Yes, you're quite correct regarding which section of Corporation Road the shop would have been on (due to Ray's account and others who remember it being very close to the station). Thanks for the info. (Although BOTH roads- A61 AND this part of Corporation Road are actually to the West of the station).
Yes, the signal box?
The reference to the Psychic News article is as per the Strange North-East Derbyshire website, i.e. Brocklehurst, V, 2016. 'Time and Time Again'. Psychic News, issue 4143. Psychic News is a printed magazine: it also exists online but you have to subscribe to it to see the online versions.
Signal box?
Thanks for the extra info -- I'll check it out, see if I can afford to subscribe!
Oh, sorry- was in a rush at the time I read your question! Yes, another slip close by is very interesting. Did you hear back from Eyre?
Carl- just a point regarding the ''side by side'' mapping link I sent. I have an interest in old roads and how our towns/cities/road network used to be, so I can spend hours (and hours) on this site. Following the (very many) disused railway lines can also be quite addictive. I find that when choosing the map years, (on the left of the page), the 1955-61 series is good for a colour map (but still long enough ago to be interesting) and the 1892-1914 series is the best for detail, (that was the one I sent of Chesterfield). I know you'd have worked this out for yourself, but just thought I'd mention it.
Yes, this could be a vital point. It could be a demonstration of how much our "reality" derives from social consensus, not from personal experience, which again is something many of the ancient teachers fully understood. It may be one factor in the idea of a temporary separation from the world, which led in a distorted form to monasticism, or even cult membership (which of course is just replacing one social consensus by another!). One glitch type experience I had (among many others) reminds me of what you say were your minor events. It was a very everyday thing. Because of my wife's various medical conditions we have to sleep separately, and I remained in the double bed and I put together a special orthopedic bed for her. But she was concerned as the seasons turned chilly, that I needed an extra blanket. She produced half of a thick purple blanket -- it had been cut down the middle, but not only that, one end had also been cut down. It was warm but as I moved about in my sleep, the bottom of the piece of blanket, not properly tucked under the mattress, kept coming out. On multiple occasions -- dozens at least -- I had to rearrange the bedding just to fit the wretched thing back in place. I didn't dare complain about this, looking a gift horse in the mouth etc., but one day when I was going to replace the sheets my wife said she would help and produced a half purple blanket, this one full length. I said thanks for that, the other one was a bit short. What other one? she asked. I explained. "Is this the complete half?" I asked. Again she denied that she had changed it. We moved on to change her bed. Lying ready was a folded up purple blanket. "That must be the incomplete piece," I thought, thinking that she would have to admit that I was right. But -- this was also full length.This is what strikes me, and is in fact what I was thinking before I'd even read that bit. The chap goes on holiday unaware of this bypass until he hears people talking about it - then sure enough he finds it and uses it. So, for him it exists. It continues to exist on his next trip, with his partner. Then someone 'bursts the bubble' as it were, and suddenly it doesn't exist.
I'm not sure what this means, exactly... but it's another curious angle to the already interesting time slip phenomenon.
For what it's worth there have been two incidents in my life (one also involving Mr Zebra) in which reality 'changed' in this way once the situation I thought to be true, was challenged. But they were incredibly minor events, not like this Australian one. But it does make one wonder...
Thanks -- I have an interest in old maps anyway, so I don't need much encouragement to look at more! I agree that those late Victorian/Edwardian maps are especially good.
It all seems to show that reality isn't what it's cracked up to be! It also suggests links with those Shaolin monks who can do physically impossible things using chi -- just knowing that they can do it makes it possible. Or people running the 4 minute mile after Bannister showed that it could be done.
Now all we need to do is find an old map that shows some evidence of a building/foundation in the Rougham case. That would be the Holy Grail.
The bypass case has got me thinking about the Victor Goddard incident in the 30s when he saw ten or so years into the future as he flew over what was (supposed to be) an abandoned airfield.
Well, out of three sighting locations, we have some map indications of two possible buildings, although one not as large as one would expect from the description. However, in that case there is the satellite imagery, which shows a fairly substantial debris field. It's just the Bradfield case that remains problematic. I suspect that ground penetrating radar might help, and Chris Jensen Romer, who knows the Time Team people, was trying to arrange that a while back, but it seems to have come to nothing.
Yes, that case often comes up and seems to arouse a lot of interest. The description of the incident seems convincing, although a lot of people argue that Goddard just flew miles off course and happened on a different airfield with planes of an unfamiliar type. However, it still seems unlikely to me that mechanics working on an airfield would fail to look up at an off course plane flying low over their heads. And the sudden change in weather conditions (noted also in the Kersey case of course) strikes me as significant.
I immediately thought of the 'Time Team' bods when thinking about GPR for the Rougham site(s)! I don't think they'd be too interested in a 'ghost house' though to be honest. Too 'unscientific' for them. - The Goddard case does mention how the uniforms he saw the crews wearing on the ground didn't come into use until four or five years later, which would suggest he hadn't flown over a different airfield I suppose. (Unless it was something he wasn't privy to of course). Also it was Goddard who took the squadron photo where the airman who had been killed a few days earlier appeared on the back row, although I have read reports of it where no one with the airman's name could be found who was at that base.
Yes, I tend to accept Goddard's story, he was clearly a sensitive and obviously that wasn't an isolated incident in his life. Interesting that some people attach a huge importance to this case because he was (a) high in rank, and (b) famous. Shows how people are reacting like tribal members ("the medicine man says it's happened so it must be right") rather than taking each case on its merits. And I suspect that the sceptics who go to great lengths to try to dismiss it are similarly motivated.
Yes, I agree. -I have read, again, your article on the Rougham case. Are we to assume then, that the 1837 map wich clearly shows a building in the exact place where many people say they saw the house (ie to the West of Kingshall), is a genuine map and that the only 'problem' with it is the size of the building drawn?
The house to the West was described as a thatched country house, fairly small, with a garden. In that case, the map actually seems to be consistent with the descriptions given by witnesses. To the East, the house shown looks a bit small to be a grand Georgian mansion, although looking again at Jean Batram's drawing, it doesn't suggest a huge building. Trouble is that the 1837 map is hard to interpret. The scale is too small to show much detail or any real impression of the size of individiual houses, so all we can say for sure is that houses are shown in the correct positions. This is more than can be said for the Wynne-Allington house.
Yes, they're both very important - Carl, just a couple more points that maybe either you've already considered/written about and/or are irrelevant in any case, (apologies in advance if so); regarding the Wynne/Allington case, is it possible that there was a third route they took, by not going West on Moat Lane, or South to Oake Farm, but by going further to the S/W and crossing over Eastlow Hill Road heading towards the small lake and then back Eastbound before rejoining the path Southbound to Hall Farm, and also, how relevant is the cemetery at the end of White Horse Lane regarding the globes of light seen there by the Barkers in your opinion?
Obviously we can't be 100% sure which course they took, but the logical route for people new to an area, if they did actually have a line of sight to follow, would be to use the established footpaths where possible. And if they did end up at the farm and followed the path through the farmyard (no longer possible, of course) then there can be little doubt about where the wall was, and roughly where the house would have been. As I observed, following that route today, there is a ditch on that side of the road, and where it ends there is a gap in the hedge, which I suspect is where the gate would have been.
Well, it certainly looks like there was something there that isn't any longer. It vanishes and changes after the early 1900s maps, to a different set of buildings, more recognisable to what is there today.
I think you're on to something there -- that building does look to be in the position where the girls would have seen it (or the roof thereof). Odd that no other maps show it (that I have looked at anyway!). Damn it, looks as if I will have to do another "final revision" of that report!
It disappears at some point between 1903 and 1913 according to the maps. Also, (not on the last map I sent from 1900), but on the later ones from early 1900s, it shows that there was, even then, a path running to the side of Hall farm, so there was no need to actually go through the farm itself (although you still could if you wished). Probably irrelevant as it came out on Church Road at the same place as the one running through the farm, but just thought I'd mention it.
Ps. I was wondering about the cemetery on Rougham Road (Chapel Road as it was once called), the one that comes across almost to the Northern end of White Horse Lane, (not the one at the church itself). Could that help us in any way regarding names of people buried there-dates etc?
Yes, some of the older maps aren't quite as accurate, but the same shape of building appears on two early maps, then totally changes on later ones. The building seems to be in about the same place as the pond, so quite a bit away from the dairy.
Yes, cancel my last statement. It is, as you say, quite close to the modern dairy. I wonder how long a dairy has been there? That would be a big help.
