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Charles Manson

Floyd1 said:
@Lord Lucan @Ronnie Jersey

Do you have any views on the theory that Patricia Krenwinkel (also known as Patricia Montgomery) knew Garretson and maybe even visited him at the guesthouse? Apparently she went there along with Garretson's other friend, a vietnam vet called Darrel and a woman Debbie T.

This is why she told Tex there was no one in the guesthouse when he told her to go and check- so as to protect Garretson. Also on the police polygraph examination he is very cagey when talking about Krenwinkel.
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I suspect they may have known each other. It does seem odd that Garretson was left alive (and also his claim of hearing nothing of the murders). For as thorough as they were in the killing of their victims, you would think that they would be sure to leave no one alive who could testify against them.
Garretson has always been a puzzling aspect in an even larger puzzle.
 
Floyd1 said:
@Lord Lucan @Ronnie Jersey

Do you have any views on the theory that Patricia Krenwinkel (also known as Patricia Montgomery) knew Garretson and maybe even visited him at the guesthouse? Apparently she went there along with Garretson's other friend, a vietnam vet called Darrel and a woman Debbie T.

This is why she told Tex there was no one in the guesthouse when he told her to go and check- so as to protect Garretson. Also on the police polygraph examination he is very cagey when talking about Krenwinkel.
Click to expand...
William Garretson is just another part of this strange story, some 'caretaker' -

"The night of the murders, Garretson said he was in a guesthouse located on the Tate-Polanski property. He recalls a lot of "strange things" going on that night.
At one point, he said he saw people run past the guesthouse and heard someone rattle the doorknob before they were scared away by a barking dog.
But Garretson said he learned nothing of the murders until the following day when police officers showed up at the clubhouse."

https://www.lancastereaglegazette.c...-details-gory-manson-killing-spree/882395001/

And he wasn't curious about someone 'rattling his doorknob' and seeing people run past the guesthouse? Although, he may have been drunk or high on something, to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I think he is a suspicious character, if someone was running around my house and my dogs were barking, I would be investigating that.
Particularly if my dogs were barking all night, anyone with animals knows how they alert us to trouble.

He may have known Krenwinkel, but if she was crazy enough to stab those others the way she did, would another murder really matter to her?
 
Lord Lucan said:
I suspect they may have known each other. It does seem odd that Garretson was left alive (and also his claim of hearing nothing of the murders). For as thorough as they were in the killing of their victims, you would think that they would be sure to leave no one alive who could testify against them.
Garretson has always been a puzzling aspect in an even larger puzzle.
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They may not have wanted to deal with dogs, for all they knew these could have been attack dogs, or something similar, that they heard barking in Garretson's house.
If they did 'rattle Garretson's doorknob' they would have heard the dogs, and if no one came to the door, they thought no one was home?
Garretson always appeared to be 'guilty' of something.
 
William Garretson changed his story many times:

The Teen Who Escaped Helter Skelter​

the mystery of the caretaker at Cielo Drive

“I did hear a scream. I walked down the hall and into the closet. It had a window facing the pool area and there was a curtain over the window. All the windows in the house were closed that night and the doors were locked. I had lights on everywhere. The whole house was lit up… Then I walked down toward the living room because the three dogs were at the front door barking loudly. I stopped at the bathroom door… I heard footsteps running the other way. Something impressed me again not to move. They could not see me because I was in the hall and there was no window right there. When I saw the front door, I saw the handle… it was turned.” — William Garretson quoted in Sharon Tate and the Manson Murders by Greg King ©2000 Barricade Books

The person who turned the handle was Katie, sent to investigate the cottage. Patricia Krenwinkel, or Patty Montgomery?

And in a 1999 interview on E! (Entertainment Television), Garretson admitted that he heard the sound of gunshots and he heard Abigail scream, ‘Stop! I’m already dead…’ He also told them that he saw Patricia try to open the door to the cottage and then turn around and run away.

Even more explosive, he claimed in that 1999 interview that when he hitchhiked down to Sunset Boulevard earlier to get dinner, the man he rode with warned him not to go back to the property! Garretson rode back with a group of female hippies who took him all the way home despite that warning. He tried to get the women to drop him off at other stops along the way, he said, but they insisted on driving him home.

Who was the man who warned Garretson not to go back to Cielo?

Who were the hippies who gave Bill a ride back?

Why did the women Garretson hitched a ride back with, insist on taking him home when he repeatedly asked them to let him out sooner?

https://themansonfamily-mtts.medium.com/the-teen-who-escaped-helter-skelter-4598a7382d3d
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
He may have known Krenwinkel, but if she was crazy enough to stab those others the way she did, would another murder really matter to her?
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(Possibly) because to her, Tate and the others were the 'pigs' whereas Garretson was 'just' the caretaker?
 
Youtube has a whole series on Charles Manson and the entire Family, a real in-depth look at what happened.
So far I see it goes on for dozens of episodes, I've been slowly watching when I have time, but this is something for those with interest.
It starts with Manson being an unwanted child with no father, and a criminal mother, a real tragedy in the making:

 
Ronnie Jersey said:
Youtube has a whole series on Charles Manson and the entire Family, a real in-depth look at what happened.
So far I see it goes on for dozens of episodes, I've been slowly watching when I have time, but this is something for those with interest.
It starts with Manson being an unwanted child with no father, and a criminal mother, a real tragedy in the making:

Click to expand...

The producer of this video series (H. Allegra Lansing) has also put out a most excellent book called 'The Manson Family - More To The Story' which I highly recommend if you've not read it.
Not only does it give a pretty complete telling of the Manson saga, but unlike most books on the subject, it devotes the final chapter/s on giving updates on the current whereabouts of the surviving people who were involved in the saga and tells of the demise of those no longer with us. Interesting stuff.
 
One has to wonder if Susan Atkins had not opened her mouth and bragged to her cellmate about the murders, what else Manson and his Family might have gotten up to. Police apparently had no ideas and no leads at the time.
Atkins must have been quite damaged mentally.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
One has to wonder if Susan Atkins had not opened her mouth and bragged to her cellmate about the murders, what else Manson and his Family might have gotten up to. Police apparently had no ideas and no leads at the time.
Atkins must have been quite damaged mentally.
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Here's an interview with Virginia Graham (Atkin's cell mate). It goes for a while, but if you have the time and an interest in the case, it's absolutely worth the time:

 
Lord Lucan said:
Here's an interview with Virginia Graham (Atkin's cell mate). It goes for a while, but if you have the time and an interest in the case, it's absolutely worth the time:

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Wow, what a life Virginia Graham led - knowing Sinatra and people in that circle, she was a very attractive woman. Shows it's not what you know, it's who you know. Surprising what she had to say about Peter Lawford, and I had to laugh at the nickname given to Susan Atkins in jail! LOL
 
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I've just finished watching this, another Manson documentary from a different perspective:

The untold story of Charles Manson’s obsession to become a rock star, his rise in the LA music scene, the celebrities who championed his music including the Beach Boys’ Dennis Wilson and his descent into violence once his dreams fell apart.

The Untold Story Of Charles Manson | Manson: Music from an Unsound Mind​

 
Lord Lucan said:
I've just finished watching this, another Manson documentary from a different perspective:

The untold story of Charles Manson’s obsession to become a rock star, his rise in the LA music scene, the celebrities who championed his music including the Beach Boys’ Dennis Wilson and his descent into violence once his dreams fell apart.

The Untold Story Of Charles Manson | Manson: Music from an Unsound Mind​

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I'm still plowing my way through 'The Manson Family' on youtube, dozens of in-depth episodes on all the members.
This 'Untold Story of Charles Manson' was really fascinating, with all those previously unheard-of men who drifted along with Manson, and could see what was going on and left while they could. Loved the coverage of their time with Dennis Wilson, and it would seem from this documentary that if Manson had stuck with the music career, he might have eventually succeeded! Apparently he was a great songwriter, a skill that is always popular.
He just didn't know how to handle himself.
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
I'm still plowing my way through 'The Manson Family' on youtube, dozens of in-depth episodes on all the members.
This 'Untold Story of Charles Manson' was really fascinating, with all those previously unheard-of men who drifted along with Manson, and could see what was going on and left while they could. Loved the coverage of their time with Dennis Wilson, and it would seem from this documentary that if Manson had stuck with the music career, he might have eventually succeeded! Apparently he was a great songwriter, a skill that is always popular.
He just didn't know how to handle himself.
Click to expand...
I've not seen this one before; Not verified, but it's apparently Manson at Wilson's house (14400 Sunset Blvd).
cm.jpg
 
Ronnie Jersey said:
Such an interesting life Aesop had, and very perceptive of him to see through Bruce Davis and Manson, he said they 'were con men who grew beards, they were not hippies'.
Possibly the most insightful description of Manson yet.
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Manson himself always said that he wasn't a hippy. He said he was a 'riff'. I'm not sure if this was American 1950s/60s slang for 'riff-raff' maybe- or perhaps more akin to a 'beatnik'?
 
And from Lord Lucan's 'The Untold Story Of Charles Manson', the video told how Manson was musically inclined from an extremely young age, so that was his talent and calling.
 
Another short Youtube documentary titled 'Charles Manson's Ranch'. It has a few glaring mistakes, but is reasonably well put together with lots of interesting imagery. Also shows Spahn Ranch as it looks today.

 
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