A Cure For Cancer?

[silvercoin]

Come on guys and gals I don't mean to be patronizing, but silvercoin was only 16 the other day. She's 18 now?? (maybe your petty sniping has made her a bit paranoid).

We were all young once, it just seems like a gang of mature smart arses pouncing on the slightest mistake made by an obviously younger poster. Grow up you bullies.

Thank you for sticking up for me! I am actually aged 18. I'll keep posting and hope that one day I come up with something that nobody laughs at!

 

[techybloke666]

Come on guys and gals I don't mean to be patronizing, but silvercoin was only 16 the other day. She's 18 now?? (maybe your petty sniping has made her a bit paranoid).

We were all young once, it just seems like a gang of mature smart arses pouncing on the slightest mistake made by an obviously younger poster. Grow up you bullies.

nothing new there then, Smart ass gang mentality seems to prevail on here most of the time.

If its any consolation Silver I agree with you fully, in fact I think that quite a few of the drugs company's actually go out of their way to keep people ill so to increase there proffits.

Long term use drugs seem to be the norm, to keep poeple dependant on the company providing relief.

 

[silvercoin]

cheers techy, I no longer feel like billy no-mates! I still maintain my viewpoint, I'm pretty sure theres more corruption within drug companies than people think. I also think that drug prices are kept artificially high, and maybe not as efficient as they could be, partly for monetary reasons, but also to keep population levels down, (eg HIV drugs in Africa) I mean if everyone had easy access to every drug available, we would all live too long and be well enough to reproduce too much etc.

 

[Mythopoeika]

If its any consolation Silver I agree with you fully, in fact I think that quite a few of the drugs company's actually go out of their way to keep people ill so to increase there proffits.

Long term use drugs seem to be the norm, to keep poeple dependant on the company providing relief.

Yeah, it's weird - I'm on a course of several different medicines, which I've been on for years (and I'll probably be on it for the rest of my life) - but before I went on the medication (diabetes and blood pressure) I felt perfectly OK. I actually feel ill now I've been on the drugs for so long.

 

[techybloke666]

Yeah, it's weird - I'm on a course of several different medicines, which I've been on for years (and I'll probably be on it for the rest of my life) - but before I went on the medication (diabetes and blood pressure) I felt perfectly OK. I actually feel ill now I've been on the drugs for so long.

Do you take Statins ?

 

[lemonpie3]

Yeah, obviously the big pharamceutical companies want to keep populations down in Africa.

WTF?????????

 

[silvercoin]

Yeah, obviously the big pharamceutical companies want to keep populations down in Africa.

WTF?????????

Well it wasnt obvious to me, as I had never heard that theory - I just worked it out for myself. Okay, so I've lived a sheltered life!

 

[lemonpie3]

I'm not saying it's obvious. I'm saying it's totally ridiculous. Jesus if you're going to have a conspiracy theory at least make it internally logical.

 

[silvercoin]

I dont think the drug companies themselves want to keep certain populations down but I think governments do. Since governments are in collaboration with drug companies, they get mutual benefit. The governments dont encourage drug companies to drop prices for certain types of drugs to certain countries, and drug companies are happy to oblige.

 

[Abendstern]

The last I heard, the population of Africa was at a low due to the HIV virus- populations have reached pre-19th century levels due to the spread of this and other diseases.

If you're looking for an overpopulated continent, I'd go for Asia meself!

It does sound a bit weird tbh Silvercoin (I'm also 18 btw, nice to know I'm not the only one!). The main aim of Drug companies is to sell as many drugs as possible to as many people as possible, an aim which is totally contrary to population control since more people means potentially more customers. I suspect that in Africa at the very least, governments would be looking to increase longevity, rather than decrease the populations of their countries, although you would have to investigate that on a country by country basis- generalizations certainly can't be made on a continent wide basis. It's also worth looking at the income of these countries- some of the big Pharma corps proabably have about the same turnover (or more) as one of them, and I'm not sure how much money they'd have to play with.

 

[silvercoin]

Nice 2 meet u Abendstern!


Conspiracy is one of my favourite fortean areas, and, call me paranoid, but I'm very suspicious of the plots and plans of governments, drug comanies and the like. I'm convinced of population control by certain governments, through various means, including those I have stated such as these governments not forcing drug companies to reduce prices to poor countries. The reasons for population control are many and varied of course but there are more and more people sharing less and less resources. Governments are bound to be thinking of ways to deal with this. You stated that the population of Africa was low due to people dying of Aids - that's exactly what I am trying to say - they've succeeded. Of course drug companies want to sell as much as possible, but since Africa cant afford the prices, and governments r not forcing prices down, then unfortunately, Africa do not get what they need and what they deserve.

Well I'm going a bit off topic now, so here is a link to another current thread, with similar content to the tangent in which I am going!





http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10891&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

 

[Abendstern]

You also haven't taken what I'm trying to say on board. Countries need a (healthy and) fairly stable population to be able to have a buoyant economy, without this It's difficult to get enough money. AIDS is a chronic illness- if u wanted to wipe people out, why not choose something quicker, rather than something which drains people of immunity so that they need treatment for other illnesses (like hepatitis).

 

[Dingo667]

The reason Africa doesn't get as many drugs as other contries is pure and simply that it cannot pay for it. Pharmaceutical drugs are merchandise like any other in the eyes of big companies. They go where money is and reluctantly "give" some [sometimes trial versions] to third world countries. I don't think its a conspiracy, its called business.

 

[hallybods]

I used to work for a large Pharmaceutical company a few years back and have to say that if a cure had been found then they would not surpress it as they would lose millions in revenue. What would be the point in spending the amounts of money they do on R&D and not get anything in return? It doesn't matter how much the item costs, it's the mark up on the drugs that makes them the money.

As for Africa, some companies do send some drugs free of charge, but they tend to be the ones that are coming to the end of their shelf life. As anyone can guess they were doing it for two reasons 1) they won't lose money on these products because it comes under charitable donations. 2) It is fantastic public relations.

 

[Jerry_B]

The reasons for population control are many and varied of course but there are more and more people sharing less and less resources. Governments are bound to be thinking of ways to deal with this.

Actually, lack of population growth is an real problem, not any ideas about stemming population growth. Populations in the West are in decline and people are living longer - this means that a future tax base is going to be stretched very very thinly, because there won't be enough younger working people to support the larger community of older people who aren't working. No Western government in it's right mind would try anything to limit population growth - only countries whose economies can't afford to support large populations have ever attempted population control - China and India being two examples. This doesn't have anything to do with drug companies - it mostly involves educating women and giving them access to more control over their lives.

So IMHO your theory is barking up the wrong tree

 

[techybloke666]

Actually, lack of population growth is an real problem, not any ideas about stemming population growth. Populations in the West are in decline and people are living longer - this means that a future tax base is going to be stretched very very thinly, because there won't be enough younger working people to support the larger community of older people who aren't working. No Western government in it's right mind would try anything to limit population growth - only countries whose economies can't afford to support large populations have ever attempted population control - China and India being two examples. This doesn't have anything to do with drug companies - it mostly involves educating women and giving them access to more control over their lives.

your quite right about the poor tax revenue effect of decreasing populations Jerry but your off the mark as to your conclusion regarding this happening globally.

Only Europe's population is in decline and at a very small rate, GB and France are still expanding and are forcast to for the next 20 years. all the other world area's Asia, North America, Africa etc are still increasing at a far greater rate than people would expect.

This is one reason that the UK are happy to have good skilled immigrant familys moving here and adding to the pool of Tax payers.
Also it keeps the numbers up for the universites and colleges as they are now suffering from a down turn in numbers over the last 5 years.
This isnt due however to population decrease but rather the types of UK children being born.
The trend is for well educated couples to concentrate on their careers , alot of these are not having children, in conjucntion with this , familys on benefits are having more babies, however these children are not moving on to higher education in the numbers that our government would like.
So the influx from other countries with higher work ethics and a greater need to move into higher education is seen as a good thing for our economy.

But I think that the population world growth as a whole will have a dramitic impact on our enviroment especially in places like Asia as they move to a more Power hungry/resource stripping cuture ( LIKE the US is)

So to sum up I disagree - it is in the wests interests to keep world population down but keep their own hand picked local populations at an acceptable level to support their own economy's.

Hence the drugs company's are not really interested in treating all the people in the world equally.

oh and by the way Asia's population is expected to expand to 5.2 billion by 2050 if they continue on their present population increase pattern, this in conjunction with their wish for a consumer lifestlye will place horendous burdens on the global resources of the planet.

Which is far more a concern for the Western Governments than enough tax payers


so what we actually have is an ever increasing asian/Muslim/Islamic population that will require vast amounts of world resources as time goes by, this is a threat to the wests power base as well as the global enviroment at large.

Hence their need to control the supply of OIL on the planet and control the sale/hedgmony of their OIL

those that control the world resources govern the planet.

bit off topic at the end there

 

[Jerry_B]

But note that I was only referring to populations in the West in my post WRT population decline.

 

[techybloke666]

But note that I was only referring to populations in the West in my post WRT population decline.

short answer are you busy ?

Lets split this down a bit , WEST as in Europe and North America ?
if so its still increasing over all.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/jo ... igures.jpg

as you can see the projected world population is set to increase dramatically especialy in asia.

the ten leading killers of Third World populations could be halved in a few years with help from the wests governments and cooperation from the main drugs companies over supply and costs.

http://www.alertnet.org/topkillerdiseases.htm


At the moment The world bank is in dissaray thanks to PW and many of its skilled people are rebelling againt PW's idea's. ( hardly surprising)

In recent months, picking up steam in recent weeks, there has been a massive exodus of top talent from the World Bank. According to reports, the senior Ethics Officer at the Bank has departed. Also on the exit roster are the Vice President for East Asia & Pacific, the Chief Legal Counsel, the Bank's top Managing Director, the Director of Institutional Integrity (which monitors internal and external corruption), the Vice President for Environmentally and Socially Sustainable Development, and the head of ISG (Information Solutions Group).

According to one senior insider who feels as if Wolfowitz is gut-punching the most talented teams at the bank and indicated that morale is plummeting, "Wolfowitz just does not talk to his Vice Presidents. He speaks to a few close advisors -- Kevin Kellems, Robin Cleveland, Karl Jackson, some others -- but a lot of very good people are leaving."

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001196.php

This is in turn making the problems of the Third World greater still.

More needs to be done for these people but is it in the interests of the Western Governments ?

I THINK NOT

 

[Stormkhan]

I know I'm butting in to this thread late in the game, and I admit I've not read every single post, but surely mortality rate always increases with high population growth? Conforming to Professor Thoms 'Catastrophy Theory', once a population density hits the crisis point, natural pressures - whether societal or even physiological - increase mortality to quite extreme levels until the population reaches a balanced, sustainable quantity. Western 'interference' could be considered to be a factor, and not a cause, of any populations development and/or decline.
So, while some Western government power might see their effect as beneficial to their own situation, it is limited since the 'victim' population will soon stabilise and be able to check the effect.

 

[techybloke666]

an interesting thought Stormy

here is some more info on Catastrophe theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe

Certainly there would seem to be a critical population point in terms of resources being available to sustain them.

But I do wonder how far off that figure we really are and I do wonder if natural occurrences will keep it in check.

In a controlled society these sorts of eventualities could be better organised

 

[Jerry_B]

Hence their need to control the supply of OIL on the planet and control the sale/hedgmony of their OIL

That would only make sense if all of the Western countries were involved in securing oil in the ME. But, obviously, there are only a few that are doing this. So trying to make out that the West is trying to keep everyone else down for the sake of oil doesn't really add up.

the ten leading killers of Third World populations could be halved in a few years with help from the wests governments and cooperation from the main drugs companies over supply and costs.

Which puts paid to the idea that drug companies are conspiring to prevent various cures getting to where they're needed.

 

[crunchy5]

Ah old school talking about countries, it's all corporations now you see.

 

[techybloke666]

techybloke666 wrote:
the ten leading killers of Third World populations could be halved in a few years with help from the wests governments and cooperation from the main drugs companies over supply and costs.


Which puts paid to the idea that drug companies are conspiring to prevent various cures getting to where they're needed.

Funny how you came to that conclusion given my sentence above !!!!!! as I meant just the opposite to what you concluded.

see bold bits above

could be - this isnt happening
Help from Governments - this isnt happening
Supply and costs - this isnt becoming cheap its getting more expensive

 

[lemonpie3]

Is there not a missing link in your argument around exactly how Governments and Pharmaceutical Corporations are in league with each other?

 

[techybloke666]

Is there not a missing link in your argument around exactly how Governments and Pharmaceutical Corporations are in league with each other?

in conspiracy terms maybe

 

[techybloke666]

IMHO

looking at a theoretical case

TB in Africa

Africa could almost eradicate TB if funds were released by the western governments to finance the Major Drugs companies to provide vaccinations for the entire populace.

So whos at fault ?
The western governments for not financing and not caring ?
The drugs companies for not pushing the financing from the governments ?

Us for letting our elected governments not act in this way?

Why does something as simple as this fail year after year to get off the table ?

Conspiracy -- maybe
Complacancy -- I would think so.

Deliberate Complacancy ? isnt that a conspiracy ?

as too one person being in charge of these decisions -

These types of global health decisions shouldnt lie with Governments that are too worried about the bottom line or Drugs companies looking to be over proffitable.

The health of the world is far more important than the bottom line

But that would rely on whatever was responsible not being currupt !

And isnt it mans nature to be currupted by power and greed.

Utlimately the people who can make those decisions and make a difference to the world are the very same ones that will not walk that path.

some things never change.

Conspiracy ? only in the terms of how mean and nasty people can be when in positions of authority which effect their financial greedy natures.

Unfair world isn't it

 

[lemonpie3]

No disagreement here.

 

[misterwibble]

So how does the eradication of smallpox and the near eradication of Polio fit into this genocidal conspiracy of western governments and drug companies?

 

[Jerry_B]

That's a point I've raised before, mrwibble - without being given any answer thus far

 

[DerekH16]

IMHO

looking at a theoretical case

TB in Africa

Africa could almost eradicate TB if funds were released by the western governments to finance the Major Drugs companies to provide vaccinations for the entire populace.

So whos at fault ?
The western governments for not financing and not caring ?
The drugs companies for not pushing the financing from the governments ?

Us for letting our elected governments not act in this way?

Or African governments who would rather have lots of guns and shiny new jet fighters than healthy citizens?