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Places That Attract Suicides

Coastaljames said:
The Bridgend thing always puzzles me.
The way it was written off as something that although appearing to be an obvious "thing" actually to be not at all. That none of the suicides were connected (altho many clearly were) and, under statistical analysis, there was no apparent significance. That never sat well with me.
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FYI for readers unfamiliar with the story:

Bridgend Suicides: A Theory
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/bridgend-suicides-a-theory.32201/
 
Today for the second time in the last few years I came across someone that had
climbed the railings and was sitting on the very narrow ledge of the Shard Bridge,
threatening to jump.

I did not stop this time as another car had and the wife said I was better not as I
have the compassion of Attila The Hun.

It's a bit strange really as apart from the old bridge swaying a bit in high tides
and wind I never saw anything of note and I drove over that for years,
Now we have a new modern and much wider bridge I have seen these 2 and
quite a few accidents on the new bridge.
 
I have no ideas about the people waiting to jump (except compassion) but the accidents... could it be that the newness and overt safety of the new bridge is making people careless?

I'd love to see figures after a few years.

Also, Atilla the Hun :rollingw: There have been occasions when I was the best choice to do something like this, partly because of a willingness to act. I must remember this.

" Please, I'd like to talk? we can sit here quietly and I can remember messages or whatever. My name is Frideswide but just think of me as your personal Atilla The Hun."
 
After another suicide at The Vessel in New York the attraction has been closed. This article describes the owners' efforts to figure out what more they can do to avert suicides, and it reviews what other suicide sites have done and are doing to prevent suicide attempts.
After latest suicide, the Vessel in New York City's Hudson Yards ponders its future

In a December 2016 article for The Architect's Newspaper, journalist Audrey Wachs noted a glaring issue with the Vessel, the 150-foot-tall tourist attraction that was set to open in New York City's gleaming new Hudson Yards neighborhood.

"As one climbs up Vessel, the railings stay just above waist height all the way up to the structure's top," she wrote, "but when you build high, folks will jump."

That warning has proved tragically prescient. Last week, a 14-year-old died by suicide at the climbable structure -- the fourth such fatal incident since the landmark opened to the public in March 2019.

Hudson Yards spokesperson Kimberly Winston said in a statement ... "We are conducting a full investigation. The Vessel is currently closed."

It's the second time the Vessel has closed due to suicides. In January, after the third death, the Vessel closed for several months and reopened in May with new safety measures in place, including increased security, a buddy system and signs about mental health resources.

Now, the Vessel's future as the Instagrammable centerpiece of the largest development in Manhattan since Rockefeller Center is in limbo. Can it be saved? ...
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FULL STORY: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/07/us/vessel-hudson-yards-suicide-wellness/index.html
 
The military has explained that this year 15 soldiers stationed in Alaska who committed suicide was because of the cold and the isolation of the military bases.

There are military suicides yearly, but not at this frequency.

Senator Hillibrand who is on the Congress Intelligence committee and is hunted down the facts about UFOs has now starting to inquire into the strangeness of the Alaska military suicides.
 
It has been rumored that at Fort Wainwright, Fairbanks, Alaska that the endless summer days, and the endless winter nights has driven the servicemen to drink excessively on their off duty.

Just as a side thought, what happens if one is traveling the months to go to Mars ?
 
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Well the bridge I mentioned in the earlier post as been shut today,
due to a suicide, don't know if it's one of the ones I have seen in the
passed threatening but it seems this one was successful.
:omr:
 
Anyone mentioned Scandinavia yet?

There seems to be something of an incongruity in polls often rating Danes, Finns (OK borderline Scandinavia), Swedes, Norwegians and Icelanders as amongst the happiest people on Earth, and yet their suicide rates appear to be significantly above the European norm.
In Finland an astonishing third of all deaths in this BBC report were suicides.
Furthermore, migrants coming to Scandinavia in search of a better life seem to catch the Nordic gloom bug too, with almost half of those surveyed admitting to suicidal thoughts.
I joined a discussion over at The Guardian recently, in which they were banging the same old drum about how dreadful England is compared with the wonderful Denmark ("happiest people on Earth") but, when I pointed out their suicide rate was higher than England's my post was rapidly censored!

So what could explain this? My experience of Scandinavia for holidays has been invariably great but, were I to live there, could that Nordic gloom infect even my normally jocular character?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45308016

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/IJMHSC-05-2020-0052/full/html
 
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blessmycottonsocks said:
So what could explain this? My experience of Scandinavia for holidays has been invariably great but, were I to live there, could that Nordic gloom infect even my normally jocular character?
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I don’t know; these countries are beautiful but Iceland, Finland, Norway and Sweden do have long and cold winters. I can’t stand winter; the short days, the cold, the snow if there is any. Even hygge would not help with that. Warmth and light and long days definitely make me more cheerful.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Anyone mentioned Scandinavia yet?

There seems to be something of an a incongruity in polls often rating Danes, Finns (OK borderline Scandinavia), Swedes, Norwegians and Icelanders as amongst the happiest people on Earth, and yet their suicide rates appear to be significantly above the European norm.
In Finland an astonishing third of all deaths in this BBC report were suicides.
Furthermore, migrants coming to Scandinavia in search of a better life seem to catch the Nordic gloom bug too, with almost half of those surveyed admitting to suicidal thoughts.
I joined a discussion over at The Guardian recently, in which they were banging the same old drum about how dreadful England is compared with the wonderful Denmark ("happiest people on Earth") but, when I pointed out their suicide rate was higher than England's my post was rapidly censored!

So what could explain this? My experience of Scandinavia for holidays has been invariably great but, were I to live there, could that Nordic gloom infect even my normally jocular character?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45308016

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/IJMHSC-05-2020-0052/full/html
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I guess it might depend on how close to the Arctic circle those people live, with Norway, Sweden and Finland all stretching up quite far North.
The outlier to this would be Denmark, which is South of those three. Maybe some other factor?
 
Fanari_Lloyd said:
I don’t know; these countries are beautiful but Iceland, Finland, Norway and Sweden do have long and cold winters. I can’t stand winter; the short days, the cold, the snow if there is any. Even hygge would not help with that. Warmth and light and long days definitely make me more cheerful.
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I'm definitely a summer person too and start to feel my spirits sink when the cricket season ends in the autumn.
Having visited Iceland in both summer and winter though I absolutely loved it both times. Even if I were feeling down, a glimpse of those clear skies, with the promise of the Northern Lights putting on a show if you're lucky, would certainly raise my spirits. And I do totally get the hygge thing - our home décor has quite a Scandi feel, with hard floors and (faux) fur rugs.
Makes me wonder if the polls suggesting high levels of Scandinavian contentment were all taken in the summer.
 
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Missed the Beachy Head posts. There is a fantastic (ecumenical, but not 100% sure) team that look out for possible jumpers, and try to talk them out of it. They have the "spidey sense" when they see someone. Very good success rate.Donations always needed to keep the vehicules running. I always keep an eye out when walking there just in case.
Also, some of the local taxi/private hire firms have codewords to their office if they think they have a jumper on board so that they can pass it on, was in the office of one that I was getting details of a job that I was covering when the call came in (ended well). Should think it happens at similar spots.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
... In Finland an astonishing third of all deaths in this BBC report were suicides. ...
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The one-third figure cited for Finland is for a specific subset of the population - those aged 16 - 24 - and not the population as a whole. As the report claims, this teen / young adult tier is the subset of most concern across multiple countries.

As of 2019 ...

Denmark proper has an overall suicide rate (per 100,000 inhabitants) that's on a par with most all of western Europe and the UK.

Greenland (technically a Danish territory) has by far the highest suicide rate of any nation or territory in the world. Denmark's suicide rate figures are therefore nominal or high depending on whether Greenland is included. This situation (inclusion / exclusion) applies to the Faroes as well.

The overall suicide rates for the Nordic countries (including Finland; excluding Denmark proper and Greenland) is on a par with the US, Australia and Canada.

The "high latitude" (very northern) nations with the clearly worst suicide rates are Greenland and Russia.
 
I thought that the suicide and also alcoholism rates in Scandinavian countries had been directly linked to the much longer periods of darkness for a much longer winter period as you get further north. I have spent most of my life well south of the the latitude of London, let alone Scotland, and I'd find the extended darkness and cold even there very unpleasant.
 
EnolaGaia said:
The one-third figure cited for Finland is for a specific subset of the population - those aged 16 - 24 - and not the population as a whole. As the report claims, this teen / young adult tier is the subset of most concern across multiple countries.

As of 2019 ...

Denmark proper has an overall suicide rate (per 100,000 inhabitants) that's on a par with most all of western Europe and the UK.

Greenland (technically a Danish territory) has by far the highest suicide rate of any nation or territory in the world. Denmark's suicide rate figures are therefore nominal or high depending on whether Greenland is included. This situation (inclusion / exclusion) applies to the Faroes as well.

The overall suicide rates for the Nordic countries (including Finland; excluding Denmark proper and Greenland) is on a par with the US, Australia and Canada.

The "high latitude" (very northern) nations with the clearly worst suicide rates are Greenland and Russia.
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I wouldn't class Greenland as being Scandinavian, despite being under Danish control until comparatively recently. Its largely Inuit population has huge issues with grinding poverty.
And AFAIK the Greenlanders don't top any happiness polls, so it was more the dichotomy between apparent happiness and a higher than expected suicide rate that struck me as odd.

According to Wiki rates per 100,000 for Finland (13.4), Iceland (11.2), Sweden (12.4), Norway (11.8) are far higher than the UK (6.9) despite us Brits turning moaning about the weather into something of a national pastime. Scandinavian incomes tend to be pretty high too and they don't have the same degree of overcrowding as the UK, so some other factors must be at play here.
 
Lb8535 said:
I thought that the suicide and also alcoholism rates in Scandinavian countries had been directly linked to the much longer periods of darkness for a much longer winter period as you get further north. I have spent most of my life well south of the the latitude of London, let alone Scotland, and I'd find the extended darkness and cold even there very unpleasant.
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The light / dark has a definite effect, but my experience suggests there's more to it than just sunlight (or lack thereof).

Roughly 3 decades ago I emigrated to Sweden and lived / worked there through 5 consecutive winters. The first 3 were in Stockholm, and the latter 2 were up north in Västerbotten.

My metaphor for the light / dark cycle is riding in an emotional centrifuge moving you in an elliptical, rather than circular, path that causes two points of maximum / extreme centrifugal effect. In the high summer (all light) you are naturally giddy and cheerful, whereas in the depth of winter you can feel the darkness closing in at all times.

A side effect is the hopefulness of spring and a sense of continuous decline or loss in the autumn as the light waxes and wanes between its polar extremes. When I was living there I read an article that pointed out the peak timeframe for Swedish suicides wasn't the depth of winter - it was around the time of the autumnal equinox. This was the time when you could really sense the light slipping away day by day. It's the time when you have to let go of summertime gaiety, batten down the hatches, and get ready for the months-long darkness.

During the dark season you have to counteract the oppressive feeling by staying busy, sticking to a full routine, and engaging in social interactions. Which leads me to a broader issue than the light / dark cycle ...

Swedish culture (at least when I was there ... ) was very "we-centered" - i.e., primarily contextualized with respect to group / peer relationships rather than individual / solo activities. The social welfare state provided for the citizenry quite well, but at the expense of everyone being subject to the prevailing program. This meant that anyone who distanced or separated him- / herself from the mainstream "we" activities could be left in a sort of social vacuum for which one's upbringing had not prepared him / her. It's difficult to develop existential rigor if you'd grown up constantly immersed in a group setting.

I think this sort of social disorientation played a large role in pushing depressed / desperate people toward the edge once they'd diverged from "the program." This is not to say the Swedish sociocultural milieu (as I knew it) was innately regimented or oppressive. It's just that once a person slipped outside the mainstream sphere it made things difficult by comparison with one's upbringing and youth.
 
EnolaGaia said:
... around the time of the autumnal equinox. This was the time when you could really sense the light slipping away day by day. It's the time when you have to let go of summertime gaiety, batten down the hatches, and get ready for the months-long darkness.
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I can certainly emphasise with that, as it more or less coincides with the end of the cricket season here in England. Obviously it's not just playing my favourite sport that I miss (and due to health issues that is something I now have to come to terms with), but swimming in the sea, snorkelling, bodyboarding and just the simple pleasure of living in shorts and beach-clogs and feeling the sun on my skin for the next few months.
So do the pollsters, who invariably place the Scandinavian countries amongst the happiest on Earth only do their questionnaires during the summer or do they omit any questions touching on the apparent Seasonally Affected Disorder (SAD)?
The following article places Finland top of the world, based on an exemplary education system and equal opportunities, but doesn't mention a suicide rate even higher than Sweden's.

https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/the-10-happiest-countries-in-the-world
 
GNC said:
There are few bigger temptations to suicide than access to guns.
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Yet l have owned guns for 50 years, and have never been tempted to roll a seven. Likewise dozens of mates of mine.

Better phrasing might be, “If you are already determined to kill yourself, and happen to get access to a firearm, it could make carrying out your pre-existing plan easier and more irrevocable.”

Mere acquisition of a firearm isn’t accompanied by suicidal ideation.

maximus otter
 
It's the bridges in my neck of the woods that attract suicides. A handful of bridges on the M55 are within a very few minutes walking distance of each other (and in fact they are building yet another bridge for the new junction). Frequently you see flowers tied to the edge of one of the bridges. Sunday night someone jumped, or fell, off the railway bridge at the end of the street, and endless Police and ambulances were on the scene. The air ambulance helicopter van was in attendance but there is nowhere near for the heli to land. Presumably this vehicle transports the injured to a suitable landing spot. Doubt they would have survived:(.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
... So do the pollsters, who invariably place the Scandinavian countries amongst the happiest on Earth only do their questionnaires during the summer or do they omit any questions touching on the apparent Seasonally Affected Disorder (SAD)?
The following article places Finland top of the world, based on an exemplary education system and equal opportunities, but doesn't mention a suicide rate even higher than Sweden's. ...
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I'm not sure there's any obvious contradiction in all this. The suicide rate across the Nordic countries is on the order of 0.014% or lower (2019 figures). There's the other more than 99% of the population to buoy the self-reported level of contentment / "happiness". Those that don't commit suicide have a relatively higher opinion of their locations (lifestyle; opportunities; etc.) than inhabitants of other places.

It's not just the far northern environment. Consider the fact the former Soviet Baltic states have significantly higher suicide rates than the Nordic countries nearby.
 
The figures around suicide rates can be skewed by a society's own culture around the subject, as I've probably already mentioned. In a country where a family might be stigmatised by the suicide of their relation there might be efforts to put the death down to something else such as a drunken accident. So it can be difficult to be sure what's going on.

(On the other hand, deaths from embarrassing causes like accidental asphyxiation during masturbation games might be put down as suicides to protect the feelings of the family.)

Here in the UK the standard of proof required for the registration of deaths as suicide was recently examined and adjusted, with the interesting conclusion that the change did not affect the published suicide rate.

Safe Office for National Statistics link -

Change in the standard of proof used by coroners and the impact on suicide death registrations data in England and Wales

1.Main points​

  • The standard of proof – the level of evidence needed by coroners to conclude whether a death was caused by suicide – was changed from the criminal standard of “ beyond all reasonable doubt”, to the civil standard of “on the balance of probabilities” on 26 July 2018.
  • This legal change has not resulted in any significant change in the reported suicide rate in England and Wales; recently observed increases in suicide among males and females in England, and females in Wales, began before the standard of proof was lowered.
  • Since the change, the proportion of deaths in England and Wales with an underlying cause of intentional-self harm increased, whereas the proportion coded to undetermined intent decreased; this indicates a change in conclusions reached by coroners, but when taken as a whole does not impact our statistics as both of these are included in the suicide rate.
  • Deaths due to accidental drowning and accidental hanging decreased in 2019 when compared with the average in the years 2013 to 2017, however, this has been a gradual trend over time and may not be connected to the legal change.
  • We cannot conclude that the change in the standard of proof is responsible for the recent increase in suicide rates; the factors behind increasing suicide rates are likely to be complex and further monitoring is needed to determine the impact of the legal change compared with other influences.
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EnolaGaia said:
It's not just the far northern environment. Consider the fact the former Soviet Baltic states have significantly higher suicide rates than the Nordic countries nearby.
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Noted, but there are obviously other geopolitical issues at work there.
If you travel more south-west, the suicide rates (pp100k) tend to drop - France 9.7, Netherlands 9.3, Italy 4.3, Spain 5.3, UK 6.9, Portugal 7.2, Malta 5.3 etc. So, I'm willing to conclude that climate is a significant factor here. One outlier is Belgium 13.9. Culturally and ethnically they are pretty close to the Dutch, so why the high rate? Possibly because Belgium has one of the world's most liberal laws on assisted suicide (and not just for the terminally ill).

An interesting article here about how certain winds such as the Sirocco and Mistral can adversely affect mental health. Voltaire claimed that people killed themselves when a wind was blowing from the east and there are English sayings about "ill winds" and "When the wind is in the east, ’tis good for neither man nor beast."

https://lithub.com/a-brief-eerie-history-of-how-the-wind-makes-us-crazy/
 
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EnolaGaia said:
This was the time when you could really sense the light slipping away day by day. It's the time when you have to let go of summertime gaiety, batten down the hatches, and get ready for the months-long darkness.
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My sister always says that September is the time she begins to feel depressed, with me it’s end of October. Up to Halloween it’s not too bad — autumn can be lovely, colourful quite warm or crisp days. But then you really feel the darkness coming, especially after the clocks go back.

blessmycottonsocks said:
An interesting article here about how certain winds such as the Sirocco and Mistral can adversely affect mental health. Voltaire claimed that people killed themselves when a wind was blowing from the east and there are English sayings about "ill winds" and "When the wind is in the east, ’tis good for neither man nor beast."
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That’s interesting. Some winds can be enervating, definitely.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Noted, but there are obviously other geopolitical issues at work there.
If you travel more south-west, the suicide rates (pp100k) tend to drop - France 9.7, Netherlands 9.3, Italy 4.3, Spain 5.3, UK 6.9, Portugal 7.2, Malta 5.3 etc. So, I'm willing to conclude that climate is a significant factor here. One outlier is Belgium 13.9. Culturally and ethnically they are pretty close to the Dutch, so why the high rate? Possibly because Belgium has one of the world's most liberal laws on assisted suicide (and not just for the terminally ill).

An interesting article here about how certain winds such as the Sirocco and Mistral can adversely affect mental health. Voltaire claimed that people killed themselves when a wind was blowing from the east and there are English sayings about "ill winds" and "When the wind is in the east, ’tis good for neither man nor beast."

https://lithub.com/a-brief-eerie-history-of-how-the-wind-makes-us-crazy/
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Not necessarily climate... as you go further towards the south, the extended family tends to be more close-knit, providing additional support.
 
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