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Bridgend Suicides: A Theory

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spearjig1

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Another tragic teenage death announced today...17 in the last year in Bridgend. I really think someone, somewhere nearby are conducting an evil experiment with something very like a Mosquito device - the dispersal ultrasonic that exploits the ability to hear very high frequencies, until the ability declines once one enters their 20's. A very evil experiment that succeeds by driving its victims to suicide. the Mosquito'e effects gave teenagers headaches and made them feel sick in order to disperse large unwanted groups of them...something even more potent aimed at the same age group may be in use here. (An irony that the Mosquito was invented in South Wales).
So why in Bridgend ? Well,any such evil psychological input in the experiment would need to use a key word/phrase/ (ask Derren Brown about this stuff). You've all herad the term 'to end it all' in relation to suicide..then try BridgEND. None have jumped off bridges...it's all hanging. Even more evil psychology employed in there.

:(
 
So, you're linking the spate of teenage suicides in Bridgend to the Mosquito device ... or summat similar?

What would be the actual point of such a device? Just some secret R&D department playing with a gizmo which kills (in an inefficient way) innocent civilian teenagers? Wouldn't someone actually point out a profusion of 'emitters' in the Bridgend area? Or is it all adults - including parents - are in on the conspiracy?

Sorry, but it's more likely* that there's a subculture - communicated either by the internet or the street - which encourages self-harm and fatal depression among a vulnerable group in a town which from all accounts** is so dull, it's inoffensive.

*Likely but evidence-free.
** I've never been there so I can't comment first hand.
 
Interesting theory. I find it unlikely, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

How out of whack are the Bridgend suicides statistically though? Is the suicide rate significantly in excess of the national average in that age group, or have the media just got excited because of the Bebo/Facebook/MySpace angle?
 
According to a couple of news items today, statistically the death rate is not far off what you'd expect for a population of the size of Bridgend and its surrounding area, and according to the Police the whole socail network thing is complete tosh. It's the press that are building the story now, which might have the effect of encouraging more suicide attempts.
 
Statistically, I believe you'd expect approximately 20 suicides per 100,000 per year, the gender split being roughly 85% male and 15% female. Given that there have been 17 deaths in just over a year (13 male, 4 female) from a population of 130,000, I think your evil teenager-hating genius is doing a very good job of keeping their gruesome experiment hidden by the cunning trick of making virtually no difference whatsoever.
 
The only way to make a comparison is with another small community in the UK. Say for instance how many deaths in Wigan? I wouldnt discount anything in this tragic scenario. But there also seems to be correlation between the Brigend tragedies and he Japanese culture of internet suicide pacts.
 
wowsah156 said:
The only way to make a comparison is with another small community in the UK. Say for instance how many deaths in Wigan? I wouldnt discount anything in this tragic scenario. But there also seems to be correlation between the Brigend tragedies and he Japanese culture of internet suicide pacts.
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From posts and reports elsewhere, it appears the area is about sixth in England and Wales.

And I don't see any correlation at all. As far as I'm aware, all these people died alone, didn't they? That's not what the Japanese suicide pacts are about.
 
Recently (a couple of nights ago IIRC), a member of the Brigend council laid the whole sad affair at the feet of the meeja and its overreaction. In effect, they were saying that the usual media outlets were blowing the story out of all proportion, that they were releasing - and relishing - gory details (something which the PCC look very stern at) and that it was the meeja that was encouraging the suicides. According to her (wish I caught her name or function in the council), the reporters were frequently doorstepping her and blatantly misquoting her, interviewing teenagers on the town's streets with the openiong gambit of "D'you feel suicidal?" and making a majority of the story up.

A member of the BBC news team politely asked if she was saying that there had been no recent spate of suicides and that the press were making the whole story up? She waspishly replied that the media were regularly making up stories and that it was they - and not the police - who linked all the suicides.

While I know the press will embellish stories - sexing them up for mass consumption - and that some reporters use utterly immoral methods to get their fees, it sounded like a copper saying "Nothing to see here!" with a massive accident happening in full view right behind them.
 
A member of the BBC news team politely asked if she was saying that there had been no recent spate of suicides and that the press were making the whole story up? She waspishly replied that the media were regularly making up stories and that it was they - and not the police - who linked all the suicides.

While I know the press will embellish stories - sexing them up for mass consumption - and that some reporters use utterly immoral methods to get their fees, it sounded like a copper saying "Nothing to see here!" with a massive accident happening in full view right behind them.
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I dunno. I didn't see the interview so you may well be right and I am sure that local authorities in Bridgend will be keen to play down any such negative stories about their town.

However I think I am right in saying that neither the police nor the Coroner have linked the suicides and indeed have stated that they believe them to be separate incidents.

Young people taking their lives in this way is tragic and terribly distressing but I doubt that so much media attention would have been directed at the case if it didn't invole social networking sites.
 
Location, location, location

Having lived in Maesteg I can say that it surprises me that there aren't more suicides of young people in the area! The whole area, despite experiencing some investment recently, has the feel of a nasty, dead-end, s**thole. It has never properly recovered since the end of coal mining in the area. Whilst the young people who are killing themselves now would not have been personally affected by the destruction of the mining industry, the after-effects of it still seem to live on. Their parents would have been of the generation that was seriously affected.

A neighouring area (Rhondda if I remember correctly, or perhaps one of the other nearby valleys) has the highest level of incapacity benefit claimants per head of population than any area in the UK. Does this tell us something about what it's like?

The countryside around the towns is extremely pretty and easily accessible so you'd think that this would help cheer people up but few people, especially amonst the particularly the young, seem to appreciate it much. The aura of the place, the overall attitude to life, is a less positive one than many other areas of the country. It's very sad.

Edit:
It was Merthyr Tydfil that was the "sickness capital of Britain". See BBC News articles here:

NHS jobs for 'sickness capital' (22/10/2003)
http://news.bbc.co.uk:80/1/hi/wales/sou ... 204065.stm

Wales top of Britain's sick list (02/01/2007)
[mentions Bridgend as being amongst the areas with the highest levels of serious illness)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/wales/6224925.stm
 
Lies, damn lies...

Dr_Baltar said:
Statistically, I believe you'd expect approximately 20 suicides per 100,000 per year, the gender split being roughly 85% male and 15% female. Given that there have been 17 deaths in just over a year (13 male, 4 female) from a population of 130,000, I think your evil teenager-hating genius is doing a very good job of keeping their gruesome experiment hidden by the cunning trick of making virtually no difference whatsoever.
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Dr_Baltar, interesting stats there, and when I first read them I thought "Ah, nothing going on here then". However when I mentioned this to my colleague sat opposite me (a smart cookie if ever I knew one!) she said "Yes, but it's a very narrow age-range that are killing themselves" - the stats quoted seem to be for the general population. I think the '17 deaths' quoted are these kids and does not take into account suicides amongst other age ranges. So perhaps it is notably excessive.

It really is awful though, but spookily Torchwoodian...
 
Re: Lies, damn lies...

lockers said:
Dr_Baltar, interesting stats there, and when I first read them I thought "Ah, nothing going on here then". However when I mentioned this to my colleague sat opposite me (a smart cookie if ever I knew one!) she said "Yes, but it's a very narrow age-range that are killing themselves" - the stats quoted seem to be for the general population. I think the '17 deaths' quoted are these kids and does not take into account suicides amongst other age ranges. So perhaps it is notably excessive.

It really is awful though, but spookily Torchwoodian...
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The figures I quoted are for the 15-44 age group, the suicides have ranged from 15-28. However, we have to bear in mind that the figures are averages for the whole country. The general tendency in the rest of the UK is for older people to commit suicide, whereas Wales is already known for being skewed towards suicides among young men. It is undoubtedly tragic, but I think we have to be careful about reading more into it than actually exists. There's obviously a youth suicide problem in Wales, but it's an ongoing and recognised one, as much as the press would like to sensationalise this into something out of the ordinary.
 
I think the alledged Bebo/MySpace/Facebook connection is unlikely. Yes, these young people used social networking sites, but then so do most people in their age range. It's like saying most of them wore trainers, texted their friends and listened to silly music - there must be a connection here! I read a report a few years ago that claimed suicidal people were more likely to take their own lives if other people do, kind of like "if they can do it so can I" thing and that the media should report on these things in a more sensible manner. Unfortunately I've forgotten where I read it, but it seems like a likely theory.

As for the Mosquito-like device, I can't see any reason for such a weapon or believe that anyone would actually use it against civilians if it existed.
 
An internet stalker who encourages children to kill themselves has been uncovered by a Berkshire woman.
Historian Celia Blay, from Maidenhead, said she came across the man when speaking to a troubled teenager.

He makes contact with vulnerable children and encourages them to take their lives while he watches them through a webcam, she said.

Ms Blay claims she has discovered he is based in the US Midwest and has reported it to the police.

She said she stumbled across him while she was having an online conversation with a troubled teenager she was trying to help.

[He] is very sympathetic but never, ever suggests that they seek help

Celia Blay, historian

"He doesn't really mind who his victims are. He tells them how to hang themselves and how to hang themselves in front of a webcam," she said.

"He is very sweet, he pretends to be an emergency room nurse.

"He calls them 'hun' and 'darling' and this sort of thing and is very sympathetic but never, ever suggests that they seek help."

Paul Kelly, from the suicide prevention charity Papyrus, said the current law cannot do anything to stop such people.

In 2001, Mr Kelly's son Simon took his own life after obtaining instructions from a an internet suicide website.

Mr Kelly said: "The Suicide Act goes back to 1961, which obviously predates the very existence of the internet and we regard it as being quite ineffective to challenge the current development."

He added that there was very little police could do in such cases, unless there were clear links and proof connecting the predator with the victim.



Link
 
Mr. Baltar, a lot of people have noticed a link between media coverage of suicide and increases in suicide rate, but the place you're most likely to have seen it is in something from Loren Coleman, of cryptozoological fame, who is evangelical on the subject.

The meme is abroad in children's publishing, to the point where some publishers won't touch fiction about suicide, or even nonfiction intended to help people having suicidal thoughts. Yes, yes, I know, but I'm from the land of abstinence-only education, remember - many people here seriously think that if you pretend hard enough, reality will go away.

The media connection between social networking sites and suicide reminds me forcibly of the media connection between roleplaying games and suicide, most memorably made in the "dungeon master" case back in the 80s but reiterated any time anyone who has ever played a roleplaying game has anything bad happen to him. It's much easier to find a trend and blame it than to deal with the real complexities of a tragedy.

I would say there is a serious problem in the circle of the "original" suicide (and I wonder why the stats start there; what would happen if you shifted the start date?), but that we won't find out what it is by looking at the statistics. Is there a depressive trend in the family? Did clinical depressives hang out together in that school? Were they driven together by social pressures? Is there in fact an exterior element that makes things worse? Such an element could indeed surface on Myspace, but could just as easily be found in a common counterproductive tendency anywhere in their lives - if (to make something up entirely out of whole cloth with no reference to reality at all) they all went to the same church and were encouraged to regard the suicides as eternally damned as ordained by God from the beginning of time; or school counselors take the attitude that anyone who doesn't react in exactly the "right" way must be pressured into doing so instead of being allowed to have their own reactions.

None of these newspaper stories seem to be addressing useful questions in any depth; in consequence, they may well do more harm than good.
 
"a lot of people have noticed a link between media coverage of suicide and increases in suicide rate"

Indeed - it's known as the Werther Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide

But for this particular instance it's hard to say - the numbers aren't big enough to make it look like a definite cluster.
 
Another theory is that they're being affected by the masts.

MOBILE phones and wireless internet could be behind Bridgend’s growing suicide rate, according to a microwave expert.

Barrie Trower said he is “99 per cent sure” Bridgend’s 13 suspected suicides are a result of waves from mobile phones, wi-fi and pagers.

Mr Trower, a scientific adviser to the Radiation Research Trust, said he is convinced the deaths are related to an illness caused by the waves after investigating five suicide “clusters” across the UK and Ireland.

He is contacting Bridgend Local Health Board and Bridgend County Borough Council to ask them to discuss the issue with him.

Mr Trower is willing to visit Bridgend to speak about the problem.

“I am 99 per cent sure,” said Mr Trower, who contributed to the BBC Panorama programme WiFi: A Warning Signal. “I think I can link them all together and I think it’s a viable reason to look into. We know the suicide rates are rising. The increase in suicides does match the speed of low level microwaves. It’s happening in every country in the world, not just Bridgend.”

Mr Trower has been researching the effects of microwaves since the 1960s and addressed the Welsh Assembly on the issue two years ago.

He has investigated links between 182 suicides and electrosensitivity, a condition thought to affect three per cent of the population.

Last year, he wrote the Trower Report for the Police Federation, in which he said waves from the new police radio system could create “anxiety leading to suicide”.

According to his research, the symptoms of electrosensitivity include depression, lack of concentration, personality changes and suicidal tendencies.

He says young people are particularly susceptible as their immune system is not wholly developed.

“It’s the young who get it first,” he said. “The younger you are, your skull is thinner than an adult’s so the waves can go through and your immune system is not fully developed. The suicide rate is leaping up all over the place and it happens to cluster in areas.”
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In the past Mr Trower has made his findings available to the police and claims that the TETRA pulse and its frequency of 17.6Hz can interfere with the brain's natural rhythm.. a very dangerous thing indeed.

http://www.tetrawatch.net/papers/trower_report.pdf


Then we have this claim from Dr. Roger Coghill...

Dr Roger Coghill, who sits on a Government advisory committee on mobile radiation, has discovered that all 22 youngsters who have killed themselves in Bridgend, South Wales, over the past 18 months lived far closer than average to a mast.

He has examined worldwide studies linking proximity of masts to depression. Dr Coghill’s work is likely to trigger alarm and lead to closer scrutiny of the safety of masts, which are frequently sited on public buildings such as schools and hospitals.

It is also likely to fuel more campaigns against placing masts close to public places on health grounds.
Dr Coghill said last night there was strong circumstantial evidence that the masts may have triggered depression in those from Bridgend who took their lives.

They include Kelly Stephenson, 20, who hanged herself from a shower rail in February this year while on holiday in Folkestone, Kent.

Dr Coghill said: “There is a body of research that has over the years pointed to the fact that exposure to mobile radiation can lead to depression. There is evidence of higher suicide rates where people live near any electrical equipment that gives off radio or electrical waves.”
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http://www.express.co.uk/printer/view/49330/


Facebook my ass.
 
Dr Trower said:
"It’s the young who get it first,” he said. “The younger you are, your skull is thinner than an adult’s so the waves can go through and your immune system is not fully developed. The suicide rate is leaping up all over the place and it happens to cluster in areas."
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Not sure this guy's theories will get too far, tbh:


Suicide rate drops in young men

The suicide rate among young men in England and Wales is at the lowest level for 30 years, say researchers.

----------------------------------------

For women, suicide rates have been fairly steady. However, the proportion of women aged 15 to 34 committing suicide by hanging has increased "massively" - from 5.7% of all suicides in 1968 to 47.3% by 2005.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7244486.stm
 
Coghill's a self appointed expert in his own mind, and makes his money from flogged dubious magnetic therapy devices.

He's not a medical doctor.

Take anything he says with a bucket of salt.
 
Well, the government's judgement has been known to be faulty once or twice before...
 
Mr Coghill's submitted evidence to various committees, the articles are a bit vague as to what government committee it actually is...I wonder if the papers are confused.

Coghill Biog
 
Coghill looks exceedingly dodgy, and seems to be peddling various magic magnet-based healing devices (including some for your car).

I can't find any actual evidence that he's on a government advisory committee, can anyone else?

The members of the Mobile Telecoms Health Research program are here -
http://www.mthr.org.uk/documents/MTHR_report_2007.pdf

- all profs and Sirs and OBEs, nary an alternative health type among them.

And, suspiciously, they haven't found any health hazard. Conspiracy or what?
 
Rather than have people pointing at the dodginess of the messengers, I was kind of hoping that someone here with a bit of scientific knowledge would have voiced an opinion on the accuracy of the Trower report to the police federation link I posted,
In advice to police, it states that the frequency of Tetra is dangerously close to that of the brain and could produce effects such as headaches and severe depresssion. As I understand it, tetra is pulse-based and more powerful than other microwave carriers.

(this from a Western Mail article in 2004)...

A RADIO system at a police station may be making police officers ill, it has been claimed.

The Tetra communication system used by the emergency services has prompted protests by communities living near the masts.

Now three officers and two civilian staff at Barry police station have complained the Tetra system there is making them ill.

Inspector David Hathway said, "Within South Wales we have had a number of officers in the Barry area who expressed concern that they felt unwell when they became aware that a Tetra mast was operating from that location.
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The Powerwatch site counters the allegation that the masts are to blame for the suicides of the poor kids at Bridgend with this ..



According to the article, masts are placed on average 800 metres away from each home across the country. In Bridgend the victims lived on average only 356 metres away. The national average distance from a new powerful mast (definition of this was unspecified) is a kilometre while in Bridgend it is 540 metres. Three transmitters were within 200 metres, 13 within 400 metres and as many as 22 within 500 metres of victims' homes. Carwyn Jones, 28, who hanged himself last week, was the third young person in his street to commit suicide.

Realistically, exposure to a mobile phone base station is likely to be negligible even as close as 150 metres away, and exposure to microwave frequency radiation from other sources (such as DECT phone units in houses with cordless phones and WiFi - including occupational or classroom exposure) are likely to be far higher. On top of this, there is no indication whether or not the cases were mobile phone users themselves. There is no reason to believe that this association is a possible risk factor, let alone the primary one.
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http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/news/20080 ... uicide.asp

'Three transmitters were within 200 metres, 13 within 400 metres and as many as 22 within 500 metres of victims' homes.' This seems like quite a significant amount. What if some of those masts are the more powerful Tetra?
 
jimv1 said:
http://www.koreus.com/video/telephone-portable-mais-popcorn.html
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According to the blurb under the video, the video's a fake, a bit of viral marketing for a firm called, 'Cardo,' who make blue tooth headsets.

If you think about it, the amount of energy required to do that trick would, at the very least, flatten the batteries of those mobiles, in seconds. ;)

'Description : Il parait que si on met quelques grains de maïs devant des téléphones portables, les ondes émises lors d'un appel ferait assez de chaleur pour transformer le maïs en pop-corn. Je vous rassure c'est un fake, une publicté virale pour la marque Cardo, un fabricant d’oreillettes Bluetooth.'
 
For women, suicide rates have been fairly steady. However, the proportion of women aged 15 to 34 committing suicide by hanging has increased "massively" - from 5.7% of all suicides in 1968 to 47.3% by 2005.
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it doesn't tell us what the previosuly favoured methods were, but possibly the overprescription of barbiturates (and later benzodiazapines) in the past made those more accessible and palatable options than hanging.

also, anyone remember when we changed to 'safer' mains gas?
 
jimv1 said:
Rather than have people pointing at the dodginess of the messengers, I was kind of hoping that someone here with a bit of scientific knowledge would have voiced an opinion on the accuracy of the Trower report to the police federation link I posted,
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I have no acedemic qualifications in this area but I do deal with GSM.

Tetra base stations are 410 to 430 Mhz and 25 watts.
GSM is 900 to 1800 Mhz and base stations 20 - 40 watts.

The GSM frequencies have less penetration and are absorbed more easily than the lower frequency Tetra.

I guess what I'm saying is that in my less than expert opinion Tetra is lower powered and is of a frequency that is not absorbed as readily as GSM. So if RF from commenucations are a problem the effects would be seen sooner from GSM than Tetra.
 
Thanks for that.

the excellent Ben Goldacre has tried to get some information out of Coghill for his bad science column in the Guardian and it seems he's lost his notes.

Hmmmmm.

Who is raising these concerns? "Dr Roger Coghill, who sits on a government advisory committee on mobile radiation, has discovered that all 22 youngsters who have killed themselves in Bridgend, South Wales, over the past 18 months lived far closer than average to a mast ... Masts are placed on average 800 metres away from each home across the country. In Bridgend the victims lived on average only 356 metres away."

These are extremely serious issues. There is reasonable evidence of a possible link between power lines and childhood leukaemia, after all, and we may not yet know the long-term physical risks posed by phones to those who use them, since mobiles have not been around too long.

I contacted Dr Coghill, since his work is now a matter of great public concern, and it is vital his evidence can be properly assessed.

He was unable to give me the data. No paper has been published. He himself would not describe the work as a "study". There are no statistics presented on it, and I cannot see the raw figures. In fact Dr Coghill tells me he has lost the figures. Despite its potentially massive public health importance, Dr Coghill is sadly unable to make his material assessable
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... bilephones

Reading this, it seems that to Coghill every aliment is, in some extent, due to the effects of electromagnetics. And his company are the ones producing the technology to counter these effects.

A sort of Magnet Magnate if you will. Still very interesting though.
 
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