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Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

In the US, any patient who is conscious and coherent and has not signed an assignment of responsibility to a proxy can leave the hospital (assuming they can walk) if he signs a release of "discharge against the advice of a physician. " I suppose a judge could issue a requirement that they be relieved of this right, and would if public health were at stake.
But in this case that would likely require them to have evidence that he's a threat to public health. In this case the man is apparently in poor health... but the patient didn't want to be kept in the hospital any longer. The determination of whether his is a threat to public health rests not on if he's sick, but on: is he still contagious? Is he?

Even if he is being quarantined at home is potentially an option.
 
When the In-House GP was back in his hospital days, he would occasionally come home grumbling about a patient discharging themselves, especially when he knew that they'd be back in the next day or so with exactly the same issue...
To be fair though, some people are terrified, absolutely terrified, of being in hospital, and especially so at the moment. My friend didn't want to attend hospital when he was unwell because of the fear of covid and I thought he died because of this.( turned out in fact that nothing could be done for him anyway so I was wrong). I expect that there have been deaths as a result of reluctance to attend A&E which could have been avoided.
 
It's more to do with mental capacity rather than just being conscious and coherent. You can be both these things but still, be a danger to yourself or others. In this case, though that's a different topic.

The overriding issue here is this is no longer the treatment of an individual but a public health concern as the patient leaving will put the local population at risk. The onus has thus shifted from the clinician and treatment team to the public health system. The patient can lose some of their autonomy during this sort of situation if they are a danger to others. Public Health officials do have the necessary regulations to protect the population and if that means confining the patient to the hospital then so be it.

The visitor that instigated all this is on shaky ground. He was not family, had breached health and safety rules, and had himself become a danger to others. The hospital was well within its rights to remove him and have him arrested.
I agree with you in theory but in the US the laws against being a public threat are obviously inadequate or everyone would be wearing masks or in jail. In the early 20th century New York was able to arrest and permanently restrain a long-term typhoid carrier, the notorious Typhoid Mary, who refused to admit her condition and modify her behavior. She was a cook and said she had to cook to survive, but that is not an excuse for spreading typhoid wherever you work. The visitor described was also disturbing the peace, but in the US he wouldn't have gotten that far, once the patient said he wanted to leave and there was a witness that he had been warned, they would have brought him his pants. I know personally of a case in which a diagnosed slightly-controlled schizophrenic with obvious acute appendicitis was brought to a hospital by his mother and had to be permitted to leave because he wanted to because he said the hospital staff were threatening him. Later that day he collapsed and this time since he was unconscious through the surgery he stayed in the hospital.
 
One gaping hole in some conspiracy theorist's theory: .. 'Yeah, it's all the rich and powerful people who are behind this!!' ..

So I'm being asked to believe by conspiracy theorists that 'the rich and powerful' have suddenly decided that instead of gathering income tax off each working individual and amassing an absolute fortune .. wait for it .. 'the rich and powerful' are asking us to stay at home on 80% full pay instead? .. producing very little tangible products for no good reason? .. so they've deliberately invented/exaggerated etc a fake virus to scare us for what reason? .. to make less money for themselves?. None of that adds up.
 
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One gaping hole in some conspiracy theorist's theory: .. 'Yeah, it's all the rich and powerful people who are behind this!!' ..

So I'm being asked to believe by conspiracy theorists that 'the rich and powerful' have suddenly decided that instead of gathering income tax off each working individual and amassing an absolute fortune .. wait for it .. 'the rich and powerful' are asking us to stay at home on 80% full pay instead? .. producing very little tangible products for no good reason? .. so they've deliberately invented/exaggerated etc a fake virus to scare us for what reason? .. to make less money for themselves?. None of that adds up.
Ah but everyone is staying home and buying things from Amazon so Jeff Bezos is happy! He apaprently has a personal wealth of US$185.7 billion making him the second richest person in the world. This amount is 2,750,825 times the median U.S. household income
 
Ah but everyone is staying home and buying things from Amazon so Jeff Bezos is happy! He apaprently has a personal wealth of US$185.7 billion making him the second richest person in the world. This amount is 2,750,825 times the median U.S. household income
He's back to second richest? .. Elon Musk overtook him for a few days then Jeff secured the top spot again. Who's Top of the Pops now instead? ..
 
He's back to second richest? .. Elon Musk overtook him for a few days then Jeff secured the top spot again. Who's Top of the Pops now instead? ..
According to Forbes real time billionaire tracker (!) https://www.forbes.com/real-time-billionaires/#1ebcab9b3d78 is indeed still richest with Musk at second. Musk has just gone down by 7.1 billion whereas Bezos has gone up by 1.5 billion, thus allowing them to change places.
 
He's back to second richest? .. Elon Musk overtook him for a few days then Jeff secured the top spot again. Who's Top of the Pops now instead? ..
From looking at the 2 new cars on their driveway and the amount of stuff that keeps getting delivered to the family 3 doors down from me, I think it's them.
 
Ah but everyone is staying home and buying things from Amazon so Jeff Bezos is happy! He apaprently has a personal wealth of US$185.7 billion making him the second richest person in the world. This amount is 2,750,825 times the median U.S. household income

I know some billionaires give away a lot of their wealth, but if were me I don't think I could sleep at night even with half a billion in the bank, I'd just feel so guilty about it... Hell, a few million and I'd be well content!
 
Jeff Bezos is behind Blue Origin, one of the rival spaceship companies of SpaceX.
 
Great.

What's your evidence?

All evidence supporting this view is, currently, circumstantial.
Many though share charliebrown's suspicions that it is one hell of a coincidence that the ground zero for the viral outbreak is in close proximity to the Chinese biotech research facility in Wuhan.
 
... Many though share charliebrown's suspicions that it is one hell of a coincidence that the ground zero for the viral outbreak is in close proximity to the Chinese biotech research facility in Wuhan.

With any luck the WHO team investigation in Wuhan (currently in progress) will shed some light on the situation surrounding the virus' emergence as a human pathogen.
 
With any luck the WHO team investigation in Wuhan (currently in progress) will shed some light on the situation surrounding the virus' emergence as a human pathogen.

The CCP has delayed the WHO investigation for ample time to conceal any incriminating evidence, or to plant false evidence.
In any case, the WHO has a track record of appeasing the Chinese regime and it would be very surprising if this lapdog turns around and bites its master.
 
The CCP has delayed the WHO investigation for ample time to conceal any incriminating evidence, or to plant false evidence.
In any case, the WHO has a track record of appeasing the Chinese regime and it would be very surprising if this lapdog turns around and bites its master.
AND the WHO team is observing a 14 day quarantine period after telling the Chinese they're coming to look for evidence. Good luck finding anything the Chinese don't want you to find.
 
Yithian,

I have no evidence about the origin of the coronavirus, but the famous “ Bat Woman of Wuhan “, Shi Zhengli, has for years

studied SARS of coronavirus bat origin.

I ask you if the coronavirus came from a meat market one block from the Wuhan Lab, what are the odds that COVID started within shouting distance of the lab ?

That is a question for people who study coincidences.
 
Many though share charliebrown's suspicions that it is one hell of a coincidence that the ground zero for the viral outbreak is in close proximity to the Chinese biotech research facility in Wuhan.

Just like we in the lab thought it was interesting that the Novichok poisonings took place in ?Salisbury, with Dstl just down the road! :p

By the way, I am in no way suggesting that this was part of a conspiracy...
 
A senior medical science professional has published an essay condemning the American and other governments for making the pandemic worse through disinformation - especially anti-science rhetoric.
Anti-science movement set up US for worse pandemic, infectious disease expert says

The anti-science movement has set up the United States and the world up for a worse Covid-19 pandemic than otherwise would have been, infectious disease expert Dr. Peter Hotez argued Thursday.

"An anti-science disinformation campaign of unprecedented magnitude and led by both multinational corporations and some governments, especially the Russian and US Governments, fuels the pandemic," Hotez, dean for the National School for Tropical Medicine at the Baylor College of Medicine, wrote in the journal Plos Biology.

"Although President Trump did not win reelection and the new Biden administration has vowed to mount an evidence-based pandemic strategy, the anti-science pursuits of the Trump White House and Coronavirus Task Force have caused serious harm," Hotez wrote. ...

FULL STORY: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/29/health/anti-science-coronavirus-pandemic/index.html

PUBLISHED ESSAY:
Anti-science kills: From Soviet embrace of pseudoscience to accelerated attacks on US biomedicine
Peter J. Hotez
PLOS Biology: January 28, 2021
https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pbio.3001068

Full Article Accessible At:
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3001068
 
The fact remains that so many independent, non- aligned labs and institutes have now minutely examined the virus and its variants and not a one has found any evidence whatsoever of either artificial origin or manipulation.

Furthermore, the identified pattern of mutation that has resulted in the UK, South African and Brazil strains has followed expected, natural lines.

This does not preclude the escape from the lab theory, but I think it does put the whole bio-weapon argument to bed.
 
The fact remains that so many independent, non- aligned labs and institutes have now minutely examined the virus and its variants and not a one has found any evidence whatsoever of either artificial origin or manipulation.

Furthermore, the identified pattern of mutation that has resulted in the UK, South African and Brazil strains has followed expected, natural lines.

This does not preclude the escape from the lab theory, but I think it does put the whole bio-weapon argument to bed.
I dunno. What does a bio-engineered plague look like? What aspects of a virus would be tells that it was genetically sequenced in a lab?

I mean really, how many artificially created diseases are there to use as comparative samples?
 
I do wonder though, do we have other viruses that have spread to so many different species? Lions, tigers and minks, oh my.
 
I dunno. What does a bio-engineered plague look like? What aspects of a virus would be tells that it was genetically sequenced in a lab?

I mean really, how many artificially created diseases are there to use as comparative samples?
It doesn't need to be genetically sequenced though, that is why it would be hard to prove one way or another. We have already seen how the virus has mutated in humans. A lab can "naturally engineer" a more harmful coronavirus by passing in through a series of animal hosts, say ferrets (very close to mink..). Trying to detect that would be very difficult. That Wuhan lab could have had flocks of fevered futtrits but there would be no trace by the time the WHO team get there.
 
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