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Aleister Crowley

World-Class Cuddler

Andro - Well yes, but Cthulhu's got the arms for cuddlin'. Or the tentacles, at any rate.

They SHOULD sell Esoteric Erasers in the form of Crowley's bald, er, tonsured head, though, so we can rub out those inadvertent bean-spillings we pencil into our books of shadows every now and then...

The adult version of the Esoteric Eraser has an anatomically correct little Aleister under the robes, so when you flip it upside down to rub out your indescretion, whoopsie, tantric surprise!
 
Is there any real reason why AC has continued to be a tragic hero for idiot misfits?

The guy molested children and tortured and killed animals for fun, and mostly likely raped unwilling women and tortured them. I also hear he drank from paper cups.

This kind of thing happens every day. Wrapping it esoteric rituals doesn't change it. His court case proved he was a delusional loser of the highest rank.
 
Re: Alester Crowley and the Philosopher Stoned

Niles Calder said:
Oh and... J.K, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery; enjoy your millions since this is in no way intended to take them from you or infringe your copyrights.
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Couldn't we just take some of her millions? She'd hardly miss them. And besides, does she really deserve them?

The problem with Crowley is that no-one remembers the trial. The wannabes that claim to be inspired by him have only read one or two of his books (and he wrote lots of them), and probably one or two books by others inspired by him. In fact, most of them probably haven't actually read his stuff. Hell they probably can't even pronounce his name properly. (Rhymes with "holy" was his standard answer. I still pronounce it the other way, just to piss him off. Assuming he's capable of hearing me wherever he wound up. Sorry: wound down.)
 
*Trying to keep in mind how much I have loved this forum for the last year and desperately not wanting to get flamed*

Am I allowed to post anything serious on this thread or is it to remain purely in the realms if idle speculation?

The guy molested children and tortured and killed animals for fun, and mostly likely raped unwilling women and tortured them. I also hear he drank from paper cups.
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Picking a quote from Ogo, but directing comments to everyone else.

Most of what people know about Crowley was dredged from the news media of the time, mostly tabloids. Am I to assume that these newspapers wrote only the 'truth' based on 'fact' just as they do nowadays? Or am I to assume that such newspapers are no more reliable to report supposed scandal than they are nowadays? A few remarks taken out of context and general wild speculation sells a fair few papers.
mostly likely raped unwilling women and tortured them
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Is this based on any source in particular or are you just guessing?

I'm not trying to make out he was some great guy, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here guys. He was a bit of a Tommy Tanker, in more ways than one, but if you'd read more than one or two of his books, maybe it would become more apparent why he's still in the public consciousness.

Wannabe Idiot Misfit.
 
Heard a number of interesting stories about Crowley from his climbing days in the Lake District, before he started making aliving from the occult.
Apparently he was a real pain to climb with because he was obsessed with his own safety. This led to rows about routes during climbs, refusing to take his turn at the front and so on.

For someone so keen to present himself as not of this world he was certainly very keen to make sue he didn't leave.
 
Physick said:
For someone so keen to present himself as not of this world he was certainly very keen to make sue he didn't leave.
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this dont suprise me at all. Its classic Psycotic mind set. Everyone is there to be used and i am the only important one. in a lot of ways Crowleys life can be seen as an atatempt to annoy his mum. (who was Plymouth bretherin) Haveing said that he was not without charm i think and played on it to all its extent, after all he lived well for a long time on others money. Tho as with a lot of "right men" he exposes his weekness in drug adiction etc...
 
Hmmmm, typical. Making picky comments about Crowley is like shooting fish in a barrel and, for the last fifty-odd years, like shooting dead fish in a barrel!

History seems to be full of these people who are easy scapegoats. There are plenty of people out there who are complete arseholes, people who rape children, commit murder and other attrocities, but most of these go unnoticed. But somehow there are people like Crowley who seem to rub the media up the wrong way, and voila, they're infamous for years after their death! Take a hike Dharma, Berkowitz and Manson, you can't compare!

I guess the trouble with Crowley is that he had his ups and downs, and went from being a great mountain-climber (by many testimonies other than his own) to a disaster on the Kanchenjunga. Similarly, one might also guess that he had moments of greatness in his spiritual pursuits, but that he also, to some extent, had his downpoints in this too. At the end of the day, looking back on life, haven't we all?

I think that what set Crowley apart are two things.

Firstly, he absolutely LOVED upsetting the media! He was like a kid on Christmas morning whenever scandals broke. This is why he didn't try to deny any of the ridiculous accusations made against him - until, that is, he was penniless and saw, years before the American nation caught the fad, that libel could be profitable!

Secondly, he had a driving ambition. He didn't just learn chess when he was bored - he mastered it to a rare level. He didn't just go for a hike - he became obsessed with mountain climbing. He also managed to somehow reach excesses of what some might call sin, coupled with what others might call holiness. His sex drive must have been huge - his records of prostitutes bought in New York are phenomenal.

But in hindsight, was this really such a big deal? He did lots of drugs - today he'd probably hang out with rock stars! He had lots of sex - ditto! He was rich, he could afford it! This is really the limit of his proven excess - not much by today's standards! Charlotte Church will have been through similar by the time she's 30!

For those of us who actually find value in his work, just as others might find value in the Bible, Dhammapada, Lord of the Rings or whatever they like, I think it's worth putting up with Crowley's faults. And taking cheap shots at a dead guy isn't so tough!

See ya,

S
 
Well said, HubbyRice!
I was going to post on this thread but couldn't really be bothered ... I am no Crowley-apologist .... but I have always wondered what is so terribly wrong with being a rampant messianic drug-addled bisexual with a history of unfortunate camping trips and a string of unread and sometimes unreadable books behind you ..... seems as good a way of spending a life as any ... I guess the media outrage of the day lives on in the collective consciousness ..... and not much of that would raise an eyebrow these days.
I struggle somewhat with a lot of his writing and ideas but you cannot doubt his contribution to the Western Esoteric Tradition, even if only in raising its profile .... and as for the rest .... as you say, there are worse people .....

.... actually the real reason I wasn't going to post was because I couldn't think of a witty continuation of Niles' original idea, which has been rather hijacked by this tired old argument! :D
 
I find it fascinating how you only have to mention AC and suddenly the discussion becomes completely polarised. On the one hand you have those who say he was an evil, baby-eating, murderous pervert, or a sad git depending on whether you’re religious or just find Satanism distasteful, then you have those with a huge chip on their shoulder about Christianity who think he was a wonderful guy and will stick up for him at every opportunity. Some of the gushing admiration people have for him sounds to me almost like a teenage girl’s infatuation with the latest boy band.
I’m waiting for someone to shrug and say “he was alright, I s’pose.”
 
That would be me, then.
Interesting chap, but I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
 
I have no opinion about him either because I know nothing about him. From what I do know, he just sounds like a headline grabbing attention seeker who cultivated a naughty image in the midst of a repressed society in order to get regular sex from slack-jawed acolytes.

Or maybe I’m just being cynical.
 
Dark Detective said:
I find it fascinating how you only have to mention AC and suddenly the discussion becomes completely polarised.
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:D Then perhaps you should have taken the time to read my Machiavellian work of art, essay-length post on the topic! :rolleyes: I'm wasted on the masses...;)
 
Dark Detective said:
I have no opinion about him either because I know nothing about him.
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... and this would explain why you made the ignorant comment earlier about Satanism. It always makes me chuckle to see people posting so blatantly about topics which they even admit knowing nothing about.

Rather than simply being bitchy, I'm trying to make a point about Crowley's philosophy. It's got nothing to do with Satanism, nothing to do with any religion in fact, but it has everything to do with the destruction of the personal ego with a view to following one's True Will in life, that Great Work that we could all accomplish, whatever that might be for us individually.

A good start for some people might be to resist talking about that which we know nothing!

Dark Detective said:
From what I do know, he just sounds like a headline grabbing attention seeker who cultivated a naughty image in the midst of a repressed society in order to get regular sex from slack-jawed acolytes.
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Walk into any nightclub in the world on a Saturday night, and tell me if you can see any people trying to manipulate other people into having casual sex.

Yep, Crowley sure was a monster... :rolleyes:

S
 
Walk into a nightclub on a Saturday night and tell me if you see any people...
 
Inverurie Jones said:
Walk into a nightclub on a Saturday night and tell me if you see any people...
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:rofl: Well said, and spoken like a true elitist! "Every man and every woman is a star"... except for those common football hooligan lager lout commoner types... ;)
 
Dark Detective said:
See what I mean? All it took was the tiniest bit of bait :D
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Ah, I see, you're one of those people who write pointless, ignorant comments, then take the piss out of people who write coherent, sensible replies. A product of the internet, because you'd have no teeth left if you tried to enter into conversations like that in real life... :rolleyes:
 
Crowley Bashers

The Crowley bashers dig their own graves, and those who do so from a position of ignorance are dead to begin with.

Ignore them and concentrate instead on reading and studying, and yes even emulating, Crowley. His work lives on precisely because it is stronger than all the dirt the idiot monkeys can throw.
 
HubbyRice said:
........people like Crowley who seem to rub the media up the wrong way, and voila, they're infamous for years after their death!

Firstly, he absolutely LOVED upsetting the media! He was like a kid on Christmas morning whenever scandals broke.......he had a driving ambition. He didn't just learn chess when he was bored - he mastered it to a rare level. He didn't just go for a hike - he became obsessed with mountain climbing.

He also managed to somehow reach excesses of what some might call sin, coupled with what others might call holiness. He did lots of drugs - today he'd probably hang out with rock stars! He had lots of sex - ditto!
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I am no more impressed by this than I am when I review the life of the late, great Bill Hicks.

Nor do I see it as a seperate form of genius than that of a typical manic depressive and obsessive compulsive who is currently in their manic/hyper stage where they fleet from hobby to hobby.

Saying that.....I love Hicks and cant stand Crowley.
 
Who?

Who's Hicks? Some comedian, I believe.

Rather odd comparison, I'd say.

And if you can't stand Crowley, you're failing the litmus test.

I'm sure you imagine you don't care to pass such a test, but you'll see, if your esoteric studies go long enough and deeply enough.
 
Frankly I admire Crowley for his exploration of *self* by regecting all of societies rigid values and trying to work out his own unique morals and path.

He never actually forced people to do anything they did not want to do, it was all consensual. I dont see anything wrong with that.

I still think he was a bit of a loon mind....
 
Re: Who?

FraterLibre said:
And if you can't stand Crowley, you're failing the litmus test.

I'm sure you imagine you don't care to pass such a test, but you'll see, if your esoteric studies go long enough and deeply enough.
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Ah. But, you're not British. We've had a few like him, you know, Oscar Wilde, Somerset Maugham, Noel Coward, Benny Hill, etc. Talented, dilettante and strange. Can't speak for St C, but us lower orders types just tend to lump them all together. :D
 
Now Now

Falling back on True Brit bigotry is just silly, and none of those others you mention were in anything like Crowley's category, or vice versa for that matter.

Oscar Wilde was simply a flaming gay nonconformist, and is perhaps the most comparable to AC in some ways, but was not an occultist, not interested in self development, and not involved with much beyond his own ego, which is the antithesis of AC, in fact.

Somerset Maugham, gay novelist, was effete and self-lacerating, again nothing like AC, who did in fact write several excellent modern novels that outstrip any of Maugham's conventional little melodramas and romances.

Noel Coward? Again, a happy stage hound and talented writer of witty things, about as serious as a peck on the left buttock.

Benny Hill? I am flabbergasted to see Benny Hill compared to AC, it's hilarious, far funnier than Mr. Hill's sexist routines ever were.

I'm amazed at how deep the prejudice against Uncle Al runs, and it never fails to further astound me how others view him.

Benny HILL? Now, had you cited the esoteric and mysteriously powerful Rowan Atkinson / Mr. Bean duad...

roflmao!
 
Re: Now Now

FraterLibre said:
Falling back on True Brit bigotry is just silly,
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Well, Duh! :p

Benny HILL? Now, had you cited the esoteric and mysteriously powerful Rowan Atkinson / Mr. Bean duad...
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Rowan Atkinson, master of the dark arts, though he may be, is still incarnate and so does not fall into the category of strange, dead, Englishmen. Vivian Stanshall, though.... :p
 
Yeah! I know, Oscar Wilde was Irish. I just felt like including him. ;)
 
Well...

Wilde was Irish but he did wear clothing, so he counts.

As for poor Mr. Bean, he seems pretty dead to me. Of course, I am a Yank now and then.
 
Re: Who?

FraterLibre said:
Who's Hicks? Some comedian, I believe.

Rather odd comparison, I'd say.
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Oh come come, dear boy..........You cant deny knowing who he is and then claim to believe that it is an odd comparison. The aspects of Crowleys life that I highlighted through the craft of quoting was stunningly similar to that of Bill Hicks. Your, "Who?" remark simply re-enforces my point. You dont know who he is and yet he lives up to these "amazing" aspects that you uphold in Crowley. Read the quote again and see that the things I highlighted are....Bill Hicks.

And if you can't stand Crowley, you're failing the litmus test.

I'm sure you imagine you don't care to pass such a test, but you'll see, if your esoteric studies go long enough and deeply enough.
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I sat your test when I was eight. Shite!;)
 
Beastly Behavior

St.Clair said:
Oh come come, dear boy..........You cant deny knowing who he is and then claim to believe that it is an odd comparison. The aspects of Crowleys life that I highlighted through the craft of quoting was stunningly similar to that of Bill Hicks. Your, "Who?" remark simply re-enforces my point. You dont know who he is and yet he lives up to these "amazing" aspects that you uphold in Crowley. Read the quote again and see that the things I highlighted are....Bill Hicks.



I sat your test when I was eight. Shite!;)
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Come out from behind your ego a moment, and listen. I am not anyone's dear boy. I never heard of this Hicks fellow and so did some web searches, found out, and then wrote my response, which I stand by. What amazing aspects do you imagine I apply to Mr. Crowley, who was adamant about exactly and precisely being NOT amazing, but simply a person, and not a very good one at that. The things you highlight are nonsensical echoes of deeper things misunderstood by surface-skimmers.


I will however bow to your obviously vastly superior knowledge, integrity, and advancement in matters of maturity, soul, and esoterica.

Heck, who wouldn't?
 
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