Stonehenge

[Anonymous]

Another Theory

How about the theory that:
Megalithic Monuments are Cosmic Impact Catastrophe, Early Warning Systems ?

 

[Anonymous]

Nothing To Do With Me, Honest.

Strange Rays Over Horseshoe Canyon

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the rays, I love atmospheric phenomena...
however the other one was deep b/s.

 

[Anonymous]

the other site

No I take it back, it's brilliant b/s...

The British School of Coherent Catastrophism

(much better than the other kind)

 

[Anonymous]

I Was Only Borrowing It, Officer.

The weather phenomenon's from todays News on the main FT site.

The 'Coherent Catastrophe' site is rather pretty though, eh?

Who must spend so much time on these sites?

 

[Anonymous]

Signs and symbols

I frequently think that the girlfriend's rant in Eco's "Foucault's Penduluum" should be required reading for all those interested in Earth Mysteries, Sacred Geometry and the like.

You should also get hold of Prof Ron Hutton's work, if you haven't done so already.

An awful lot of neopagan dogma about Celtic backgrounds to our myths etc owes its existence to the Edwardian romantics and not any continuation of use tradition.

The sun is round; the moon is round; many things in nature are circular. No wonder that there are a lot of circles in mystical insignia and the like. A lot of these things can be boiled down to something very basic and practical, and it's not some great spiritual statement about he way the universe works.

I'm afraid I find the whole fat stone=yoni, thin stone = lingam theory a little bit too contrived, no matter how much Cope might think it's appealing, or Meaden insists it's correct (we used to hide the bananas, you know). Modern day man looks at prehistoric site and lets his own fantasies take precedence.

We just don't know. Without the use of a time machine we never will know. If we paint the window of the past with our own predilections, all we do is project an image of ourselves onto our ancestors, and we'll never get to know them any better.

Sam

 

[Anonymous]

What's the significance of the 56 satellite stones (28 * 2 = 2 months?)?

That's either a very long conception or a very short pregnancy

 

[rynner2]

Re: Signs and symbols

The sun is round; the moon is round; many things in nature are circular. No wonder that there are a lot of circles in mystical insignia and the like. A lot of these things can be boiled down to something very basic and practical, and it's not some great spiritual statement about he way the universe works.

True. Some things look like other things. Engineers talk about male and female parts in couplings and connections, for example, without implying any deep mystic symbolism. (They like nipples too - where are the nipples at Stonehenge?! )

 

[Anonymous]

The sun is round; the moon is round; many things in nature are circular. No wonder that there are a lot of circles in mystical insignia and the like. A lot of these things can be boiled down to something very basic and practical, and it's not some great spiritual statement about he way the universe works.

I'm afraid I wrote a story about it
I'll get my spacesuit

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Signs and symbols

I frequently think that the girlfriend's rant in Eco's "Foucault's Penduluum" should be required reading for all those interested in Earth Mysteries, Sacred Geometry and the like.

You should also get hold of Prof Ron Hutton's work, if you haven't done so already.

An awful lot of neopagan dogma about Celtic backgrounds to our myths etc owes its existence to the Edwardian romantics and not any continuation of use tradition.

So, what is 'the girlfriend's rant' about, R?

I'm afraid I haven't come across Prof. Hutton. What does he have to say that is relevant?

What is romantically Edwardian about a taboo on eating horsemeat?

 

[rynner2]

Come to think about it, there ARE nipples at Stonehenge - on top of the uprights, as part of the 'mortice-and-tenon' joint for locating the lintels!

 

[Anonymous]

Smoothly, Feminine, Uprightly, Thrusting.

Here's a good overview of the straight Archæological perspective of the development of the Stonehenge site, from:

The Form And Function of Stonehenge (Anthropology Homepage) University of Texas.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: Signs and symbols

So, what is 'the girlfriend's rant' about, R?

I'm afraid I haven't come across Prof. Hutton. What does he have to say that is relevant?

What is romantically Edwardian about a taboo on eating horsemeat?

Foucault's Penduluum, as you might well know, is all about a young publisher type who gets obsessed by the idea of the grand unifying conspiracy theory, primarily the Illuminati. It's a bit like Anton Wilson and Shea's trilogy, only posh and European.

There is this fantastic 4 page rant in which our hero's girlfriend, utterly fed up with him running around Europe getting embroiled in mystical shenanigans and trying to find the answer to life, the universe and everything in alchemical symbology, points out that one of the reasons magic circles are circles is that it means you can walk round them without going very far, and gives all sorts of practical, mundane reasons for the existence of many other magical holy cows. I nearly wet myself laughing when I read it for the first time.

Ron Hutton is a professor of history at Bristol University, and has written several books including "Triumph of the Moon" about the development of modern witchcraft in Britain, and "Stations of the Sun", which is about the various pagan festivals currently celebrated. He shoots a few holy cows as well.

There actually isn't a taboo on eating horsemeat. It's culturally frowned upon, just as eating dog meat is, and insects, and various other protein rich food sources because we have preconceptions about our relationships with these creatures. As far as I am aware, there is no law against eating horsemeat in this country.

It's all too easy to take current cultural traits and claim they are a result of Ancient Celtic Traditions [TM] but there is very little evidence for any extant surviving tradtions that can be traced back to Celtic heritage - and the Celts were not a self-aware socio-political entity (as a chap on BritArch put it so memorably on one occasion). We have modern romantic notions about our Ancestors that basically boils down to "things were better in the good old days", with the emphasis on "old". This craving for the good old days is particularly true in modern American Wicca (which is not the same thing as British Traditional Wicca, known simply as Wicca or as The Craft in the UK, and as BTW in the US - very confusing, as BTW in this country means British Traditional Witchcraft, which is an entirely different thing).

Sam

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Smoothly, Feminine, Uprightly, Thrusting.

Here's a good overview of the straight Archæological perspective of the development of the Stonehenge site

That's quite good, although I would point out that the debate over the bluestones being "moved by man" or "glacial erratic" isn't quite as settled as the article makes out.

Sam

 

[Jerry_B]

Even the term 'Celtic' is a misnomer, as it implies a unified culture that was spread across western Europe. It's true that various different states in the Iron Age indulged in sharing trade, religious and other links, but there wasn't a whole homogenised Celtic culture as such. This is another thing some modern pagans tend not to be able to grasp, especially in the US, and evenmore so if they're of a 'Celtic' bent. I used to frequent the alt.religion.druid newsgroup and I must say that 99% of discussion there had very little to do with any actualities rooted in either archaeology or history. This is a prime example from one of the big cheeses from that newsgroup: http://www.summerlands.org/. He also thought that the word 'Somerset' had something to do with Summer

 

[Breakfastologist]

Aren't most british megalithic remains well pre-celtic anyway? I thought the celts were bronze-age upstarts.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Re: Smoothly, Feminine, Uprightly, Thrusting.

That's quite good, although I would point out that the debate over the bluestones being "moved by man" or "glacial erratic" isn't quite as settled as the article makes out.

Well, I'm glad it meets with your general approval. I wouldn't like to think it might overstep the mark into heresy.

As to horsemeat. Popular in Holland, Belgium, Germany and etc. But, perhaps you remember the scandal and shock when it was revealed that those little shetland ponies were being sent abroad to end up on johnny foreigner's table, a few years back?

I've tried it (as an experiment), a bit sweet perhaps.

Yes, there is a taboo on dogmeat and cat too. We get very upset by those orientals and their ways. Yet we eat the youngest and most frisky of lambs and force feed calves to make veal (Not all of us, obviously. I'm talking culturally). Mulims and jews do not eat pork, Hindus do not eat beef, these are religous taboos that appear to be left overs from previous belief systems. The whys and wherefores are complicated, but I'll stand by a general taboo on knowingly eating horse in the British Isles.

Originally posted by JerryB
Even the term 'Celtic' is a misnomer, as it implies a unified culture that was spread across western Europe. It's true that various different states in the Iron Age indulged in sharing trade, religious and other links, but there wasn't a whole homogenised Celtic culture as such. This is another thing some modern pagans tend not to be able to grasp,

Coming from Scotland, I so prefer the term 'Celtic,' to such even vaguer entities as, 'Indo-European,' (the discredited) 'Aryan,' or even 'Le Tene,' and 'Hallstatt.'

Alright so it has little to do with axeheads, or football and more to do with a related group of indo-european languages, but I like it. And Epona stays celtic, sorry. If others misuse the term, I cannot be held responsible. And who knows, through usage the word 'celtic' may well be bent by its users to their usage and meaning. That's the way of language.

 

[Anonymous]

Aren't most british megalithic remains well pre-celtic anyway? I thought the celts were bronze-age upstarts.

Late Bronze, Early Iron Age, in fact. From somewhere out the Indus Valley way and heading through Iraq, Turkey, Bulgaria and the likes, for Germany, Belgium, France and here (stopping off at other points of interest on the way).

Megalithic monuments are mostly from the New Stone Age (or, Neolithic), probably built by nomadic herders and settled farmers. This period was preceded by the Mesolithic, when hunter gatherers roamed the woods, forest, marshes and downs, leaving their fine napped flints. Before that the Paeleolithic, the 'Old Stone Age, back, back to the last Ice Age and the L'Escaux cave artists.

Roughly.

 

[rynner2]

...He also thought that the word 'Somerset' had something to do with Summer

I've heard that from some fairly respectable authority (but can't remember who). Something to do with the Somerset Levels being good grazing land in summer, but often flooded in winter. (In fact, with global warming and sea level rises, Somerset is returning to this condition again.)

 

[conchell]

Hmmm... I'm looking at the overhead view and I can't find the clitoris...

You're probably not the first man ever to make that comment.

 

[Jerry_B]

I've heard that from some fairly respectable authority (but can't remember who). Something to do with the Somerset Levels being good grazing land in summer, but often flooded in winter. (In fact, with global warming and sea level rises, Somerset is returning to this condition again.)

The best theory I've heard is that 'Somerset' is taken from 'sae-mere seatas' - literally, 'the settlers on the sea lakes'. (I dunno if global warming is really making a difference - where I grew up in south Somerset, it always flooded badly, and always has done. My grandfather grew up in the same area, and sometimes had to travel to school in a rowing boat!).

 

[butterfly27]

Since when has a horshoe had such symbolism attached to it? Most folkore surrounding horshoes are based on taboos to do with luck and the fact that they can look like horns.

These extracts are taken from "Man, Myth & Magic", a partwork published in the late '60's. No specific author is credited with the piece, but the work as a whole features input from some of the leading folklore authorities of the period.

......Other authorities have found a relationship between the horseshoe and the crescent moon, which it resembles in shape.

......Horseshoes were sometimes used in marriage divination. Perhaps this is why, if a girl loses her virginity, the Germans say: "She has lost a horseshoe."

.......recipe, used for curing impotence in Morocco......a charm is written on a horseshoe, preferably an old one, which is heated by a blacksmith and dipped in water. If the patient then drinks this every morning for a week on an empty stomach, his virility will return.

So if horseshoes have been linked in the human psyche with the crescent moon and fertility, they have also, by inference, been linked with Diana who was the moon goddess.

 

[butterfly27]

Re: Another Theory

How about the theory that:
Megalithic Monuments are Cosmic Impact Catastrophe, Early Warning Systems ?

Thanks for the link, Androman.
Its good to see that there are multi-disciplinary teams giving thought to such issues. This has got to be a step forward.
But I can't help thinking that they're projecting modern-day paranoia into ancient history.
Surely if our ancestors were astute enough to be aware of Cosmic Impact Catastrophe, their early warning systems would be a little less primitive. :hmph:

 

[Jerry_B]

So if horseshoes have been linked in the human psyche with the crescent moon and fertility, they have also, by inference, been linked with Diana who was the moon goddess. [/B]

Hmm, not directly tho'. I don't see the sense in making such indirect links.

 

[Breakfastologist]

Surely if our ancestors were astute enough to be aware of Cosmic Impact Catastrophe, their early warning systems would be a little less primitive.

You should have seen their response systems. The disasters they averted with their bluestone, antler & natural quartz planetary laser where beyond counting, I heard.

 

[Anonymous]

Aye

Did you not see yon bloke from UCLA who tried to demonstrate the use of a polished bronze mirror to heat rock to melting point? That's how the Inca masonry was done, he said. They probably had orbital mind control lasers as well, made by carefully knapping obsidian so that the conchoidal fracture lines diffracted light into hypnotic patterns.:eek!!!!:

Sam

 

[Anonymous]

You're probably not the first man ever to make that comment.

Now, come on, really. They aren't that hard to find; I think you lot are making this up.

 

[marion]

Silbury Hill is supposed to be uterine shaped and the small lake represent amniotic fluid,personally this seems like a lot of hooey to me.
Lots of shapes are supposed to represent female parts-including triangles (e.g. cuniform writing ) and spirals. I personally don't think people would have used shapes that represented internal parts though,dunno why exactly,it just doesn't seem right!

 

[Anonymous]

Silbury Hill is supposed to be uterine shaped and the small lake represent amniotic fluid,personally this seems like a lot of hooey to me.

And there's me thinking it represents the pregnant belly of the Earth Mother.

 

[Breakfastologist]

It all just seems a little bit obsessive to me. I mean, anything can be made to look like anything if you are too fixated, can't it.

I reckon Stonehenge was just a Rorschach ink-blot test on the part of the mesolithic british.