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Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

Lb8535 said:
So just to be clear, there is no evidence that you have found of the image actually being circulated initially fraudulently. I do wish that there were a method of turning off the social media of those people like the fake Mario who make up crap like this. Or at least get Twitter to take responsibility. At this point I think they could gather a large volunteer corps to assist.
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At face value Mario isn't the perp - he was the whistle-blower ...

Mario Fusco is the one who tweeted about the image on 28 December, advising folks the image was being circulated. The 27 December date overlaid on the image is apparently a Telegraph watermarked timestamp. The Telegraph message that Mario posted in his tweet therefore pre-dates Mario's tweet. If Mario's claim about the fake news message being distributed is itself the original hoax, he or someone with whom he conspired had to have created it the day before.

Because Telegraph is a private and relatively secure messaging medium there's no way to verify the 27 December message or its history unless you're part of the distribution network among whom it was distributed on 27 December or you obtain access to one such distributee's account.

I've not been able to locate any mention of this fake news item prior to 28 December, nor have I found anyone claiming it surfaced from any source other than Fusco's tweet.
 
I do see that he exists in more detail than you would expect from a Rumanian troll . I don't mean to dump on Mario, who may be a good guy, but my current position is to think the worst if there is no source given (I gather than Tlegraph cannot be considered a source.) If he did make it up, it's a hoot.
 
Lb8535 said:
I do see that he exists in more detail than you would expect from a Rumanian troll . I don't mean to dump on Mario, who may be a good guy, but my current position is to think the worst if there is no source given (I gather than Tlegraph cannot be considered a source.) If he did make it up, it's a hoot.
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Wow people, you've really dug into this. I feel a bit guilty because I just wanted to express that you can't even distinguish real foolishness from pretended or hoaxed foolishness nowadays.

Am I correct that even after your research we still don't know if it's just trolls impersonating 5g conspiracy theorists?

I got it from a Facebook post by a friend who is leftist and therefore follows alt-rightists closely. I cut off the identifying info.
 
This is not a valid example of inability to distinguish fake news from actual news, since the diagram that some idiot sent out really is a blueprint for something totally different. I've gotten this from people who know guitars on several forums. Did you really think the guitar people were lying about something that widely known? The issue for me is that someone should be responsible to backtrace the original lie. If we could put resources into this for a little time we could probably identify a large chunk of the people who think this is fun.
 
uair01 said:
... Am I correct that even after your research we still don't know if it's just trolls impersonating 5g conspiracy theorists?
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I think it's safe to say we still don't know WTF the initiator thought he / she was trying to express or accomplish. If the intent had been serious disinfo, it was a pretty damned lame attempt.
 
Lb8535 said:
This is not a valid example of inability to distinguish fake news from actual news, since the diagram that some idiot sent out really is a blueprint for something totally different. I've gotten this from people who know guitars on several forums. Did you really think the guitar people were lying about something that widely known? The issue for me is that someone should be responsible to backtrace the original lie. If we could put resources into this for a little time we could probably identify a large chunk of the people who think this is fun.
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Thanks. This is sooo difficult to formulate simply. My bad, I'll try again:
It's a correct fact that it's a guitar pedal schematic.
Then:
1. Was it circulated by someone who genuinely believed it was the 5g chip?
2. Was it circulated by someone who wanted to inject disinformation into the discourse? Why: For fun trolling? To create panic? To show that 5g believers are foolish?
3. Did people believe the disinformation and did they spread it? Or did they know it was disinformation and did they spread it anyway?

I guess we'll never know ...
 
uair01 said:
Thanks. This is sooo difficult to formulate simply. My bad, I'll try again:
It's a correct fact that it's a guitar pedal schematic.
Then:
1. Was it circulated by someone who genuinely believed it was the 5g chip?
2. Was it circulated by someone who wanted to inject disinformation into the discourse? Why: For fun trolling? To create panic? To show that 5g believers are foolish?
3. Did people believe the disinformation and did they spread it? Or did they know it was disinformation and did they spread it anyway?

I guess we'll never know ...
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Yeah lying about your enemies is one of the oldest tricks with disinformation. Was ANYONE ever gullible enough to believe this circuit was actually a 5g chip? Or was that all a lie?
 
marhawkman said:
Yeah lying about your enemies is one of the oldest tricks with disinformation. Was ANYONE ever gullible enough to believe this circuit was actually a 5g chip? Or was that all a lie?
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That's one of the peculiar aspects. Marco seems to be a real person but Enola says the post did not exist in the fantasy conspiracy world before Marco reposted it. You'd think it would show up. I understand undercutting the enemy, but honestly, this is a lot of work just for that. And it's no stupider material that others I have seen. And really off the wall. That's all the time I plan to spend on it.
 
Lb8535 said:
That's one of the peculiar aspects. Marco seems to be a real person but Enola says the post did not exist in the fantasy conspiracy world before Marco reposted it. You'd think it would show up. I understand undercutting the enemy, but honestly, this is a lot of work just for that. And it's no stupider material that others I have seen. And really off the wall. That's all the time I plan to spend on it.
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Getting a third party who's not part of the conspiracy to spread the news for you though? The peculiarity of this method is that the source is essentially untraceable. I think that's why the news websites have nothing but Marco's post... they have no other information... at all. This is because it's impossible to back trace without the cooperation of the people who forwarded the message. Also it's possible it'd only been passed around for a day before Marco went public with it.

I don't think it was actually a lot of work. take an image of a random bit of electric circuitry, photoshop on a few words, post on internet with a single sentence proclaiming what it is.... the trick is to avoid having it attributed to you. Choosing where to post it would take longer than making the image file.
 
Lb8535 said:
That's one of the peculiar aspects. Marco seems to be a real person but Enola says the post did not exist in the fantasy conspiracy world before Marco reposted it. ...
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No ... I didn't say it didn't exist ... I said the only place it was evident was in the private / encrypted messaging realm of Telegraph / Telegram. It could have been circulating in such private channels for who-knows-how-long.
 
EnolaGaia said:
No ... I didn't say it didn't exist ... I said the only place it was evident was in the private / encrypted messaging realm of Telegraph / Telegram. It could have been circulating in such private channels for who-knows-how-long.
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News update!
Mario Fusco on Twitter: "In the last days I've been contacted by a few journalists asking more details about this tweet, that became viral totally unexpectedly, at least for me. To one of them I sent a more comprehensive reply, that I decided to share also here, thinking that others could be interested. https://t.co/w5QLEy3Qsf" / Twitter
Hmmm Fusco has no idea IF anyone ever took it seriously. He didn't see it as something MEANT to be taken seriously though.
 
Flippin' eck, the Covid vaccine can turn you gay! I thought it was just so that Zuckerberg could ascertain your whereabouts at all points, or something to do with 5G but an ultra-Orthodox rabbi takes it further. Handily, the Indy calls it a bizarre and factually inaccurate claim. Phew, thought it might be true.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/covid-vaccine-rabbi-gay-b1788543.html

LGBT+ rights group Havruta joked in response to this that it was “currently gearing up to welcome our impending new members”. A nice response.
 
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cycleboy2 said:
Flippin' eck, the Covid vaccine can turn you gay! I thought it was just so that Zuckerberg could ascertain your whereabouts at all points, or something to do with 5G but an ultra-Orthodox rabbi takes it further. Handily, the Indy calls it a bizarre and factually inaccurate claim. Phew, thought it might be true.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/covid-vaccine-rabbi-gay-b1788543.html

LGBT+ rights group Havruta joked in response to this that it was “currently gearing up to welcome our impending new members”. A nice response.
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This is one of those things that smells like disinformation meant to distract people from real problems. which of course makes you wonder what and why....
 
Here's another one that feels like it's probably also a political propaganda piece.... in some way... not sure WHAT... but something.
Fired Florida Data Scientist Says She Will Turn Herself in for Arrest Sunday Night (msn.com)
Case facts:
1: She got fired from her official position last May She claims it was because she refused to falsify data. Proof? Why would there be proof?
2: She had been privately publishing her own findings of statistics, because she opposed the Florida govt's official position.
3: In December, someone covertly accessed the messaging system used by the Florida DoH and sent a mass-email encouraging DoH employees to "speak up"... IE disclose confidential information that would make the DoH look bad.
4: people suspected it was her and a FDLE warrant was signed to seize her computer and check for digital evidence she did it.
5: data found was used as a reason to file an arrest warrant for her, but not proof that she had illegally accessed the DoH messaging system or sent the message.

Observations:
This woman was incredibly vitriolic and the message that was sent to the DoH personnel matches her tone and behavior. She literally put in one of her tweets that she blames the Florida governor for "thousands" of Covid-19 deaths...
Also she says the raid warrant was "based on a lie"... what lie? It's not a lie that someone illegally accessed the Florida DoH messaging system.
Also, if she is innocent of that... who is guilty?
And of course she claims the charges in the arrest warrant are bogus too. although at one point she claims she doesn't actually know what the specific basis is.

My thoughts? you have no credibility as a whistleblower if the "bad guy" in your narrative doesn't care. She'd been doing her whistleblower routine for over 6 months after she got fired. I have to wonder how much people paid attention to her before this. It's one of those cases where what you don't know... is REALLY important. Who sent that message? What documents are the basis of the arrest warrant? What's the actual reason she got fired?
 
marhawkman said:
Here's another one that feels like it's probably also a political propaganda piece.... in some way... not sure WHAT... but something.
Fired Florida Data Scientist Says She Will Turn Herself in for Arrest Sunday Night (msn.com)
Case facts:
1: She got fired from her official position last May She claims it was because she refused to falsify data. Proof? Why would there be proof?
2: She had been privately publishing her own findings of statistics, because she opposed the Florida govt's official position.
3: In December, someone covertly accessed the messaging system used by the Florida DoH and sent a mass-email encouraging DoH employees to "speak up"... IE disclose confidential information that would make the DoH look bad.
4: people suspected it was her and a FDLE warrant was signed to seize her computer and check for digital evidence she did it.
5: data found was used as a reason to file an arrest warrant for her, but not proof that she had illegally accessed the DoH messaging system or sent the message.

Observations:
This woman was incredibly vitriolic and the message that was sent to the DoH personnel matches her tone and behavior. She literally put in one of her tweets that she blames the Florida governor for "thousands" of Covid-19 deaths...
Also she says the raid warrant was "based on a lie"... what lie? It's not a lie that someone illegally accessed the Florida DoH messaging system.
Also, if she is innocent of that... who is guilty?
And of course she claims the charges in the arrest warrant are bogus too. although at one point she claims she doesn't actually know what the specific basis is.

My thoughts? you have no credibility as a whistleblower if the "bad guy" in your narrative doesn't care. She'd been doing her whistleblower routine for over 6 months after she got fired. I have to wonder how much people paid attention to her before this. It's one of those cases where what you don't know... is REALLY important. Who sent that message? What documents are the basis of the arrest warrant? What's the actual reason she got fired?
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No rule that whistle blowers are nice people or otherwise virtuous. Considering that at one time FL said it was going to stop reporting statistics entirely she had a point. She was the only source, but no way to tell if the numbers were correct. And/or she may have been a chronic problem employee anyway.

So just some points: apparently there is no evidence on her computer that she sent the email. Who sent if if not her? Who knows. There are 21.5m people in Florida. I'm surprised the specialists can't trace it, frequently they can.

But they found something else on her computer that was illegal enough to pull her in. What was it? Who knows. Fraud, pornography, threats, breaking into other parts of the state computer system, endless possibilities.
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
ITV reports that Wuhan medics were told to lie to cover up the virus outbreak:
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-18...r-we-were-told-to-lie-about-covid-19-outbreak
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Why are they reporting on something that, if not factual, is completely predictable? Yeah, I know they're just to report 'the news' but, really ...
From what I understand, the Chinese government is, in effect, a dictatorship run by senior members of the Chinese Communist Party. They have a monumental population size and, administrative bureaucracy aside, they need the support of it's population to maintain their grip of power.
Now, instead of gaining public support by benevolence to the people they maintain support by fear of non-compliance. As such, they can never admit to fault or fallibility.
Wherever this virus came from, whether it's outbreak was accident or intention, the Chinese Government cannot afford to admit to anything, especially that their system might be at fault.
This denial of responsibility isn't for the credence of the international community. It's for consumption by it's own populace. If they don't believe their own government then they're not going to say so outright.
 
Lb8535 said:
But they found something else on her computer that was illegal enough to pull her in. What was it? Who knows. Fraud, pornography, threats, breaking into other parts of the state computer system, endless possibilities.
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And each possibility can be countered by the blanket-statement: "I was framed for SPEAKING THE TRUTH!" Regardless of the actual truth of the matter.
They had to have some basis to get a search warrant. Perhaps they didn't find what they expected and thought "We can't prosecute for X but she's bang to rights for Y!" Even if the whistleblowing was in legitimate public interest, this can't act as a 'Get Out of Jail Free' for any other crimes that may be exposed.
 
Stormkhan said:
And each possibility can be countered by the blanket-statement: "I was framed for SPEAKING THE TRUTH!" Regardless of the actual truth of the matter.
They had to have some basis to get a search warrant. Perhaps they didn't find what they expected and thought "We can't prosecute for X but she's bang to rights for Y!" Even if the whistleblowing was in legitimate public interest, this can't act as a 'Get Out of Jail Free' for any other crimes that may be exposed.
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That brings up an interesting point. Was her methodology as a "whistleblower" illegal in itself? How was she getting information? Was she being truthful?

Of course it also makes you wonder how and why they got the warrant to search her computer. Presumably they must have had some sort of evidence tying her to the illegal system access.
 
marhawkman said:
... Of course it also makes you wonder how and why they got the warrant to search her computer. Presumably they must have had some sort of evidence tying her to the illegal system access.
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The state emergency management system access during which the text message (not an email) was broadcast to circa 1,750 state employees was traced to an IP address associated with her home.

According to the affidavit by an investigator with the department, an unauthorized individual illegally accessed a state government emergency management system to send a group text message to government officials last month urging them to speak out about the coronavirus crisis.

"It's time to speak up before another 17,000 people are dead," the message said, according to the affidavit. "You know this is wrong. You don't have to be part of this. Be a hero. Speak out before it's too late."

Officials traced the message, which was sent on the afternoon of November 10 to about 1,750 recipients, to an IP address connected to Jones' house, the investigator wrote in the affidavit.
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/07/us/florida-search-warrant-raid-rebekah-jones-invs/index.html
 
Being a victim is a valuable asset.
Some might either victim blame - which is an abhorrent practice IMO - in order to divert attention or you can "embrace your victimhood", using it as a universal factor in supporting or publicising a claim. Equally abhorrent, in my mind.
In both situations, it diminishes the plight of real victims and it diminishes us as humans because it transfers guilt for unacceptable situations from the transgressor to the transgressed.
Scream "Freedom of speech!" all you want, you are still allowed to scream that in your own country unlike many other nations. It occurs to me that several nations, in losing their sense of proportion, have become spoiled brats!
*ahem*
Back to thread ...
 
Fire breaks out at Indian vaccine plant. :( Some people are saying 'sabotage'.
 
According to this Associated Press report Chinese authorities are ramping up promotion of fringe and conspiracy theories to deflect criticism of China's initial COVID response, the currently available Chinese vaccine and the evolving narratives for explaining where and how COVID-19 originated and spread.
China pushes fringe theories on pandemic origins, virus

Chinese state media have played up questions about Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine and whether it could be lethal to the very old. A government spokesperson suggests the coronavirus could have emerged from a U.S. military lab.

As the ruling Communist Party faces growing questioning about China’s vaccines and renewed criticism of its early COVID response, it is hitting back by encouraging fringe theories that some experts say could cause harm.

State media and officials are sowing doubts about Western vaccines and the origin of the coronavirus in an apparent bid to deflect the attacks. Both issues are in the spotlight because of the ongoing rollout of vaccines globally and the recent arrival of a WHO team in Wuhan, China, to investigate the origins of the virus. ...

While fringe theories may raise eyebrows overseas, the efforts also target a more receptive domestic audience. The social media hashtag “American’s Ft. Detrick,” started by the Communist Youth League, was viewed at least 1.4 billion times last week after a Foreign Ministry spokesperson called for a WHO investigation of the biological weapons lab in Maryland.

“It’s purpose is to shift the blame from mishandling by (the) Chinese government in the pandemic’s early days to conspiracy by the U.S.,” said Fang Shimin, a now-U.S.-based writer known for exposing faked degrees and other fraud in Chinese science. “The tactic is quite successful because of widespread anti-American sentiment in China.” ...
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FULL STORY: https://apnews.com/article/pandemic...ndemic-wuhan-65c6958bb2d8d22d811bb3d0c90f7418
 
"That's when the security guards arrives and started to forcibly remove him.
Mr Leigh shouted: "I'm an officer of the court. I'm putting you on notice, if you put one hand on me and touch me I'll be doing you for assault."

Let's unpack this.

Was Leigh an 'officer of the court', as he claimed? It might be believable he had such a job but the question is, was he acting in such capacity?
Doesn't look like it. His claim, for want of a better term, is fraudulent. It's like someone yelling they're an undercover police officer, expecting people to treat them as such, then, as they've presented no evidence at the time, the people don't accept they're an undercover police officer.

He declares he'll "be doing you for assault" and, by Jove, he could. Staff have had to physically restrain him. Technically, assault is unwanted and unauthorised physical contact. He has a right to proceed ... but will his case have merit to enter Magistrate court? Any 'brief' would tell him to calm down and be realistic. Soz but, in reality, nah mate. There's plenty of recorded evidence, on both sides, to show that he was being refused admittance, that he was warned to go and, really, any physical actions taken against him were proportionate. Note: his potentially fraudulent claim to be acting as "an officer of the court" would go against him.

"However, the patient and Leigh maintained that they wanted to leave, and Leigh began to rant about coronavirus conspiracy theories.
Eventually, he was hauled out by the security guards.

Now it must be pointed out that there's no indication that Leigh (the perpetrator) is related to the patient. The patient might want to leave, and there must be legal avenues for this event, which include the consent of his relations. The patient sounded like he wanted to go.
Who the feck wouldn't want to go home? But there should be, and probably is, a legal standing and obligation for the hospital to restrain the patient.
Example: A patient is found to have Ebola. They feel fine. The hospital says "we have to keep you safe, from others and yourself." The patient says "I don't care! You're lying! I want to leave and you can't stop me!"
Oh, yes they can. Before COV-19 and before. So, that's done with the patient "wanting to go home".
Now Leigh.
Yup. He's absolutely right.
Unless it is proved that he has the virus then he is a free agent. He can leave at any time. Absolutely.
He will, of course, be reported to the police for his actions (unrelated to Covid-19 regulations), the evidence of CCTV, and staff testimony. He's, shall we say, on the radar. Criminal prosecution will follow, urban warrior that he feels he is or not.
 
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When the In-House GP was back in his hospital days, he would occasionally come home grumbling about a patient discharging themselves, especially when he knew that they'd be back in the next day or so with exactly the same issue...
 
Lb8535 said:
In the US, any patient who is conscious and coherent and has not signed an assignment of responsibility to a proxy can leave the hospital (assuming they can walk) if he signs a release of "discharge against the advice of a physician. " I suppose a judge could issue a requirement that they be relieved of this right, and would if public health were at stake.
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I discharged myself after I had that TIA last May, something I would have never done in the past but I didn't want to hang out over night at the Norfolk & Norwich hospital when this virus was also just kicking off. I went back the next day for a brain scan. I asked the Mrs so tell Skargy what was going on on the off chance I was about to die or something because you never know. Then she could have told you all.
 
Lb8535 said:
In the US, any patient who is conscious and coherent and has not signed an assignment of responsibility to a proxy can leave the hospital (assuming they can walk) if he signs a release of "discharge against the advice of a physician. " I suppose a judge could issue a requirement that they be relieved of this right, and would if public health were at stake.
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It's more to do with mental capacity rather than just being conscious and coherent. You can be both these things but still, be a danger to yourself or others. In this case, though that's a different topic.

The overriding issue here is this is no longer the treatment of an individual but a public health concern as the patient leaving will put the local population at risk. The onus has thus shifted from the clinician and treatment team to the public health system. The patient can lose some of their autonomy during this sort of situation if they are a danger to others. Public Health officials do have the necessary regulations to protect the population and if that means confining the patient to the hospital then so be it.

The visitor that instigated all this is on shaky ground. He was not family, had breached health and safety rules, and had himself become a danger to others. The hospital was well within its rights to remove him and have him arrested.
 
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