bikini. They are the ones who came and brought some who understood these scriptures. In Ireland, until the 17th century, both ogamics and runes were used, then the Latin ones were used; inscriptions on stones with Christian symbols and a bikini,” the professor explains and defends with some credibility.

Pistilli assures that the bikini inscriptions found in national territory reach Hispano-Mexico, in the Yucatan peninsula, possibly it is believed that one of them is the famous Quetzalcóalt - the Feathered Serpent -, without claiming that the Vikings are responsible for the Aztec cultures. and Mayans, but they influenced by bringing the beam and other objects. “The book that the Mayans used was called Popolvuh. Vuh in ancient Germanic means book and popo means town in Latin, “book of the people”, these are terms that remained firm in that region,” explains Pistilli.

Oghamic inscriptions in Amambay.
Source: Benítez, Ruth Alison - Revista de Arqueología de España. Vol.XXV, Nº275. 2004., pp.56-63


​

 

[Xanatic*]

I must say a phrase such as "the vikings possibly settled in Paraguay in the 14th century. He also believes that they may have been Phoenicians, Chinese, Aramaic or Etruscans" doesn't fill me with confidence. Not overtly similar groups of people.

 

[Fabio Picasso]

Phoenicia

I undoubtedly do not agree with such a mixture of races. Possibly the greatest references to the arrival of Phoenician navigators can be found in Brazil and Argentina. It is a topic that I have researched for years and there is enough evidence. There are several books that refer to these links whose authors are Emile and Duncan Wagner, Bernardo Gravier, Bernando de Azevedo da Silva Ramos and others.
Apparently the Nordics would have arrived descending from North America towards the South, establishing themselves at a latitude equivalent to Bolivia and Paraguay, while the Phoenicians would have arrived from the Atlantic coasts of Brazil and ascending the Rio de la Plata, Argentina, occupying areas more close to the sea and navigable rivers.
With respect to the Nordics, there is a theory that is still being studied that would link their settlement in the central mountains of Cordoba, where they would have coexisted with the Comechingones natives. Controversial topic but of which there are some references that I have investigated in the field.

 

[Fabio Picasso]

The covers of the above mentioned books