Poltergeist Causation

[Robbrent]

Following on from a few cases discussed on here I wonder if there are a set of circumstances when put together you get a Poltergeist and I wonder if all the investigations anyone has come up with any

I know it is oft said that it's brought on by frustrated adolescents but if this was the case would not schools be very badly effected?

T C Lethbridge notices that lots of supernatural happenings especially as he call them ghouls occurred near running water, but could the underlying geology have some effects?

 

[catseye]

I know it is oft said that it's brought on by frustrated adolescents but if this was the case would not schools be very badly effected?

That's an interesting point. I know in poltergeist cases, the 'polt' is often said to follow one particular individual, sometimes even to another house or location, but are there any stories of them going to school with their victim?

 

[maximus otter]

I know it is oft said that it's brought on by frustrated adolescents but if this was the case would not schools be very badly effected?

How easy would it be to distinguish poltergeist activity from the “background noise” of a modern school environment?

maximus otter

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

How easy would it be to distinguish poltergeist activity from the “background noise” of a modern school environment?

maximus otter

I am guessing you are a poltergeist virgin. Just wait

 

[Robbrent]

How easy would it be to distinguish poltergeist activity from the “background noise” of a modern school environment?

maximus otter

I think chairs and desks floating about the classroom would give it away

 

[escargot]

We have threads on poltergeists.

Years ago the then-adolescent Escet and I were having a heated argument when a framed picture SHOT off the wall beside him and landed at his feet.
I shouted 'LOOK what you've made me do NOW!'

We both fell silent, then I made us a nice cup of tea.

Looking back, it was more likely Escet's unconscious doing than mine.

 

[SimonBurchell]

The most touted explanation is RSPK (Recurrent Spontaneous PsychoKinesis), i.e. explaining an unknown with an unknown. However, it is useful to understand the ideological background to this theory, which was developed when Parapsychology was making a concerted effort to be recognised as a respectable science - and the way to do this was to remove any hint of discarnate entities (in other words, by taking a strictly materialist approach). Therefore you discard all theories involving ghosts, spirits, demons, otherdimensional entities etc. etc., and bring it back to the human actors. Humans get stressed, maybe the stress overflows and interacts in unknown ways with the environment as a kind of subconscious pressure valve.

There are big problems with this theory. Many poltergeist studies try to separate poltergeists from hauntings as separate subjects, but there is actually enormous overlap, and some poltergeist cases with no obvious human focus, poltergeists that are strongly associated with long-running hauntings etc. etc.

My own theory, based on broad reading of paranormal subjects, some personal experience, and conversations with friends who have had paranormal experiences, is an expansion of Joe Fisher's "psychic vampire" theory as related in his excellent book The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts. Fisher's tragic story took him to investigating mediumistic communications from communicators claiming to be spirits of the dead - but the more he investigated, the more he came to the conclusion that the mysterious communicators were lying. He came to believe that the communicators were feeding off the strong emotions being generated in the people seeking communication with the deceased. I have experienced that paranormal events can strengthen if you pay too much attention and your fear builds up. I have a friend who started experiencing a haunting with associated low-level poltergeistery, and she realised that the more afraid her family was of an occurrence, the stronger the phenomena would become. She made the offhand comment "They feed on fear, so we started to ignore it and it went away."

I think poltergeists latch on to someone experiencing strong emotion, and feed. They generate phenomena designed to frighten the witnesses, and as the witnesses become more and more terrified, the poltergeist is able to generate ever stronger phenomena. I suspect there are many cases were polt phenomena start at a low level, and people dismiss it as mice or rats, and it goes no further. The would-be poltergeist entity wanders off to try to find someone else. My theory is as good as anyone else's. We really don't know, and we probably never will.

 

[Floyd]

We have threads on poltergeists.

Years ago the then-adolescent Escet and I were having a heated argument when a framed picture SHOT off the wall beside him and landed at his feet.
I shouted 'LOOK what you've made me do NOW!'

We both fell silent, then I made us a nice cup of tea.

Looking back, it was more likely Escet's unconscious doing than mine.

Not as good as your story, but when I was a teenager I was very angry over something one evening- I mean fuming, and the bedroom light started crackling and flickering (which could have just been coincidence of course).

 

[Robbrent]

The most touted explanation is RSPK (Recurrent Spontaneous PsychoKinesis), i.e. explaining an unknown with an unknown. However, it is useful to understand the ideological background to this theory, which was developed when Parapsychology was making a concerted effort to be recognised as a respectable science - and the way to do this was to remove any hint of discarnate entities (in other words, by taking a strictly materialist approach). Therefore you discard all theories involving ghosts, spirits, demons, otherdimensional entities etc. etc., and bring it back to the human actors. Humans get stressed, maybe the stress overflows and interacts in unknown ways with the environment as a kind of subconscious pressure valve.

There are big problems with this theory. Many poltergeist studies try to separate poltergeists from hauntings as separate subjects, but there is actually enormous overlap, and some poltergeist cases with no obvious human focus, poltergeists that are strongly associated with long-running hauntings etc. etc.

My own theory, based on broad reading of paranormal subjects, some personal experience, and conversations with friends who have had paranormal experiences, is an expansion of Joe Fisher's "psychic vampire" theory as related in his excellent book The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts. Fisher's tragic story took him to investigating mediumistic communications from communicators claiming to be spirits of the dead - but the more he investigated, the more he came to the conclusion that the mysterious communicators were lying. He came to believe that the communicators were feeding of the strong emotions being generated in the people seeking communication with the deceased. I have experienced that paranormal events can strengthen if you pay too much attention and your fear builds up. I have a friend who started experiencing a haunting with associated low-level poltergeistery, and she realised that the more afraid her family was of an occurrence, the stronger the phenomena would become. She made the offhand comment "They feed on fear, so we started to ignore it and it went away."

I think poltergeists latch on to someone experiencing strong emotion, and feed. They generate phenomena designed to frighten the witnesses, and as the witnesses become more and more terrified, the poltergeist is able to generate ever stronger phenomena. I suspect there are many cases were polt phenomena start at a low level, and people dismiss it as mice or rats, and it goes no further. The would-be poltergeist entity wanders off to try to find someone else. My theory is as good as anyone else's. We really don't know, and we probably never will.

I think Joe Fisher should be required reading for anyone dabbling with the occult and communication with the dead, of course our forbearers knew this and that's why they took such elaborate precautions and rituals before even attempting it.

My thinking is that in many cases a complex set of circumstances gives whatever entity the energy, it could be running water a geological condition coupled with a troubled adolescent ticks all the boxes and this gives them the required energy, I have never really believed that it was RSPK it sounds like a distinctively desperate explanation

Perhaps these entities are always there but just can't summon up enough energy to make themselves known, Playfairs Brazilian adventures are a good read because it's well known over there (and in Africa) that its quite possible for a skilled magician to set one loose on an unsuspecting enemy

 

[Frideswide]

I think Joe Fisher should be required reading for anyone dabbling with the occult and communication with the dead, of course our forbearers knew this and that's why they took such elaborate precautions and rituals before even attempting it.

It is an excellent book in more than one way.

 

[escargot]

"They feed on fear, so we started to ignore it and it went away."

Yup, sounds right.
Techy and I would absolutely love to be haunted to the middle of next week an' back.
It's not going to happen precisely because we'd enjoy it so much.

 

[Eponastill]

That's an interesting point. I know in poltergeist cases, the 'polt' is often said to follow one particular individual, sometimes even to another house or location, but are there any stories of them going to school with their victim?

Two famous and well-attested ones would be Matthew Manning https://archive.org/details/linkmatthewmanni00mann
and Virginia Campbell (Sauchie) https://archive.org/details/galleryofghostsa0000mack/page/78

 

[Robbrent]

Two famous and well-attested ones would be Matthew Manning https://archive.org/details/linkmatthewmanni00mann
and Virginia Campbell (Sauchie) https://archive.org/details/galleryofghostsa0000mack/page/78

But it's an exception rather than the rule

Like I said previously if it was RSPK it would be a very common occurrence in schools across the world

I suspect that this (and much Paranormal Phenomena) is linked to the land or at least it gets it's energy from the land, perhaps certain places leak energy and then when someone appears who also leaks energy, it gives it sufficient power

It's just one of those curious things that intrigue me

 

[Eponastill]

I suspect that this (and much Paranormal Phenomena) is linked to the land or at least it gets it's energy from the land, perhaps certain places leak energy and then when someone appears who also leaks energy, it gives it sufficient power

That is a very interesting idea. I very much like the thought of inherently special spots in the landscape (oo let's pop a stone circle here) or the thought of energy lines twisting their way round gaia. I'm certainly of an ecological mind and feel everything is connected to everything else.

But why then would poltergeists be such domestic creatures (like boggarts and brownies)? They're primarily associated with houses and farms and so on. (I mean this is assuming that poltergeists are real and not just people Mucking About. Which on balance... well I think there must be something in it occasionally. Or that's what I'd like to believe anyway .

I suppose you can't go banging about outside so effectively. But you could certainly throw objects about. I think I have read about people wandering along lanes / across fields or whatever and getting a shower of stones. But that's edging off into other fortean territory (fish falls and sasquatches come to mind).

(that's just me vaguely airing my mind rhetorically)

You make a good point about the school thing, you'd think if it affected teenagers mostly, you'd hear about them experiencing stuff at school. But maybe a) if things are going on you are encouraged to stay at home or b) if you are messing about you're more likely to be caught or c) lots of times the stories are about things happening at night when you're not at school or... any number of other possibilities I guess

 

[SimonBurchell]

That is a very interesting idea. I very much like the thought of inherently special spots in the landscape (oo let's pop a stone circle here) or the thought of energy lines twisting their way round gaia. I'm certainly of an ecological mind and feel everything is connected to everything else.

But why then would poltergeists be such domestic creatures (like boggarts and brownies)? They're primarily associated with houses and farms and so on. (I mean this is assuming that poltergeists are real and not just people Mucking About. Which on balance... well I think there must be something in it occasionally. Or that's what I'd like to believe anyway .

I suppose you can't go banging about outside so effectively. But you could certainly throw objects about. I think I have read about people wandering along lanes / across fields or whatever and getting a shower of stones. But that's edging off into other fortean territory (fish falls and sasquatches come to mind).

(that's just me vaguely airing my mind rhetorically)

You make a good point about the school thing, you'd think if it affected teenagers mostly, you'd hear about them experiencing stuff at school. But maybe a) if things are going on you are encouraged to stay at home or b) if you are messing about you're more likely to be caught or c) lots of times the stories are about things happening at night when you're not at school or... any number of other possibilities I guess

Where The Footprints End (in 2 volumes) by Joshua Cutchin and Timothy Renner is an excellent read, dedicated to the overlap between bigfoot and other areas of forteana. It makes a valid point that a lot of twisted tree structures (bigfoot teepees), knocking noises and hurled branches and stones are only assumed to be bigfoot, and that there is usually no bigfoot sighting involved. If equivalent phenomena occurred in a home it would be - objects rearranged, knocking noises, and objects being thrown about... which sounds like a poltergeist. They make the interesting point that these phenomena could be an outdoor manifestation of poltergeist phenomena.

 

[Robbrent]

That is a very interesting idea. I very much like the thought of inherently special spots in the landscape (oo let's pop a stone circle here) or the thought of energy lines twisting their way round gaia. I'm certainly of an ecological mind and feel everything is connected to everything else.

But why then would poltergeists be such domestic creatures (like boggarts and brownies)? They're primarily associated with houses and farms and so on. (I mean this is assuming that poltergeists are real and not just people Mucking About. Which on balance... well I think there must be something in it occasionally. Or that's what I'd like to believe anyway .

I suppose you can't go banging about outside so effectively. But you could certainly throw objects about. I think I have read about people wandering along lanes / across fields or whatever and getting a shower of stones. But that's edging off into other fortean territory (fish falls and sasquatches come to mind).

(that's just me vaguely airing my mind rhetorically)

You make a good point about the school thing, you'd think if it affected teenagers mostly, you'd hear about them experiencing stuff at school. But maybe a) if things are going on you are encouraged to stay at home or b) if you are messing about you're more likely to be caught or c) lots of times the stories are about things happening at night when you're not at school or... any number of other possibilities I guess

A house just happens to be in a particular place, over a stream or a particular rock type?

Another thing to note that whilst being destructive they are quite harmless very few injuries are caused by them, they just seem to be like naughty (but very disturbed) children or even animalistic, even in the rare cases when someone has claimed communication with a poltergeist, it rarely or ever makes much sense or tells the truth (perhaps they don't know themselves?) perhaps they are just classic nature sprits

To my my mind their is a poltergeist equation, but it's finely balanced, take away one part and the phenomena weakens or disappears

Also interesting is that some UFO encounters are accompanied by classic poltergeist phenomena

 

[Eponastill]

Where The Footprints End (in 2 volumes) by Joshua Cutchin and Timothy Renner is an excellent read, dedicated to the overlap between bigfoot and other areas of forteana. It makes a valid point that a lot of twisted tree structures (bigfoot teepees), knocking noises and hurled branches and stones are only assumed to be bigfoot, and that there is usually no bigfoot sighting involved. If equivalent phenomena occurred in a home it would be - objects rearranged, knocking noises, and objects being thrown about... which sounds like a poltergeist. They make the interesting point that these phenomena could be an outdoor manifestation of poltergeist phenomena.

aha I have indeed spent my hard-earned cash on those books already! I keep meaning to write to Wes Germer of Sasquatch Chronicles about poltergeist overlaps that occur to me when listening to his programme. He's had the authors on the podcast (if you don't know... which you probably do

A house just happens to be in a particular place, over a stream or a particular rock type?

Another thing to note that whilst being destructive they are quite harmless very few injuries are caused by them, they just seem to be like naughty (but very disturbed) children or even animalistic, even in the rare cases when someone has claimed communication with a poltergeist, it rarely or ever makes much sense or tells the truth (perhaps they don't know themselves?) perhaps they are just classic nature sprits

To my my mind their is a poltergeist equation, but it's finely balanced, take away one part and the phenomena weakens or disappears

Also interesting is that some UFO encounters are accompanied by classic poltergeist phenomena

That brings to my mind dowsing and people detecting 'blind springs' whatever those might really be. Soon, soon, I am going to get out there and give it a try (bolstered by my discovery that my grandfather was a dab hand at finding water with a hazel rod). Whatever it is. I'm sure hard-nosed sceptics would say it's all nonsense. But if we allow there's something in it, I feel there ought to be something about a shared consciousness in it. That you're tapping into information that's out there already. (connections with other fortean things like remote viewing and esp come to mind). And I am with you on the 'nature spirit' thing... that's kind of like a disembodied (well, non-bodied, not disembodied) consciousness connected with certain places or natural things isn't it.

Yes and the ufo thing has similar phenomena round the edges too doesn't it. Fairies and lights... sasquatches and lights... It's like all these Weird Things are in a Venn Diagram from your maths class and they all share features, but the core features identify the category we pop things into. Hence your mention above Simon of the overlaps between poltergeists and haunts, which seem more than usual for two Fortean things.

Thank god I have the fortean forums to air my socially unacceptable views haha. Thank you

 

[Robbrent]

aha I have indeed spent my hard-earned cash on those books already! I keep meaning to write to Wes Germer of Sasquatch Chronicles about poltergeist overlaps that occur to me when listening to his programme. He's had the authors on the podcast (if you don't know... which you probably do

That brings to my mind dowsing and people detecting 'blind springs' whatever those might really be. Soon, soon, I am going to get out there and give it a try (bolstered by my discovery that my grandfather was a dab hand at finding water with a hazel rod). Whatever it is. I'm sure hard-nosed sceptics would say it's all nonsense. But if we allow there's something in it, I feel there ought to be something about a shared consciousness in it. That you're tapping into information that's out there already. (connections with other fortean things like remote viewing and esp come to mind). And I am with you on the 'nature spirit' thing... that's kind of like a disembodied (well, non-bodied, not disembodied) consciousness connected with certain places or natural things isn't it.

Yes and the ufo thing has similar phenomena round the edges too doesn't it. Fairies and lights... sasquatches and lights... It's like all these Weird Things are in a Venn Diagram from your maths class and they all share features, but the core features identify the category we pop things into. Hence your mention above Simon of the overlaps between poltergeists and haunts, which seem more than usual for two Fortean things.

Thank god I have the fortean forums to air my socially unacceptable views haha. Thank you

I think you are onto something with the dowsing, I happen to think that most paranormal phenomena is connected anyway , from Fairies to UFO's that other world seems to live parallelly with our own, and on occasions it bumps into ours

 

[Paul_Exeter]

Some really interesting thoughts.

Certainly the commonly-held belief that teenagers - and especially girls going through puberty - are central to the phenomenon ignores some well documented cases in which that factor was absent (the South Wales mower repair shop case for example) and as mentioned above, UFO cases.

The Battersea poltergeist [https://www.historyextra.com/period...anormal-cold-cases-the-battersea-poltergeist/] did involve a teenage girl and this polt did allegedly follow her to school and a tv studio, although the great majority of activity happened within the house. But then like some other cases the whole affair started to tie itself in knots with frankly unbelievable reported levels of activity (and yet not a single photograph) and then some rather convoluted story about a young French prince.

Likewise, the Enfield poltergeist had a strong start but then also became a bit of a pantomime in the end, with the girl grinning for the camera as she 'manifested' the dead man's voice. Also, there were four children, so what were the other two doing whist Janet and Margaret were downstairs with mum and the investigators? Perhaps hiding out of sight at the top of the the stairs and throwing down objects? These other two children are rarely mentioned but their very existence opens up the possibility of childish hoaxing. Moreover the evidence from the people in the street who claim that one of the girls was levitating has to take into account the limited view and the fact there were three other children who might have been involved (for example, you can lift someone up horizontally by lying on your back, putting both feet in the small of their back and using the strength of your legs).

Both cases were also investigated by people who wanted to believe in life after death and so inherently biased. Also, I've read some pretty thin excuses for why Grosse and co didn't have film cameras with them in the late-1970s, even some grainy cine film of the activity would have bolstered the case immensely. However, both cases were quite convincing in the earlier stages

 

[Frideswide]

A house just happens to be in a particular place, over a stream or a particular rock type?

Lethbridge!

 

[charliebrown]

I can only talk from experience.

My daughters got their periods on the early side of what is thought to be average age, and estrogen stimulates brain emotion.

In a quiet way, weird stuff would happen like crooked pictures on the wall, screws falling out of furniture, watches would disappear and then appear, find serving wear out of the drawer in the kitchen first thing in the morning.

Simple things, nothing dramatic.

 

[brownmane]

My first house had some activity that may be described as poltergeist activity, though I'm not really familiar with what that entails.

It centred around my husband who had no interest nor knowledge of paranormal topics.

He had things (only his, such as safety glasses, a salt shaker that he'd set down and disappeared) go missing and never found. Only two of us living in a twelve by twenty-four rowhouse.

Our basement light, which was at the bottom of the stairs, which turned off/on with a pull chain, would be on when neither of us were there. There were two lights, one switch at top of the stairs for one light and the second with pull chain in the basement.

We had a school walkway directly across from our house and we would be coming home after a walk and the light would be on.

It was not possible to not know if you left it on because you had to switch it off before coming upstairs into the kitchen, and then you turned around to turn the other light off at the top of the stairs.

There was a noise that sounded like a quarter coin rolling across the kitchen floor, diagonally from the basement doorway to the back door.

There was a sound like a rocking chair rocking on bare wood floor (our floors were wood). Though my husband said that it was the neighbours drawing a clock chain, which we would occasionally hear, this sound was not in the same spot.

A neighbour on the opposite side who I met once and moved shortly after, told me of items disappearing and reappearing in her house. This was told to me shortly after we'd moved in and I didn't know how much to believe her, but the short story she told me, did match with how we lost things.

I have mentioned somewhere on another thread about our oven being turned off after we'd put some dinner in to cook. Both of us were sat at the table chatting, just waiting for the dinner to be cooked, and I opened the oven to check and saw that the oven dial was "off". I stated how dumb we were that we didn't turn the oven on. However, because the thermostat didn't work, we had an oven thermometer in it. The thermometer read 120F so it had been on.

The activity only seemed to occur between December to February with nothing in between.

 

[charliebrown]

The poltergeist would bother my older daughter once every so many years like door bell ringings, things out of place or missing then found, footsteps sounds, and of course lights that should be off that come in.

We named him or her “ Ralph “.

 

[Salmonellus]

Charles Fort's best book, IMHO, was 'Wild Talents'. He goes into a lot of cases that we would now classify as poltergeists, and comes down fairly solidly on the side of these phenomena being generated by people who have unresolved desires for something, but are blocked from carrying out those desires in ordinary life.

One case that I recall from the book was of recurrent spontaneous fires starting in a household. The maid was blamed as she was known to be resentful and unhappy. Her motive was enough for the rationalists - clearly the maid did it! The fact that there was no way she could have started the fires by any ordinary mechanism was conveniently overlooked.

Fort's conclusion - yes, the maid did it - but she didn't do it by any ordinary means.

'Wild Talents' is the most coherent and logically argued of any of Fort's books, and I recommend it highly.

 

[Robbrent]

Lethbridge!

The very man!

He was on to something with his theories

 

[Robbrent]

Some really interesting thoughts.

Certainly the commonly-held belief that teenagers - and especially girls going through puberty - are central to the phenomenon ignores some well documented cases in which that factor was absent (the South Wales mower repair shop case for example) and as mentioned above, UFO cases.

The Battersea poltergeist [https://www.historyextra.com/period...anormal-cold-cases-the-battersea-poltergeist/] did involve a teenage girl and this polt did allegedly follow her to school and a tv studio, although the great majority of activity happened within the house. But then like some other cases the whole affair started to tie itself in knots with frankly unbelievable reported levels of activity (and yet not a single photograph) and then some rather convoluted story about a young French prince.

Likewise, the Enfield poltergeist had a strong start but then also became a bit of a pantomime in the end, with the girl grinning for the camera as she 'manifested' the dead man's voice. Also, there were four children, so what were the other two doing whist Janet and Margaret were downstairs with mum and the investigators? Perhaps hiding out of sight at the top of the the stairs and throwing down objects? These other two children are rarely mentioned but their very existence opens up the possibility of childish hoaxing. Moreover the evidence from the people in the street who claim that one of the girls was levitating has to take into account the limited view and the fact there were three other children who might have been involved (for example, you can lift someone up horizontally by lying on your back, putting both feet in the small of their back and using the strength of your legs).

Both cases were also investigated by people who wanted to believe in life after death and so inherently biased. Also, I've read some pretty thin excuses for why Grosse and co didn't have film cameras with them in the late-1970s, even some grainy cine film of the activity would have bolstered the case immensely. However, both cases were quite convincing in the earlier stages

I think it's all about the energy available, puberty is not a static state and as it goes on I guess the amount of energy available weakens, but if
there is some hidden source of energy like a stream or particular rock type perhaps this supplements it

 

[catseye]

I think it's all about the energy available, puberty is not a static state and as it goes on I guess the amount of energy available weakens, but if
there is some hidden source of energy like a stream or particular rock type perhaps this supplements it

Unless all schools are carefully designed to be absolute Farraday cages for paranormal activity, then wouldn't the sheer volume of hormones, burgeoning sexuality, repression and discipline cause them to be hotbeds of poltergeist phenomina?

 

[Robbrent]

Unless all schools are carefully designed to be absolute Farraday cages for paranormal activity, then wouldn't the sheer volume of hormones, burgeoning sexuality, repression and discipline cause them to be hotbeds of poltergeist phenomina?

I've made this point before, they would be dangerous places, there must be a rare set of circumstances that causes an out break, and to my mind it must be the underlying geology and physical surroundings, perhaps some people leak energy or are so full of energy it overflows

 

[charliebrown]

Our local schools have “ zero tolerance policy “ which means if the behavior is bad enough you get kicked out of that school, and that makes the kids do the right thing.

But my 8th grade granddaughter tells that privately among themselves everyone’s emotions are in full display.

 

[JahaRa]

The first time I ever encountered what seemed to be poltergeist activity was in the 70's when I rented a hovel in Grovetown, GA. It was an old house that had been made in to two aparments. I had the smaller side with one bedroom and the original kitchen. The other side had two bedrooms and a back porch. The other side was empty when I moved in and some of my army buddies had shared it (3 guys) for a while, and before that 2 of them had shared the side I moved in to. They told me to keep the living room chair facing away from the hall because there was always "someone" like a ghost peeking in from the hall.

At first I rearranged the furniture and I would sit in the chair and read but did feel that someone was looking at me and I would look up to see a shadow move away from the hall door. Very wierd and I just ignored it. Then another friend came to visit and he came in, walked around and then said I can't come to this house, there is an entity here. If we visit you will have to come see me. I still wasn't bothered.

Then someone moved in to the apartment on the other side and it seemed like all hell broke loose. It was a crazy woman with a 10 month old baby. She was in the army and her mother took care of the baby when she wasn't home. Usually the mother came to the apartment but after a couple of weeks the mother said she wouldn't come back so the woman had to take the baby to her mother's. When I was home I would hear the same walking down the hall, stubling on some furniture and walking back the other way over and over. Only when that woman wasn't home. She said she heard noises when in my apartment when I wasn't home. She claimed all kinds of things, her knick knacks getting moved etc. but I am not sure. At night someone would be standing at the end of my bed. I would turn the light on and no one was there. The dog got where she would not sleep anywhere except on the bed with me under the covers and she would shake and growl often. Eventually I moved back to the barracks and found a home for my dog.

I only occassionally had weird things dissapear and then reappear in some weird place, like the car keys in the freezer, but I had kids and who knows why kids do some stuff.

Then as a grandmother taking care of my mother and my grandchildren I had the weirdest experience and nothing has happened to compare. My parents divorced after 37 years of marriage. My dad lived elsewhere and my mother lived in the house we grew up in. My dad had remodeled the kitchen in the 80's making the cabinets himself. I was baking cookies with my grandson and I opened a cabinet to put the baking powder and baking soda back. After I closed the cupboard door and turned my back on that cabinet to go to the counter where the cookie bowl was the door flew open and all the spices (in small cans and jars) flew out and pummeled me in the back and head. My grandson was facing the cabinet and he had a look of shock on his face. I cleaned it up and thought it was weird and could not explain it, but let it go. Then my brother told me our dad had been taken to a rehab center by cops serving a judges warrant. He had been having too many DWI/DUI and causing fights with the neighbors. Some company had gotten a court order to take care of his finances and talked my brother in to signing a paper to commit him. When I next spoke with my dad months later he blamed for all of it and I found out that the day I had my weird experience is the day the police came to his door to get him. He has always heard voices, and been a little crazy. I wonder if he was the poltergeist in that incident.

There is no way to really study phenomena like this unless you ackowledge that our conscioussness does not reside in our brain, or that we are more than the sum of our physical parts.

The first incidents I mentioned I always thought it was some ghost and that is what everyone who experienced it thought. The second one was what I would consider actual poltergeist activity which I don't think is ghosts.