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Time Travel Suggested / Ascribed To Explain OOPArts & Other Odd Evidence

E

evilsprout

Gone But Not Forgotten
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It has to be said that the idea of time disturbances explains a hell of a lot of Fortean phenomena.

UFOs become aircraft from the future; ghosts become images from past (and future?) times... ABCs become glimpses of a time when lynxes, lions and sabretooth tigers inhabited Britain... Bigfoot and Nessie become prehistoric animals that are somehow seen in our time... prediction and premonition become nearer to being explained, as does deja vu and people with the knowledge of "past lives".

OOPARTS are fascinating. They do seem to be either "evidence" of time/space disturbance, or of some kind of intelligent civilisation that existed way before us... in fact even before "our" lineage of life emerged.
 
In a nutshell, Out Of Place ARTifacts. Seemingly man mind objects that shouldn't be where they're found, ie in several million year old coal seams.
 
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:cool: Regarding ooparts, Ifind it curious that such mundane things are found embedded in rock, coal, etc, such things as nails for example, this suggests to me that time travel will be discoverd in the near future, if not why are we not finding unexplainable futuristic tools or such like?.
 
There is a tale of a complete stone-masons' yard being uncovered
at some impossible level below ground in a quarry in Aix-en-Provençe.

Can't find the reference right now, but it sounds like a Masonic
Mystification to me. :confused:
 
Who is saying there isn't evidence. Think of all the accounts of worked metal objects found in coal. Off the top of my head things like: a gold chain, a metal die, something that looks like a spark plug etc.
There was a good collection of info like this in Von Daniken's book in support of ancient astronauts but could equally apply to time travellers. My favourite (in "gold of the gods") was the alleged impression of a booted foot stamping on a trilobite. Seems like people have hated bugs for a long, long time...
As for the lack of evidence at human sites- Would you want to send someone on an invaluable scientific quest into the past to anywhere populated by humans. For the past 2000years anyone slightly odd has been variously burned, crucified, beheaded and generally relieved of life. Even in this century and the last if you turned up from the future they would probably stick you in a mental institute (a la Linda Hamilton in Terminator)
 
Just had to add my input as a fallen (i.e. Non-Conformist) mathematician to this debate.
1) How would you detect time travellers in History? The only evidence would be from imparted knowledge. Imagine trying to find even 100 artifacts left by time travellers in Giza - IMHO, that would be ground zero for temporal archeologists, given its significance and importance in human evolution (although the same could be said for Alexandria, Angkor Wat, Ullaroo, etc). Imagine that time travellers were so careless as to leave artifacts about. Would we recognise them? We have 8000 years of recorded history, and in 100 of those we have created the modern automobile, the aeroplane, the computer, the CD, the DVD and onwards. Can we absolutely say that the artifacts we've discovered aren't hard drives/zip disks/quantum computers? No, because as a childish race, we haven't the experience, nor the know-how to make that choice.
2) We anthropomorphisise what we do find - models of jet powered aircraft in Egyptian tombs are hailed as conclusive proof for either an advanced pre-historic civilization, or alien influence, or proof of time travellers. Maybe they are, but, to quote Enrico Fermi, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".
I take the analogy of Napoleon in Egypt, trying to decypher the Sphinx - he cannot, as we cannot, because the evidence is not there. Give Newton an Internal Combustion Engine, or a desktop PC, or a trans-Atlantic phone line, and he would be as lost as we are with the question of time travellers.
I leave you (at least until my book!) with a quote attributed to Niels Bohr - "When an eminent scientist says something can be done, wait 20 years to see it; When they say it cannot be done, wait 30".

And please excuse my babbeling, because as an MSCi, I am allowed to!
 
barndad said:
Who is saying there isn't evidence. Think of all the accounts of worked metal objects found in coal. Off the top of my head things like: a gold chain, a metal die, something that looks like a spark plug etc.
There was a good collection of info like this in Von Daniken's book in support of ancient astronauts but could equally apply to time travellers. My favourite (in "gold of the gods") was the alleged impression of a booted foot stamping on a trilobite. Seems like people have hated bugs for a long, long time...
Click to expand...

Erich tended towards terminological inexactitudes in his books. (In one book he claimed to have been down some caves with a named potholer. He claimed to have discovered many amazing artifacts down there. Unfortunately the named potholer denied that Von Daniken had ever been down the cave. Erich's response was to the effect that "If I had gone down there, then that is what I would have found.")
;)
 
Now, I'm absolutely sure this is fake, but it's still a nicely produced, anomalous image of someone who really doesn't fit in.


ABYC0001007b.jpg


stu edit - title altered to be more explanatory

Original Source: http://www.virtualmuseum.ca/sgc-cms...l&fl=0&lg=English&ex=00000470&hs=0&rd=117666#
 
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Nice enough, but the shadow edges are too sharp and too dark.

(I enjoy Photoshop, myself.)
 
Good photo, yes.

Conspiracy, no (even if it did involve time travel as opposed to Photoshop.)

Duly shifted, and while we're at it, Cracked magazine has a recurrent section featuring genuine images that are entirely legit, but look Photoshopped.

Part One, Part Two, Part Three, Part Four, Part Five, and Part Six.

And, for good measure, its collection of The 15 Most Shameless Fake Photos Ever Passed Off as Real :) (I know this is touched upon elsewhere on the forum - I think Yith may have posted about it - but for once I can't find...)
 
Who's to say that it isn't a stills shot of extras in a period drama/movie, and the bloke is just part of the production team? It doesn't look blatantly PhotoShopped to me.
 
Take a look at the back of his neck and head, as well as the shadow edges that Shaybarsabe pointed out. Also, he's everso slightly sharper than the surrounding crowd.
 
Also, he's out of scale. The image of him hasn't been shrunk to match the size of the other people.
 
What's the source of the photo? When and where is it alleged to be?

Photographically, it looks OK to me. I'm not going down the route of assuming something's photoshopped and then analysing every square millimetre of it looking for slight 'anomalies' to prove the theory! (Seems to me that's a bit like those UFO or ghost hunters who assume that every least light or sound represents something very weird, even though no-one else can see it!)
 
Naah, it looks totally wrong. Apart from the bloke's modern look (clothes, shades) he's completely the wrong size. There's a woman in front of him, roughly the same distance from the camera as he is, and her face is tiny compared to his.

The source of the photo would be interesting. I bet it's an online 'Photoshop yourself into and old photo' competition. ;)
 
escargot1 said:
Apart from the bloke's modern look (clothes, shades) he's completely the wrong size. There's a woman in front of him, roughly the same distance from the camera as he is, and her face is tiny compared to his.
Click to expand...
But people are different, Scarg! Have you never noticed? Just watch a crowd of people in a public place, and compare their heights, shapes, and proportions. Some of my favourite 'finds' are fat people with thin faces, or vic-versa, but there are many other characteristics that can be compared, including face size...
 
Right. It's completely genuine then.
 
escargot1 said:
Right. It's completely genuine then.
Click to expand...
Until the OP enlightens us about the provenance of the photo, I'm not wasting time speculating about it.

I dare say there are any number of old and new photos that could be deemed interesting by someone with a photshop/UFO/Ghost mentality.
 
There's a guy in the centre of the pic who also doesnt seem to fit, the one with the girl behind him facing the camera.
 
It's the Terminator's kid brother.... ;)
 
A date would be useful. Looks like a 50's crowd to me. (Apart from the clothes the guy bottom left appears to be holding one of those boxy little movie cameras that were around in the 50's.)

And if that's the case, faked or not - and although I'd admit that at first glance it appears to be completely out of place - is the figure really that anachronistic: fur-trimmed collar (possibly - or maybe some kind of chunky knitted top), dark glasses, what could be (looking at the wide neck) a knitted or woven jumper (rather than printed t-shirt) with a motif - none of those elements actually exclude the possibility of the figure being contemporary with the rest of the crowd. (The shape of the glasses arms might be a giveaway - you'd need an expert on sunglasses through the ages to judge that one - but the rather small, square shape of the actual lenses could quite easily be 50's.)

As I said, looks like a 50's crowd to me - generally square and not at all hep to the groove, more likely to lynch a beatnik than be one. Wouldn't a Kerouac or a Brando or anyone wanting to emulate them look just as out of place?

This picture was taken in the late 50's:

beatnik460.jpg


Kerouac would look cool in any age but look at the guy sat on the extreme right. With the visual information available wouldn't he fit quite comfortably into a group shot taken any time from 1958 to 2010? And that being the case isn't there possibly a tendency to assume the later provenance (because that's the direction we're looking from) and interpret anachronism in the earlier?

Does anyone else see what I'm getting at? Or have I just gone mad?
 
I agree. To me he just looks like he's spent some time in a big city and is now visiting small town. There are two Americas, especially in those days. I can't see anything wrong with the size of his face, some people have big heads.
 
I agree Beak, those glasses look like the ones my uncle had years ago with side protection and the tee shirt looks knitted as Spooky said.
 
MAN! You beat me to it! I was about to post, but refreshed the page after scrutinising the photo. Yes, the glasses are square and quite thick, easily mid to late 1950s, and I also noticed the camera. His hairstyle matches the date easily too. What some people don't seem to realise, is that there have always been the "Beatniks" in every era. I remember watching a documentary about a commune of "Hippies" on the Isle of Wight in 1958. All long haired, stripey jumper wearing drop out types who looked at least ten years before their time. Then there was an old film (British), from about 1943, (The details other than the date fail me, sorry) it was like an Ealing comedy, and in one scene, people were marching down to Downing Street to protest something or other, and in the usual crowd of hat wearing suit and ties, there was a man with long hair and a beard. Anyone remember "Nature Boy"? Was it Nat King Cole who promoted him? That was in 1948. He wore sandals, long hair, beard and was, as the name suggests, into nature and that.
This song was written by Eden Ahbez, one of the strangest songwriters of the pre-Hippie era. He was a beatnik poet, but more accurately a proto-Hippie, choosing to wear long hair, a full beard and long, white, flowing garments that promoted a Christ-like appearance. He lived in Griffith Park in Los Angeles and ate fruit, vegetables and nuts. Ahbez was born in Brooklyn in 1908, and he claimed to have been raised in an orphanage and to have crossed the US on foot 8 times before age 35. He moved to Los Angeles in the '40s, lived on 3 dollars a week, and lectured on Hollywood street corners about Oriental mysticism.
Click to expand...
*Source: http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=4472
Here is the man Circa 1950
ahbeannazoma2.jpg


So, initially, I thought the bloke in the photograph just stood out because of his height and position, then, as another poster wrote, the man in the centre looks more out of place.
 
I was tempted to say that Kerravon is having a wind-up, posting a random photo with no explanation of its origin, along with a provocative title. But I note Stu has changed the title - what was it before?

Kerravon says he's sure it's a fake - why?
From his profile, his interests are "Reading, writing, Forteana in its many forms, Asylum films and other poor/odd cinematic works" - make of that what you will! 8)
 
Spookdaddy said:
Or have I just gone mad?
Click to expand...

No, thank god. I thought it was just me who was missing something, staring at the photo looking for the out-of-place person.
 
This one clearly is a fake. You can tell by the young Debbie Harry stuck in there!
Oddchronistics.jpg
 
coaly said:
This one clearly is a fake. You can tell by the young Debbie Harry stuck in there!
Click to expand...
..and the girl looking at an image on her mobile phone! ;)
 
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