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Frauds, Scams & Cons (General; Miscellaneous)

I watched the show 'Holiday Love Rats' on YouTube the other day (I know, I know, but I was at a loose end...).

I found myself horribly torn. Some of the cases featured on there weren't 'Love Rats' at all, I'm thinking of the sixteen year old who became enamoured of a flirty Turkish waiter and went back to Turkey to live with him, whereupon he behaved badly and they split up. I don't think he was particularly a 'Love Rat' because he wasn't getting anything out of it, no visa, and no desire to come to the UK. Ok, he got a Scottish girlfriend, but that was all.

And some of the other cases seemed almost designed to make us think 'what a stupid woman'. Pictures of a sixty-plus woman, bright red with sunburn in an unflattering dress, with a twenty year old Gambian man hanging on her arm, about to get married...

It was very easy to think 'that could never happen to me.' Too easy, actually.
 
It's interesting to note that 'love rats' tend to be parasitical young men, exploiting women.
Older men who take on younger foreign brides are considered to be 'dirty old men'.
Both depend on the description of the relationship, rather than the reality.
History has shown the woman having little independent agency unless linked to a man, and pressure on women to 'latch on' to a man still exists. It seems to me that the media is trying to perpetuate this.
 
Stormkhan said:
It's interesting to note that 'love rats' tend to be parasitical young men, exploiting women.
Older men who take on younger foreign brides are considered to be 'dirty old men'.
Both depend on the description of the relationship, rather than the reality.
History has shown the woman having little independent agency unless linked to a man, and pressure on women to 'latch on' to a man still exists. It seems to me that the media is trying to perpetuate this.
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That's interesting you should say that. The 'Love Rats' in the programme I watched were all men, but I wonder if that was anything to do with men being less keen to come forward and admit that they'd been 'had' by a gorgeous young woman who came to the UK on a married visa and then vanished into the ether, with Indefinite Right to Remain in her hand?

It was uncomfortable viewing though. The women all reported being pursued and wooed by the men - one of them actively didn't want to marry, but the man in question clearly knew exactly what he was about and talked her round.
 
You might be right to certain extent. It damages the male ego of those who are so sensitive, they've an image to maintain.
Then again, look at all those 'amusing' tales from American comedians, bemoaning how much their ex-wife took off them in the divorce.
 
Stormkhan said:
You might be right to certain extent. It damages the male ego of those who are so sensitive, they've an image to maintain.
Then again, look at all those 'amusing' tales from American comedians, bemoaning how much their ex-wife took off them in the divorce.
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I don't know if I think it is exactly as you explain, but we probably agree. By that, I mean that I see it another way (or just worded differently).

We talk about male "egos" and rarely discuss male emotions. Male are expected, by current society, to be successful in business, financially secure, and in charge of all aspects of their lives.

Can you imagine if a male expressed being scammed by a beautiful younger woman? Think of the comments that person would have to listen to. Not a lot of empathy, but comments mostly of the kind such as:

What are you complaining of? Was she good in the sack? What I wouldn't do to be in your shoes.

Or, well, look at you, why did you think she was interested in you, you mutt?

Women watch these type of crap stories mostly imo because, they are hoping to learn how to not fall into that type of trap, or they revel in others' misfortune.

@catseye, these comments are not in anyway directed at you:), as you are the person who first mentioned this program, but about people in general. And I refer to "crap" stories because they are stories of terrible people. I don't enjoy them, but will occasionally view one or two and shake my head in disappointment re the nastiness of the human race.
 
brownmane said:
We talk about male "egos" and rarely discuss male emotions. Male are expected, by current society, to be successful in business, financially secure, and in charge of all aspects of their lives.
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It's the same 'health' paradox.
On one hand, there's 'man-flu' where they are told that any health complaint is bound to be minor and, actually, you're exaggerating how bad you feel. On the other, we're told that men are notoriously reluctant to go to the G.P. or a health professional with health concerns, because they're 'meant to be tougher or whatever.
The disparity in gender and medical treatment also exists. I went into A&E with an incredibly painful knee. Got given high-strength meds and had to wait for an X-ray. T'missus twisted her knee, ambulance had to take her to A&E, she was given no painkillers, examined and was told "You must've twisted it - there's no break or dislocation - go home, take some ibuprophen and rest the leg!" The first was genuine pain but with no obvious trigger/cause. No conclusion. The second was the result of a known phyiscal cause, conclusion: meh. It might be suggested that because I - a bloke - made a real fuss and showed pain, it must've been bad. Whereas the 'middle-aged lady' - with a weight issue - should put up with it. :mad:
 
Stormkhan said:
It's the same 'health' paradox.
On one hand, there's 'man-flu' where they are told that any health complaint is bound to be minor and, actually, you're exaggerating how bad you feel. On the other, we're told that men are notoriously reluctant to go to the G.P. or a health professional with health concerns, because they're 'meant to be tougher or whatever.
The disparity in gender and medical treatment also exists. I went into A&E with an incredibly painful knee. Got given high-strength meds and had to wait for an X-ray. T'missus twisted her knee, ambulance had to take her to A&E, she was given no painkillers, examined and was told "You must've twisted it - there's no break or dislocation - go home, take some ibuprophen and rest the leg!" The first was genuine pain but with no obvious trigger/cause. No conclusion. The second was the result of a known phyiscal cause, conclusion: meh. It might be suggested that because I - a bloke - made a real fuss and showed pain, it must've been bad. Whereas the 'middle-aged lady' - with a weight issue - should put up with it. :mad:
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Disparity as far as age is concerned as well. The 20 somethings I know seem to get virtually instant attention from medics. Me? - I wait a month to see my doctor (all the while in quite bad back pain) and 2 months for a 15 minute physio appointment (and then get sent away to do it all myself with a pamphlet).
 
PeteS said:
Disparity as far as age is concerned as well. The 20 somethings I know seem to get virtually instant attention from medics. Me? - I wait a month to see my doctor (all the while in quite bad back pain) and 2 months for a 15 minute physio appointment (and then get sent away to do it all myself with a pamphlet).
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Yes and I think if you're a big guy you're ignored more too.
They don't expect a man like that to be such a wimp when it comes to blood tests etc.
I don't mean me, needles don't bother me.
Not at all. No way. Never. Scared? Pah, me? You're having a laugh. Not me pal.
 
brownmane said:
Women watch these type of crap stories mostly imo because, they are hoping to learn how to not fall into that type of trap, or they revel in others' misfortune.
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I think mostly it's a 'not wanting to fall into that trap' thing. One of the women featured had set up an organisation for other women who had been scammed out of a lot of money (she had actually married a genuine fraudster, later imprisoned for it, not just a 'love rat') and wanted to raise awareness. There's still a lot of embarrassment around love-scams, even for women. An element of 'why did you THINK a twenty one year old gorgeous man would fall for a sixty three year old divorcee who's four stone overweight?'

And anything that helps eliminate the shame and embarrassment of being caught out, hearing that others have been caught in exactly the same way and you're not the only one - is a good thing. So much fraud thrives on making the person defrauded feel too stupid to admit what's happened and go to the police, even if this is marketed as 'entertainment' it might help someone.
 
catseye said:
I think mostly it's a 'not wanting to fall into that trap' thing. One of the women featured had set up an organisation for other women who had been scammed out of a lot of money (she had actually married a genuine fraudster, later imprisoned for it, not just a 'love rat') and wanted to raise awareness. There's still a lot of embarrassment around love-scams, even for women. An element of 'why did you THINK a twenty one year old gorgeous man would fall for a sixty three year old divorcee who's four stone overweight?'

And anything that helps eliminate the shame and embarrassment of being caught out, hearing that others have been caught in exactly the same way and you're not the only one - is a good thing. So much fraud thrives on making the person defrauded feel too stupid to admit what's happened and go to the police, even if this is marketed as 'entertainment' it might help someone.
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Very much so. As I keep harping on about, It's so sad that people continue to be fooled by well publicised scams. Those scams where banks have warned people that they are having money stolen from them, but customers still insist on handing money over has been in the news recently. The legal system has decided that banks have no obligation to reimburse customers in those circumstances, and in my view quite rightly, since they are in reality handing over other people's money!
 
PeteS said:
Very much so. As I keep harping on about, It's so sad that people continue to be fooled by well publicised scams. Those scams where banks have warned people that they are having money stolen from them, but customers still insist on handing money over has been in the news recently. The legal system has decided that banks have no obligation to reimburse customers in those circumstances, and in my view quite rightly, since they are in reality handing over other people's money!
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I had a customer buying loads of Amazon cards the other day, about four I think, he wanted £100 put on each one. He was an older gentleman, not ancient but probably mid sixties. I asked him if he'd been asked to buy them to pay a debt, and he looked at me as though I were mad and said that he was buying them for a friend who couldn't come in. So I asked him to double check with the friend that it wasn't to pay, for example, 'HMRC' and he practically laughed at me.

One of my colleagues was behind him in the queue and she rolled her eyes at me, when she came to the counter I said 'well, I've done my due diligence.' I'm not entirely sure why the friend wanted £400 in Amazon cards, but I made my concerns known.
 
catseye said:
I had a customer buying loads of Amazon cards the other day, about four I think, he wanted £100 put on each one. He was an older gentleman, not ancient but probably mid sixties. I asked him if he'd been asked to buy them to pay a debt, and he looked at me as though I were mad and said that he was buying them for a friend who couldn't come in. So I asked him to double check with the friend that it wasn't to pay, for example, 'HMRC' and he practically laughed at me.

One of my colleagues was behind him in the queue and she rolled her eyes at me, when she came to the counter I said 'well, I've done my due diligence.' I'm not entirely sure why the friend wanted £400 in Amazon cards, but I made my concerns known.
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Good for you C. A few weeks ago I wanted to transfer money to one son's account, the bank official interrogated me about the transaction. I was able to convince her that I was fully aware of all the scams involved, but well done the bank.
 
T'missus (a call handler for a bank) often gets these calls.
She has to go through the obvious questions and act with due diligence. Ask all the right questions, makes sure the customer knows the risks, and so on. But if the customer is certain they want the transaction to proceed, who is the bank to tell them otherwise?
"You can't tell me what I can spend my money on!" can be, rightly, countered with "True. But we won't give you your money back if it's stolen!"
We warned you, you ignored the warning, it's on you.
On another occasion, a caller messed up her security questions and her call - for a large payment on holiday - had to be blocked. Her 'phone was snatched off of her and an angry man (Boyfriend? Husband? Stranger?) proceeded to complain that they were on holiday and 'she' needed the money. It didn't occur to him what it sounded like. When the call was terminated - politely but rightly, as he started getting abusive - t'missus referred the call to the security department who'd monitor that account.

And then, there's the ones who get impatient listening to the 'interrogation', just because they're impatient and can't see the point of "all this bureaucratic nonsense!"
 
Stormkhan said:
T'missus (a call handler for a bank) often gets these calls.
She has to go through the obvious questions and act with due diligence. Ask all the right questions, makes sure the customer knows the risks, and so on. But if the customer is certain they want the transaction to proceed, who is the bank to tell them otherwise?
"You can't tell me what I can spend my money on!" can be, rightly, countered with "True. But we won't give you your money back if it's stolen!"
We warned you, you ignored the warning, it's on you.
On another occasion, a caller messed up her security questions and her call - for a large payment on holiday - had to be blocked. Her 'phone was snatched off of her and an angry man (Boyfriend? Husband? Stranger?) proceeded to complain that they were on holiday and 'she' needed the money. It didn't occur to him what it sounded like. When the call was terminated - politely but rightly, as he started getting abusive - t'missus referred the call to the security department who'd monitor that account.

And then, there's the ones who get impatient listening to the 'interrogation', just because they're impatient and can't see the point of "all this bureaucratic nonsense!"
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Like our customer who spends a fortune on scratchcards every day. Yes, he has an addiction. But, he's an adult, who obviously has the money to spend on them. We have loads of stickers everywhere telling us how to intervene if someone buys too many scratchcards - but who says what 'too many' might be? He's an adult, if he chooses to burn all his cash on scratchcards, who are we to intervene?
 
I recently had a new deck built. Rather than put a cheque in the mail, I paid via e-transfer. Since it was over my limit (I have no idea what it might be), I had to call to have my limit changed.

The person handling my call asked me if I knew who I was paying, what it was for, and even asked me if I was satisfied with the work done. I had no problem answering these questions. I know that my credit union is actively watching where my money is going, especially with e-transfers as there is no comeback if it has been received by the wrong person/company.
 
Stormkhan said:
T'missus (a call handler for a bank) often gets these calls.
She has to go through the obvious questions and act with due diligence. Ask all the right questions, makes sure the customer knows the risks, and so on. But if the customer is certain they want the transaction to proceed, who is the bank to tell them otherwise?
"You can't tell me what I can spend my money on!" can be, rightly, countered with "True. But we won't give you your money back if it's stolen!"
We warned you, you ignored the warning, it's on you.
On another occasion, a caller messed up her security questions and her call - for a large payment on holiday - had to be blocked. Her 'phone was snatched off of her and an angry man (Boyfriend? Husband? Stranger?) proceeded to complain that they were on holiday and 'she' needed the money. It didn't occur to him what it sounded like. When the call was terminated - politely but rightly, as he started getting abusive - t'missus referred the call to the security department who'd monitor that account.

And then, there's the ones who get impatient listening to the 'interrogation', just because they're impatient and can't see the point of "all this bureaucratic nonsense!"
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The impatient ones are those who are most likely to get scammed and then whine about it afterwards.
 
maximus otter said:
100%: He’s a grownup.

If he hasn’t learned by now that actions have consequences, he bloody soon will.

maximus otter
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Addicts, without proper intervention and treatment, will continue to behave in ways detrimental to their health no matter what the warnings until they are either in jail, in hospital, or dead. It is not their choice, it is a biochemical modification to brain function that overcomes rational thought and subverts controls. People who are doing this need help, not blame or accusation.
 
madmath said:
Addicts, without proper intervention and treatment, will continue to behave in ways detrimental to their health no matter what the warnings until they are either in jail, in hospital, or dead. It is not their choice, it is a biochemical modification to brain function that overcomes rational thought and subverts controls. People who are doing this need help, not blame or accusation.
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I would generally agree with you. But this is scratchcards. Basically, he's a gambling addict. No health ramifications - just spending all his money on a wish and a hope to get rich.
 
madmath said:
Addicts, without proper intervention and treatment, will continue to behave in ways detrimental to their health no matter what the warnings until they are either in jail, in hospital, or dead. It is not their choice, it is a biochemical modification to brain function that overcomes rational thought and subverts controls. People who are doing this need help, not blame or accusation.
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Anyone can claim to be addicted to anything: Sex, booze, junk food, smoking, theft… It’s easy to allege, virtually impossible to disprove and elevates the claimant from numpty to that most desirable of conditions: that of victim.

Are there addicts? Yes. Is everyone who claims to be an addict, actually an addict? Not by a country mile.

maximus otter
 
madmath said:
Addicts, without proper intervention and treatment, will continue to behave in ways detrimental to their health no matter what the warnings until they are either in jail, in hospital, or dead. It is not their choice, it is a biochemical modification to brain function that overcomes rational thought and subverts controls. People who are doing this need help, not blame or accusation.
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That's not always true.

Many, many people stop smoking/drinking/taking drugs/gambling etc without help from anyone.

In any case, not everyone necessarily dies from their compulsions anyway.

And if someone mugs me or my family or friends because of their 'addiction' then I most certainly am going to blame them as I drop them on the ground and will not be blaming the fact that they were from a single parent family or their mother didn't love them or any of the many other inappropriate rationalisations.

There's too many excuses labels for everything these days, ''he smashed the bus shelter up because he has adhd'' and it's because of biochemical modification to brain function, when the answer in many (most) cases is simply that No, it's because they're a twat.
 
Floyd1 said:
There's too many excuses labels for everything these days, ''he smashed the bus shelter up because he has adhd'' and it's because of biochemical modification to brain function, when the answer in many (most) cases is simply that No, it's because they're a twat
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There's too many excuses labels medical diagnoses for everything these days
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TFTY!

If you have no choice about it then it's just another brick in the wall, so to speak. Scylla and Charybdis another way of looking at it - on one side you have people fake-claiming a neurological condition in an attempt to gain advantage and on the other side people ignoring that and claiming that reality is other than they wish.
 
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