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A Question Of Kabbalah

MrRING

MrRING

Android Futureman
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Aug 7, 2002
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For those interested in the world of magic:

To me, the Kabbalah is the basis for "Western Magic" studies (though I confess to not knowing if there is another logical systerm out there). The Golden Dawn, Crowley, and most modern magicians seem to adhere to the idea that the Kabbalah is a perfect model for the magical world.

My question for believers is, is the Kabbalah:

1) One expression of the universe that just happened along and works well but isn't really the set up of reality as we know it...

2) OR is it actually the total of reality removed from any human bias, that Kabbalah exists in time-space as the logical hierarchy of all matter beyond any other belief system.
 
To me it's always seemed more like the pinhole piece of card that you use to watch eclipses and such. It is a very crude (naturally, as it is a human construct), tho' accurate map of Universal reality.

Quabalah - i'm not minded to spell it in all its multifaceted splendour, or "receiving" is for me the most *mentally grasping now* natural? / obvious? / logical? interpretation of what we experience every day. And we're on (practically all of us) level 1 of the game.

It's also interesting that some see The Kingdon as the most base platform, whereas others consider it God's most pure essence distilled. Like playing the cloud game, everyone sees something different.

And that's even before you go into negative existence, the three veils and whatnot.

So anyway, yep it's like a hole on a card - innately crude but shows you events that would otherwise burn your retinas out in 10 seconds flat.
 
I find these things rather difficult to talk about, because I swap beliefs so readily in matters of magic(k).

With my everyday head on, qabala is a mental map, one of many : an interesting thing to think about, a story the contemplation of which can change the way you think. It's a study, it's a symbol system, it's a reality model and it's a mindfuck.

With my silly robe on it becomes an wonderous mystical truth and a powerful tool set, an endlessly fascinating glimpse of the raw stuff of reality, a vision of god, and the reading and the studying and the meditating upon it are expanded by an intuitive feel for it, wisdom received from elsewhere.

So, er both, Mr R.

To me, the kingdom is beautiful, incidentally, TMS I would like see theword 'base' used without negative connotations .....


And so we are, marooned in Malkuth. This was told to me, again, one Sunday around noon, sitting outside my house smelling patchouli and wet earth and hash smoke, listening to the birds as fine rain began to fall through my reverie of new green and old grey stone beauty, intricate detail in all things that delights, this joyous taste of material existence that we choose so that stories can happen and so we can be in them, to experience the bliss of all of this, pleasure and pain equally.

Split me from the godhead and hurl me one more time through the funhouse.
Click to expand...
 
I understand the Tree of Life illustrates the manner in which the cosmos manifested, and the route by which we can ascend to a close relationship with the divine. In that respect, it can be understood as a symbolic map of a set of real experiences, waiting to be encountered.

Objective or subjective? I guess the distinction breaks down.
 
Alexius said:
I understand the Tree of Life illustrates the manner in which the cosmos manifested, and the route by which we can ascend to a close relationship with the divine.
Click to expand...

That's part of how I regard it. :D
I also consider it a tool. Focusing on the different Sephiroth and the paths between them makes for good meditative exercise. Hell, it's fun enough to just study it and read about it. It has a distinct air of entertainment to me, but I may just be a nerd. ;)
 
The tree of life is only a part of Qabala (the root really), but probably to easiest to get a basic grasp on because you don't need to speak Hebrew to follow it. Other parts such as Gematria involve linking of meanings by means of divining the numbers inherent in words. Breaking the words down into numbers, you can basically connect anything to anything else which some people see as absurd. I prefer to see it as an indication of the interconnectedness of everything. I'm just a hippy at heart.

There's a nice example of Gematria given by the Jewish Qabalist in the film Pi, with the words for mother, father and child.
 
In addition to which the Kircher tree we know and love is only one of several representations.
 
Ah, a system so unknowable that no two people spell it the same way.

MacGregor Mathers divided the Qabalah into four:

The Practical Qabalah, dealing with ceremonial magic (you'll want your copy of 'The Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage' for this part);

The Dogmatic Qabalah, the written versions (or portions) of the oral tradition (see the 'Sepher Yetzirah');

The Literal Qabalah, combining letters and numbers (that's Gematria, not your social security number (probably));

The Unwritten Qabalah, the real understanding of how symbols are arranged on the Tree Of Life (pin the tarot trump on the Sephirah, as it were (though it may go on one of the paths between sephiroth), and then do the same with the zodiac and archangels and chakras and gods and colours and animals and shapes and so on - and then consider this correspondence soup in itself and in relation to those around it, not forgetting those not around it, and you may just, out of the corner of your mind's eye, catch a fleeting apprehension of something the mind isn't equipped to approach directly) (apparently).
 
The issue is complicated somewhat by there being a number of takes on the qbl (can't get a fundamental spelling than that ;)).

Here is a page outlining Isaac Luria's defining 16th century interpretation; the site also explores other traditions of interpretation.

Lurianic qabala

All heavily indebted to Neo-Platonism and the philosophy of Ibn 'Arabi, and highly influential to this day.
 
Can You Tie Your Shoe With A Bow?

Let's see, where was we?

Lot's of old bollox from Stan Gooch's idea that pentagram's reflected the way ideas got formed and bounced about in the various sections and sub-sectors of the human/neanderthal, left/right, fore/back, cerbrum/cerebellum brain..

Something else, vaguely remembered about the pineal gland and the breakdown of the bi-cameral mind and the birth of consciousness, from a book by Arthur Koestler.

Then there's certain similiarities between the Q'bl-istic tree of life and the Indian system of chakras. Consciousness and spiritual/kundalini force raising techniques.

Of course Freemasons and their Solomonic Temple draw on symbolism of the Tree for the twin pillars, Jachin and Boaz, that form the entrance. Also intended as a symbolic model for the Universe as created by the Master Architect, himself.

However, perhaps, Q'bl' is less about a representation of the Universe as a series of lightning flash interractions between the various spiritual spheres of creation, than an attempt by mediæval jewish mystics, alchemists and students to divine the ineffable by deep introspection, shut up in the ghettos of the European diaspora and reaching deep into their own melancholic psyches for inspiration, in the reaches of the night.

The magical/mystical spiritual equivalent of the computer hackers of their day?

So, perhaps the Q'bl is more a model of the way the mind and consciousness works, is formed, and in turn that could be taken as a Micro/Macrosmic representation of a conscious Universe coming into Being?
 
Or should we all just chuck this centuries-old esoteric stuff for whatever she's having...

'Britney Spears, whose first marriage in January lasted just 55 hours, is to wed again, in a Kabbalah ceremony. Friends say the 22-year-old singer has set aside a weekend in the autumn to marry fiance Kevin Federline, who she began dating in April.
It would be the first celebrity Kabbalah marriage and could take place beneath a traditional Jewish canopy known as a chuppah, with wedding vows inspired by the cult religion. The faith taken up by Miss Spears is also favoured by Madonna, Guy Ritchie and Demi Moore.
Miss Spears's parents are said to be horrified at the prospect and, as devout Baptists, are urging her to plan a ceremony reflecting their faith.
'There's some resistance from her family,' said a friend. 'But maybe there's a way to incorporate elements from both faiths, and make everyone happy.'
The singer has turned to Kabbalah after a dramatic few months which have seen her cancel a world tour following a knee injury.

So, does anyone know how the Kabbalah has managed to get turned into some sort of 'faith'?
 
"Kabbalism is a Christian fringe science just waiting to be reborn in our own soul-searching times."

- Charles Panati, 'Sacred Origins Of Profound Things' (1996)
 
Latest coverts as reported on IMDB news.

Jackman Joins Kabbalah Pilgrimage

Australian movie star Hugh Jackman is the latest convert to Kabbalah and will accompany Madonna on a pilgrimage to Israel next month, according to reports. Madonna, a long-term follower of the mystical offshoot of Judaism, will be celebrating the Jewish holidays of Rosh Hashanah in Tel Aviv - and will be joined by Van Helsing star Jackman, his wife Deborra-Lee Furness and designer Donna Karan, according to website The Scoop. Other Kabbalah-keen stars Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore have yet to confirm their places on the jaunt. The Scoop claim the pilgrimage will appear live on American news show 20/20, and will include an interview with Kabbalah leader, Rabbi Philip Berg - as part of a publicity push by the Los Angeles Kabbalah Center. A source tells the site, "It will be quite the media event for Kabbalah. This all comes a month before a publicity extravaganza in October, including a billboard on Sunset Boulevard to promote a book on the red string - which wards off the evil eye - as the got-to-have religious fashion accessory of the season."
Click to expand...
 
It sounds to me like they believe that you must be Jewish to believe in Kabbalah, which is absolutely incorrect in my opinion. Most people will say the same.
I have respect for Jackman so I hope he regards the subject in a more mature and less showy manner than people like Madonna. She makes me ill and I wouldn't want to travel with her. :cross eye
 
Madonna due to join Israel trip
Madonna is due to celebrate the Jewish New Year in Israel with 2,000 fellow students of Kabbalah, prompting an extensive police operation.
The singer will visit the graves of rabbinical sages in northern Israel on next week's trip, organised by the Los Angeles-based Kabbalah Centre.

Police said 2,000 officers are being deployed after rumours that religious extremists could disrupt the visit.

Kabbalah is a type of Jewish mysticism taught regardless of religion.

Celebrity interest

It has attracted several celebrities in recent years, including actress Demi Moore, singer Britney Spears and fashion designer Donna Karan.

But some ultra-Orthodox rabbis frown upon the celebrity interest in Kabbalah.

Rabbi Yitzhak Kadouri, a leading Kabbalist and revered rabbinical sage, told Israeli newspaper Maariv that non-Jews, and women in general, are banned from studying Jewish mysticism.

The Kabbalah Centre group is expected to arrive in Israel as the Jewish New Year begins on Wednesday, and to visit Rachel's Tomb, the traditional burial place of the biblical matriarch in the West Bank town of Bethlehem.


Osnat Youdkevitch, the director of Tel Aviv's Kabbalah Centre, told the Haaretz newspaper that the group would also be expected to do "kaparos".
This is a Jewish custom in which a live chicken is swung over the head, slaughtered and given to the poor ahead of Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement. It is said to symbolise getting rid of the year's sins.

In May Madonna cancelled plans to visit Israel as part of her ongoing world tour.

She said she had wanted to concentrate on her European dates, but The Sun newspaper reported that the Israel dates were cancelled due to safety fears.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/entertainment/3641256.stm

Published: 2004/09/09 14:16:06 GMT
 
Ramon Mercado said:
Rabbi Yitzhak Kadouri, a leading Kabbalist and revered rabbinical sage, told Israeli newspaper Maariv that non-Jews, and women in general, are banned from studying Jewish mysticism.
Click to expand...

I've heard that was a rule for a certain amount of time(and was started for political reasons) and usually is not considered applicable, although some people obviously like it. :hmph:
 
Well, be fair; he is a Rabbi speaking from within his tradition, and qabala is an integral part of that. He is a real qabalist.

Whereas the stuff celebrities seem to be getting into seems a little dilute.

Happened with Sufism a while back. Thanks in large to the mis-translation of Rumi, Sufism became the super cool religion you didn't have to believe anything to join in. The reality: well, you ain't Muslim, you ain't joining - that simple.

With qabala it is slightly different, as it has in various forms permeated European spirituality; however, there is a big difference between being influenced by qabala and being a qabalist. The Rabbi's point appears to be that the centre is offering something it cannot deliver. Just another New Age spiritual fix without commitment or responsibility.

And that may very well be so.
 
I actually don't believe the center has much of value myself(Which was why I winced at Jackman being involved and hoping that perhaps he was taking it with a less trendy point of view), but my point was that the view the Rabbi is ascribing to as an absolute truth no longer is considered one.

Scroll down to "Age 40 and study of Kabbalah"
Quoting directly:
"'The "Gazairah," or prohibition, around the study of Kabbalah by anyone under 40 and unmarried was enacted by the 17th-18th century rabbis in reaction to the chaos created by Sabbatai Zevi's and Nathan of Gaza's reinterpretation of the Zohar. Prior to them, there were no such restrictions. That prohibition has been lifted, essentially, by the late Lubavitcher Rebbe - even extending the study of Kabbalah to non-Jews in preparation for the coming of the Messiah.'"
In short, as is mentioned above and in other referances I've seen, Kabbalah(In the Judaic context and not just in the modern one) is usually not considered off-limits to anyone anymore.
I imagine the reason why the Rabbi mentioned said what he said was because he is Orthodox and is probably holding some stricter views, but it nonetheless is irritating and chauvenistic(Somehow I feel like I spelt that wrong), to me.
 
With you on that one :)

I feel the Centre and the good Rabbi represent the extremes, but....the Rabbi may be voicing a minority view, but it is within the tradition, and so deserves acknowledgement.

Which you do anyway, so this was a useless post ;)
 
Kabbalah sect woman stabbed two in frenzy

A DEVOTEE of the mystical Jewish Kabbalah sect murderedher former boyfriend and great-grandmother after complaining that she felt “controlled by the church”.
Phiona Davis, a 25-year-old fashion student, was a member of the London’s Kabbalah centre, which was set up with a £3.65 million donation from Madonna. Other followers of the controversial sect, which encourages its members to donate 10 per cent of their income to the movement, include Britney Spears, Demi Moore, the Beckhams and Elizabeth Taylor.

Davis repeatedly stabbed Keith Fernandez, 27, her former lover, at her home in Palmers Green, North London. Neighbours broke down her front door after hearing shouting and screaming to find her sitting astride Mr Fernandez covered in blood and holding a large kitchen knife, the Old Bailey was told.

They fled to call the police as Davis stabbed Mr Fernandez repeatedly with the kitchen knife and a smaller peeling knife while he tried desperately to fight her off.

Mr Fernandez escaped, but Davis chased him down the street and continued the attack. As she stabbed the telephone salesman 58 times, witnesses described an “evil grin on her face” and she was heard to say “this is done through God”. Mr Fernandez also had bite marks on his cheek, arm and chest. Davis calmly left the scene by bus and police failed to find her.

The next morning, she visited her great-grandmother, Mary Skerritt, 81, and stabbed her 130 times. She then placed crosses around the floor of Mrs Skerritt’s flat and started several fires, the court was told.

As the flat in Stoke Newington, North London, became engulfed in flames, she stood outside holding her hands outstretched like Christ, shrieking “I am the Messiah” and “Burn the demons”.

A few months before last October’s doublemurder, Davis told her doctor she was being “controlled” and people from the Kabbalah centre were walking around her flat, according to David Evans, QC, for the prosecution. Davis, a student at the London College of Fashion, cried as she pleaded not guilty to two charges of murder, two alternative charges of manslaughter and to arson.

Mr Evans told the jury that there was no dispute that Davis killed the two people, but the panel would have to decide whether she had been insane at the time.

Mr Evans said Davis had been treated by her GP for depression since 2001. In 2002, she showed some manic behaviour and said that God was speaking to her.

Mr Evans added: “At the beginning of 2003, Miss Davis became a regular worshipper at the Kabbalah Centre. In April 2003, Miss Davis’s general practitioner notes that Miss Davis had been involved in prayer at church (and) she reported feeling controlled by the church. She felt scared living alone, she was not eating or drinking properly. She reported feeling that people from the Kabbalah Centre were walking around her flat.”

The court was told Davis was kept in hospital overnight on two occasions but discharged the next day after her psychotic symptoms disappeared. She failed to keep follow-up appointments at Chase Farm Hospital, Barnet, North London.

Nigel Eastman told the court that Davis, who was suffering from schizophrenia, was one of the sickest people he had examined.

The trial continues.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,171-1260971,00.html
 
Double killer sent to Broadmoor

Double killer sent to Broadmoor
A 25-year-old who killed her great-grandmother and her former boyfriend was insane at the time of the deaths, the Old Bailey has heard.
Phiona Davis, of Green Lanes, Palmers Green, north London, was found not guilty of murder due to insanity.

The student had told doctors she thought Keith Fernandez was a robot and her great-grandmother Mary Skerrit was the devil, the jury heard.

Both were found with multiple stab wounds in October last year.

On Tuesday, the court heard that Miss Davis had said she had attacked them because she thought "judgment day" had arrived.


When you committed these appalling acts you were suffering from a severe schizophrenic illness
Judge Martin Stephens

Miss Davis was also found not guilty of arson by reason of insanity. She had denied all of the charges.
She was given a hospital order under section 37 of the Mental Health Act with a section 41 restriction, meaning she can never be freed without permission from the Home Office.

The 25-year-old was returned to Broadmoor special hospital where she is being treated.

Judge Martin Stephens told her: "When you committed these appalling acts of violence, you were suffering from a severe schizophrenic illness."

He said forensic psychiatrist, Professor Nigel Eastman, had called her "one of the illest people he had met in over 20 years".

Mr Fernandez, 27, was found with 58 stab wounds and 81-year-old Mrs Skerrit was discovered with 130 stab wounds a day later, at her home in Stoke Newington, north London, after a number of fires had been started there.


Miss Davis had been involved in prayer at church, she reported feeling controlled by the church
David Evans QC, prosecuting

David Evans QC, prosecuting, told the jury Miss Davis had stood outside Mrs Skerrit's flat holding her hands outstretched and said "I am the Messiah".
He said she had shown some manic behaviour in 2002 and expressed interest in the church, saying God was speaking to her.

She had become a regular worshipper at the Kabbalah Centre in early 2003.

"In April 2003, Miss Davis's general practitioner notes that Miss Davis had been involved in prayer at church, she reported feeling controlled by the church," Mr Evans said.

"She felt scared living alone, she was not eating or drinking properly.

"She reported feeling that people from the Kabbalah Centre were walking around her flat."

Miss Davis had been discharged from hospital twice after her psychotic symptoms disappeared following overnight stays.

The court was told she failed to keep follow-up appointments, but had since responded to medication and was now "extraordinarily distressed by what she has done".


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/3655432.stm

Published: 2004/09/14 13:21:34 GMT

© BBC MMIV
:eek:
 
The current celebrity craze for Kabalah looks like another manifestation of the return of the '70s, when Bowie sang about kether and malkuth in "Station To Station" and Todd Rundgren and Cat Stevens put the Tree of Life on the back covers of their LPs.

Give it ten years and they'll be back to "Greed is good."
 
Madonna sees sacred wall at night
Pop star Madonna has visited Judaism's sacred Western Wall in the dead of night, to avoid being mobbed by waiting photographers.
But the singer, who is on a spiritual quest to the Holy Land, only glimpsed the wall from her car and did not go down to the site during Sunday's visit.

Earlier, she made a midnight pilgrimage to a Jerusalem cemetery and held a ceremony at the grave of a Jewish sage.

The Kabbalah devotee began her five-day visit to Israel on Wednesday.


Celebrity following

The singer and her family have joined 2,000 fellow Kabbalists from the Los Angeles-based Kabbalah Centre to celebrate the start of the Jewish New Year.

Kabbalah is a type of Jewish mysticism that has a growing celebrity following.

But Madonna, who recently adopted the Hebrew name Esther and wears a trademark Kabbalah red string on her wrist, has insisted she is serious about her belief in the Jewish mysticism.


She visited the grave of the Kabbalist sage Rabbi Yehuda Ashlag with her husband, film-maker Guy Ritchie, at the Kiryat Shaul cemetery, just after midnight on Sunday.

Polish-born Ashlag, who died in 1954, is the renowned author of the Sulam - the ladder - a commentary on the core Kabbalistic text, the Zohar.

Madonna spent more than an hour inside the stone mausoleum, placing candles on the tomb, praying and chanting.

The entourage, led by a rabbi, recited blessings over food and wine and drank from small plastic cups

After the visit, they moved on to the Western Wall - a part of Judaism's holiest site where the biblical temples once stood - but Madonna stayed in the car.

Religious values

At the site she received a mixed welcome from young worshippers, with some chanting: "She has no right to be here."

Some have opposed Madonna's visit and involvement in Kabbalah, charging that the raunchy, materialistic values the singer has promoted in the past are contrary to religious values.

But others welcomed her visit and said she had deprived herself of a spiritual experience by remaining in her vehicle.

Hadass Chen, who came to see the singer, said: "Why did she not come out of the car, we were waiting for her.

"You don't feel the vibe if you don't touch the wall."


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/entertainment/3670172.stm

Published: 2004/09/19 09:40:28 GMT

© BBC MMIV
 
my friend and roommate is a Jewish Kabbalahist. he's gradually studying it along with the Zohar. it takes much much MUCH longer to learn and master than Madonna will ever put the energy into. we both look at all celebrities who "master" it over night with disdain. it's a life long experiance. plus, the red string on the wrist isn't part of it.

i'm Catholic and i think it works. it's got a solid root system.
 
I don't think that Madonna has ever claimed to have mastered the Kabbalah.
 
The Garudian would be an Indonesian newspaper, surely? (And yes, I'm familar with The Graudian.)

I have a friend, actually a friend's wife, who has taken to study the kabbalah recently to show that Madonna is misrepresenting it, and just wearing it as fashion. She's even teaching a TAFE course in it. She says that the bits of the kabbalah that Madonna does "observe" are complete misrepresentations.
 
anome said:
The Garudian would be an Indonesian newspaper, surely? (And yes, I'm familar with The Graudian.)

I have a friend, actually a friend's wife, who has taken to study the kabbalah recently to show that Madonna is misrepresenting it, and just wearing it as fashion. She's even teaching a TAFE course in it. She says that the bits of the kabbalah that Madonna does "observe" are complete misrepresentations.
Click to expand...

An excellent reason for taking up any sort of study - just to show that someone else is doing it wrong. :roll:
 
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