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Afterlife: Life After Death? Yes Or No—You Tell Me

Humans 'predisposed' to believe in gods and the afterlife
http://www.physorg.com/print224760338.html
May 16th, 2011 in Other Sciences / Social Sciences

Concepts such as gods and the afterlife are basic to human nature.

A three-year international research project, directed by two academics at the University of Oxford, finds that humans have natural tendencies to believe in gods and an afterlife.

The £1.9 million project involved 57 researchers who conducted over 40 separate studies in 20 countries representing a diverse range of cultures. The studies (both analytical and empirical) conclude that humans are predisposed to believe in gods and an afterlife, and that both theology and atheism are reasoned responses to what is a basic impulse of the human mind.

The researchers point out that the project was not setting out to prove the existence of god or otherwise, but sought to find out whether concepts such as gods and an afterlife appear to be entirely taught or basic expressions of human nature.

'The Cognition, Religion and Theology Project’ led by Dr. Justin Barrett, from the Centre for Anthropology and Mind at Oxford University, drew on research from a range of disciplines, including anthropology, psychology, philosophy, and theology. They directed an international body of researchers conducting studies in 20 different countries that represented both traditionally religious and atheist societies.

The findings are due to be published in two separate books by psychologist Dr. Barrett in Cognitive Science, Religion and Theology and Born Believers: The Science of Childhood Religion.

Project Co-director Professor Roger Trigg, from the Ian Ramsey Centre in the Theology Faculty at Oxford University, has also written a forthcoming book, applying the wider implications of the research to issues about freedom of religion in Equality, Freedom and Religion (OUP).

Main findings of the Cognition, Religion and Theology Project:

• Studies by Emily Reed Burdett and Justin Barrett, from the University of Oxford, suggest that children below the age of five find it easier to believe in some superhuman properties than to understand similar human limitations. Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a box in which she could not see. Children aged three believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers are not all-seeing and all knowing. However, children may continue to believe in all-seeing, all-knowing supernatural agents, such as a god or gods.

• Deborah Kelemen from Boston University finds both children and adults imbue the natural world with ‘purpose’. For instance, respondents were provided with three possible answers to the question of why polar bears are white. Adult respondents, who were obliged to supply answers quickly without time to think, instinctively gave answers that implied ‘purpose’ in the natural world. They would reply that polar bears were white for reasons of camouflage, rather than the more scientifically accurate mechanistic explanation that a polar bear fur lacks pigment, or the silly answer that polar bears have been bleached by the sun. However, if the respondents were given more time to answer, they opted for a ‘mechanistic’ response i.e. that polar bears did not have pigment. The researchers conclude that the immediate, instinctive response was over-ridden by a scientific, reasoned response if participants had time to reflect. This research extends Kelemen’s previous research showing that children prefer purpose-based explanations: children were asked why rocks were pointed and were also found to choose answers that implied purpose, saying that rocks were pointed so the birds could sit on them.

• Experiments involving adults, conducted by Jing Zhu from Tsinghua University (China), and Natalie Emmons and Jesse Bering from The Queen’s University, Belfast, suggest that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body.

Project Director Dr. Justin Barrett, from the University of Oxford’s Centre for Anthropology and Mind, said: "This project does not set out to prove god or gods exist. Just because we find it easier to think in a particular way does not mean that it is true in fact. If we look at why religious beliefs and practices persist in societies across the world, we conclude that individuals bound by religious ties might be more likely to cooperate as societies. Interestingly, we found that religion is less likely to thrive in populations living in cities in developed nations where there is already a strong social support network."

Project Co-Director Professor Roger Trigg, from the University of Oxford’s Ian Ramsey Centre, said: "This project suggests that religion is not just something for a peculiar few to do on Sundays instead of playing golf. We have gathered a body of evidence that suggests that religion is a common fact of human nature across different societies. This suggests that attempts to suppress religion are likely to be short-lived as human thought seems to be rooted to religious concepts, such as the existence of supernatural agents or gods, and the possibility of an afterlife or pre-life."

Provided by Oxford University
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Surprisingly, I couldn't find a mention of Paul Beard's book Living On in the forum. The hierophant's apprentice has just added it to the "Fortean library" in FT411.
It struck me that the accounts given in the book of working 'your' way up to ever higher consciousness is very similar to that described by psychonauts e.g. Chris Bache in his book LSD and the mind of the universe.

(Finally got to resurrect an old thread as it seemed to be the most appropriately titled, annoyingly in caps though - perhaps the mods could fix it)
 
I dunno.

Given vacuum decay or some other unforseen cosmic weirdness could effectuvely annihilate reality, why would there be an afterlife?

And did the afterlife begin with humans?

Can't see a need for trilobites to go on existing once they're done.

Doesn't make any sense to me, even if it is appealling.
 
I am going to stay away from any kind of religious doctrine to try to comment on this difficult subject.

To ask if there is life after death is like asking where did the universe come from.

Since no one has returned from the dead, death is a mystery.

As Mr. Spock from Star Trek would say that the human in us would like to think there is something after death.

I personally would like to think death is not the final stage.
 
charliebrown said:
Since no one has returned from the dead, death is a mystery.
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What if they had spiritually visited heaven in a trance or dream or during a Near Death Experience, then returned to wake up?

What if they had returned by being reincarnated in another life or lives?

It is not proven yet by science, but science does allow for it.
If energy is a constant in the universe, then there could be a value assigned to the individual's "Soul/Consiousness" which has to exist somewhere or in some form after the death of the body.
 
Ah, Victory you have good points.

The Law of The Conservation of Matter says you can not create or destroy matter, but matter can be transformed.

In Reincarnation, maybe I will come back as someone rich instead of a cow.

In near death experiences dreams and experiences, is that the brain playing tricks to ease the body through death ?

Just lots of questions and no answers.
 
@charliebrown

In my religion (Judaism) there is a fair amount of belief/writings about the Soul and what it exists of, and about Reincarnation.

Reincarnation plays a big part in explaining certain events...the gist of it is that you are reincarnated to do things in life that you failed to do in a previous one, especially with regard to rectifying sins, or making amends to people you wronged.

It's also discussed with reference to who was reincarnated as whom and why.

So I admit I view this discussion through the lens of my faith.
 
charliebrown said:
Ah, Victory you have good points.

The Law of The Conservation of Matter says you can not create or destroy matter, but matter can be transformed.

In Reincarnation, maybe I will come back as someone rich instead of a cow.

In near death experiences dreams and experiences, is that the brain playing tricks to ease the body through death ?

Just lots of questions and no answers.
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I have met 3 people who have seen there dead relatives as one young lady was in bed and said her uncle worked into the bedroom and look at her in a confused state and then shut the door and she thought he might of popped in the house late as he wasn't there before she went to bed...the next day she found out he dead at home on that very night.
The other is a lady who said 2 years after her Grans death so turned around in the kitchen at midday and her Gran was there and asked ' Are you okay" before disappearing.
3rd is a camera man who told me a few days after his dad died he was in bed and his dad appeared to him in the suit he always wore in his latter part of his life and just said' Tell your mother I'm in a better place' then vanished.
I try and find the youtube clip on a 1997 ( I think) Tv show on the Paranormal about commercial flight pilot who pumped into a fellow pilot and friend but the pilot in question had dead the day before ?
 
Every religion has a mysterious side like reincarnation.

In the past my wife claims she saw her deceased father just after he died to tell her that he was OK.

My wife saw him a second time to tell her even though her mother was really bad with cancer, that she would not die this night and her mother did get better for a while.

So, there is evidence of life after death in a different existence.

It would be nice to think a dead family member is watching over us.
 
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If someone dies who had no religious beliefs, or maybe even a hardcore skeptic and it turns out there is in fact an afterlife, what happens then?

Would there be some form of punishment, or perhaps it makes no difference?

Depends on what religion God is actually the head of and what the rules are?
 
If one has no religious beliefs, I guess it is up to that person to figure it out for him or her.

Stephen Hawking did not think there was anything when one dies.

Stephen said his body was like a computer and when the energy ran out, there is nothing.
 
I personally do believe that something survives our physical death. I'm sure that science currently does not have the tools to iinvestigate the matter and I suspect it has no particular inclination to do so.

I personally find it strange that some can quote science as we currently understand it to indicate that there is no life after death. If there is an intelligence that exists outside of our understanding, why quote what feeble knowledge we do know to indicate it doesn't exist. I say feeble because if there is a supreme consciousness it should exist outside of our scientific knowledge.

I do understand that is in human nature to hope that we exist after physical death.
 
Here's the Paranormal Scholar documentary on their YouTube channel: In Search of the Dead.

The comments section is full of people's own stories. Worth a read in itself.


After researching anomalous phenomena for many years, Laura Rowton decided to embark upon a journey of discovery in search of proof of life after death.

In Search of the Dead follows her across Europe as she interviews renowned academics and experts, and shadows experienced ghost hunters and paranormal investigators.

As an open-minded sceptic, her intention is to observe and document the different opinions surrounding the ever-increasing belief in the existence of spirits of the dead.

Yet, before too long she realises that, when handling such emotive subject matter, it is not always possible to remain an unaffected observer.

In Search of the Dead is an independently funded documentary film produced by husband and wife team, Erik and Laura Rowton, through their production company Ethereal Productions.
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escargot said:
Bereavement sorts out one's attitude to death PDQ.
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Certainly does. Over the past handful of years I've seen relatives and friends die well before what should have been their full allotted time, two of whom were terrified of dying. A touch unnerving as I apparently rapidly approach my dotage. You would hope that they might be offered another "go" at it, but I have my doubts.
As I've said before I will be a touch dischuffed if, in the final second of my life, all I get is a "That's all there is Pete, nothing else, move along now". If I do come back, and as a bloke, I'll make sure this time I shack up with some gorgeous much younger bird and have a great time …. oh wait...:chuckle:
 
PeteS said:
Certainly does. Over the past handful of years I've seen relatives and friends die well before what should have been their full allotted time, two of whom were terrified of dying. A touch unnerving as I apparently rapidly approach my dotage. You would hope that they might be offered another "go" at it, but I have my doubts.
As I've said before I will be a touch dischuffed if, in the final second of my life, all I get is a "That's all there is Pete, nothing else, move along now". If I do come back, and as a bloke, I'll make sure this time I shack up with some gorgeous much younger bird and have a great time …. oh wait...:chuckle:
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As the great Rodney Trotter once said; ''If there is reincarnation, knowing my luck I'll come back as me''.
 
Was a bit shocked today to hear from older relative who is on dialysis. During a fairly recent treatment she felt very tired and lay back, falling asleep. At some point she stopped breathing and her heart stopped. Staff were alerted by the equipment sounding off and she was eventually revived. She was "out of it" for several days thereafter, but could remember nothing, no light, no pearly gates, no mum and dad greeting her and sending her back etc. All she could remember was thinking she was in a hotel in Liverpool - make of that what you will. Tests showed that her blood pressure had plummeted and being sound asleep she would have been unaware. No after effects. Her conclusion was that it would have been a peaceful way to die, no pain, no fear, just endless sleep.
 
PeteS said:
Was a bit shocked today to hear from older relative who is on dialysis. During a fairly recent treatment she felt very tired and lay back, falling asleep. At some point she stopped breathing and her heart stopped. Staff were alerted by the equipment sounding off and she was eventually revived. She was "out of it" for several days thereafter, but could remember nothing, no light, no pearly gates, no mum and dad greeting her and sending her back etc. All she could remember was thinking she was in a hotel in Liverpool - make of that what you will. Tests showed that her blood pressure had plummeted and being sound asleep she would have been unaware. No after effects. Her conclusion was that it would have been a peaceful way to die, no pain, no fear, just endless sleep.
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I suppose that's 2nd best option dying just not being aware of anything BUT I like to I still like the over 1st option our consciousness lives on eternal.
 
But is there a difference between life and personality (for want of a better term)? Reincarnation may be life after death but, except in special circumstances usually used to "prove" reincarnation, not survival of the personality. At what point does life acquire a personality? Does a bee have a personality - does the hive?


It also seems that we are now unable to define life. I was taught the old, respire, reproduce, etc. definitions but it now seems that these are fudged by viruses, AI and maybe our old friends tardigrades which almost seem to revive from apparent death - Shrodinger's tardigrade anyone?


We can't make life from non-life, even AI depends on a biological creator and we can't define it; so surely we have to be cautious about how it ends or at least how it leaves the collection of chemicals it inhabits.


Alternatively, I'm talking rubbish; as usual.

:dunno:
 
Tunn11 said:
But is there a difference between life and personality (for want of a better term)? Reincarnation may be life after death but, except in special circumstances usually used to "prove" reincarnation, not survival of the personality. At what point does life acquire a personality? Does a bee have a personality - does the hive?


It also seems that we are now unable to define life. I was taught the old, respire, reproduce, etc. definitions but it now seems that these are fudged by viruses, AI and maybe our old friends tardigrades which almost seem to revive from apparent death - Shrodinger's tardigrade anyone?


We can't make life from non-life, even AI depends on a biological creator and we can't define it; so surely we have to be cautious about how it ends or at least how it leaves the collection of chemicals it inhabits.


Alternatively, I'm talking rubbish; as usual.

:dunno:
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Interesting points Tunn- and not rubbish!
Whilst I believe ( as an atheist )-that when we’re done , we’re done-and to paraphrase Captain Jack “ When you die, it just goes black”...
A question, or two, if I may, and if one avoids the general belief system standard that an afterlife is some form of “ reward”-
why should there be an afterlife or survival anyway- what evolutionary purpose would it serve, and without some deity/ spirit/ power etc organising things, how on earth ( no pun intended) would it have come about?
 
Was it quantum theorists who have proved to themselves that the electrical energy in your brain can't just vanish when you die?

Whether your mind is attached to this energy when it leaves your body or not, I take lots of comfort from this fact, as it means that part of me does continue (even if I'm unaware of it.)
 
What Tyler said:
Interesting points Tunn- and not rubbish!
Whilst I believe ( as an atheist )-that when we’re done , we’re done-and to paraphrase Captain Jack “ When you die, it just goes black”...
A question, or two, if I may, and if one avoids the general belief system standard that an afterlife is some form of “ reward”-
why should there be an afterlife or survival anyway- what evolutionary purpose would it serve, and without some deity/ spirit/ power etc organising things, how on earth ( no pun intended) would it have come about?
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Thanks! I suppose I'm just wondering whether life is a basic force that manifests itself in different forms across the universe. If it stops being in one collection of cells it is still around elsewhere. If some manifestations develop a personality or consciousness it is secondary and is wiped out when life departs from whatever form it is in. The same sort of way that the chemicals that form us came from the death of stars or as sdoig says the energy in the brain can't vanish. But matter and energy we, sort of, understand. Life as I said above we can't even define.
I'm beginning to sound like a hippy! If I start rambling about orbs and vortices lead me gently away. :)
 
What Tyler said:
Interesting points Tunn- and not rubbish!
Whilst I believe ( as an atheist )-that when we’re done , we’re done-and to paraphrase Captain Jack “ When you die, it just goes black”...
A question, or two, if I may, and if one avoids the general belief system standard that an afterlife is some form of “ reward”-
why should there be an afterlife or survival anyway- what evolutionary purpose would it serve, and without some deity/ spirit/ power etc organising things, how on earth ( no pun intended) would it have come about?
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Why must it serve an evolutionary purpose? Turning things on their head, maybe evolution serves an otherworldly purpose. No reason to prefer one over the other. Perhaps "spiritual" (for want of a better word) existence organises biological existence.
 
SimonBurchell said:
Why must it serve an evolutionary purpose? Turning things on their head, maybe evolution serves an otherworldly purpose. No reason to prefer one over the other. Perhaps "spiritual" (for want of a better word) existence organises biological existence.
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Yes, I can concur that it doesn’t have to be a preference of spiritual over biological- it’s just that in evolutionary terms, little or anything is without some “purpose”, I feel; whilst I don’t believe life has a “plan” per se, and there’s certainly no absolute reason or certainty that H.Sapiens ( or possibly any form of self aware species has to even exist - I still feel the question of why we should expect a survival of death- in any form- remains, at least for this bunch of atoms a key one.
I mean, the Universe is utterly indifferent to us, after all I think it’s just as amazing -or even more- imho- that give chemicals nigh on 14 Billion years to bang together, you get life here and then something like us, rather than the existence of some deity/ energy / spirit arranging the scenery in the background...if only we could recognise that wonder more than arguing over what flavour of “God” is correct and or hoping / gambling whether we will be rewarded once we shuffle off this mortal coil, I sincerely believe would make our World a better place, and I feel that the shedding or growing out of religion is a true mark of a species maturity.
 
Whatever the answer is, people have been pondering it for centuries.
There's a famous passage in Bede's Eccleciastical History of the English People

"O king, it seems to me that this present life of man on earth, in comparison to that time which is unknown to us, is as if you were sitting at table in the winter with your ealdormen and thegns, and a fire was kindled and the hall warmed, while it rained and snowed and stormed outside. A sparrow came in, and swiftly flew through the hall; it came in at one door, and went out at the other. Now during the time when he is inside, he is not touched by the winter's storms; but that is the twinkling of an eye and the briefest of moments, and at once he comes again from winter into winter. In such a way the life of man appears for a brief moment; what comes before, and what will follow after, we do not know."
 
At this point having read many many books, articles, watched videos etc over a good number of years on the varied categories of evidence and anecdote suggestive of survival - near death experiences, reincarnation memories, apparitions and after death communications, deathbed visions, mediumistic communications etc - it is very difficult to come away not accepting the likelihood of continued survival after bodily death. Likelihood doesn't mean certainty. I wouldn't gamble on it. But the sheer volume of material is hard to ignore or dismiss.

While there are of course as many variations in details and sometimes bizarre idiosyncracies as there are people to tell their tales, the broad thrust of the description of this out of the body existence is the same over and over and over again. And leaving aside the well known cliches of bright lights, dead relatives and life reviews, the elements which i read/hear/see ad infinitum but which seem never to be the subject of materialist or physiological theories or even commentary are the assertions of both returnees and alleged disembodied communicators that that other place is much more real than this one, that that is home and this isn't and that the sense of being loved and surrounded by pure love is absolute and inexpressible. I don't recall anyone being asked what they mean by the word love in this context, but they all seem to rush to it. It doesn't seem to be a reference to physical sensations.

It seems to me that experience of these categories of evidence are akin to lucid dreaming. The majority of us never have them, but a fair percentage of the population do. They *know* its real. Just as a lucid dreamer knows that's real and the rest of us - the majority, who never experience it - just have to accept their word for it, or not.

What elevates these "other people's experiences" in my personal estimation to plausibly true are my own experiences of the fortean. That's to say convinced to my own satisfaction, if no one else's, that psi is real..then i have to use the word "know" rather than "think" when i say that mind extends beyond and perhaps exists outside the brain. "Knowing" that, then accepting it may exist without the physical brain at all is a much less dramatic leap of imagination.
 
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