Alternative 3

stu neville

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Can't quite see the connection there, Bill...
 

Jerry_B

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Re: RE:Disclaimers

Bill said:
Yes i heard about these disclaimers,but if were in there shoes and i was warned of the conciquences by a govermental power i might call it a day to.
ps;colour TV was happening in Germany in the 1040es(but the war delayed its modification), only the eleate(higer class) had acces to it .
Firstly, if A3 were indeed true, why did the nefarious powers that be allow it to be broadcast in the first place? Surely they, in all their power, would've nipped it in the bud before then?

Secondly, TV sets in Germany in the 1940s weren't completely a plaything of the rich - there were salons where anyone could walk off of the street and watch TV if they wanted to. It was used as a propoganda device and thus hardly all that useful just to keep in the hands of the elite.
 
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Anonymous

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Also found Scott Tracy aka Shane Rimmer, who was also in Captain Scarlett, UFO,Emmerdale Farm and numerous Bond Movies...

Shane
Rimmer played the part of the fictitious astronaut, Bob Grodin. Rimmer is a well known science fiction and spy thriller writer who also does voice-overs.
He has acted in numerous popular films and television spy dramas, including a James Bond movie. He was also the famous voice of Captain Scot Tracy in Thunderbirds.
Source:- http://www.beyond-the-illusion.com/files/New-Files/990930/alt3-saga-lives-on.txt

:)
 
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Anonymous

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RE; the hoaks.

Thank you Jerry B for pointing out about German TV in the 40es.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I should mention that A/3 talks about more than going to Mars.
It's reason for existance is the fact that WE the human race are doing are best to destroy this beutiful planet,the nature and in the end OURSELVES.
Going to Mars would be an answer for some,but the rest of us would have to stay here and die in are own mess(if you get my drift)
Also A/3 talks about what the Russian were doing in there mental instiutions to both sane and insane people,i remember in the 50/60 people where trying to get the Russians to open up and tell us what they were doing.
We have come along way since then and now we(well a least some of us) now know what they where up to.
One result of this is happening to day,there is an hour long operation that can be performed on junkies to get rid of there habit,it is quite a simple operation on the right side of the brain to remove the part of the brain that wants more junk.
It can be peformed at a clinic in Moscow.
Also A/3 talked about SPONTAINIUS HUMAN COMBUSTION or hot jobs,i know how this can happen,the human body under certain conditions can go into a melt down like a nuclear power plant((((will explane about this another time))))OR it can be induced by man made methods,EX the microwave.
A/3 does have a reason for it's existance,even though it's authors have disclaimed it as being a hoaks.
The hoaks is unfortunatly as real as the day it was written and unfortunatly it is happening in this reality.
Bill.
 
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Anonymous

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errrr... sorry to intrude...im just going to back out now...slowly...bye>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 

Timble2

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Bill have you actually seen Alternative 3?

I saw the thing and though it's very well done it is fiction in the style of a science documentary. A lot of people have already posted that fact that it's got a cast list with several well known character actors.

The book is also fiction, in the style of a documentary. It just pulled together a lot of the then current paranormal preoccupations - there was a book in the 70s called 'Someone Ese is on Our Moon' and several others that played the game of finding alien technology in photographs of the moon - similar to the game that's being played on Mars at the moment - that went into the mix.

Spontaneous human combustion was also a hot topic so into the mix it went.


And to go back to reality...

...Wernher von Braun, a genius no doubt, but who would have supported any political system going to build his spaceships.

It's largely due to WvB that the Americans went to the Moon, but he did a deal and the extent of his real involvement with the Nazi regime was played down. A case can be made for him as a war criminal - the V2 production line was run by slave labour.

It's due to WvB that the Russians have a space programme, since they also captured some V2s and some technicians from the WvB's programme and used them as the basis for their missile programme.

If you're looking for real conspiracies the whitewashing of Werner von Braun is one. (There was a book and a documentry about the paperclip files - I'm sure someone remembers more details.)


'Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.'

Tom Lehrer



And about brain surgery, they're also proposing vaccines so that a person becomes immune to the effects of, say, cocaine.


BTW. I've suggested this elsewhere:
Why not a screening of Alternative 3 at UnCon 2004 (if the rights are available) so that everyone can see what the fuss is about?

Like 'Ghostwatch' last year, I expect people would wonder how it was taken seriously.
 
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Anonymous

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One of the Authors did begin to find strange synchronous things going on, as people becan to mail him things. He was considering writing a non-fiction sequel to A3 outlining where they appeared to have accidentally got it right. He lost his materials en-route to Australia. It was covered in an interview with him in the FT :)

A3 was/is a hoax. What he began to see wasn't

We're getting into a nasty 'nature of reality' debate here...
 
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Anonymous

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Without meaning to drag every last Fortean figure into this one, a number of researchers have commented that they experienced what could be construed as harrassment or even supernatural activity whilst investigating cases which proved to have perfectly everyday explanations.

I think the point is that synchronicity (whatever it's provenance) can be awfully freaky sometimes. Either that or there's something about intense research that attracts weirdness.

[edit] - and I've just been to one of the above links and would like to quote: "(Robert Maxwell) died under mysterious circumstances after his company published one of the last editions of this book".

So now you know. That stolen few million had nowt to do with it.
 

Timble2

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Originally by MrHyde

I think the point is that synchronicity (whatever it's provenance) can be awfully freaky sometimes. Either that or there's something about intense research that attracts weirdness.
I've found that when I've been researching stuff, synchronous events start happening. There's also the 'Library Angel' or 'Library Fairy' phenomenon where you're looking for something really obscure and it just happens to be on shelf or table that you casually glance act, often in a library or bookshop that you never notice before.

I also had the odd experience of creating fictional characters only to run into people exactly like them later on.

I think it's partly to do with attention, the stuff's out there all the time but you generally filter it out.

And if you write a book about anything, someone will write to you to you to tell you that you've got it right/wrong and the truth is....
 

Kondoru

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Timble, it was me who was going to quote that rhyme about WvB...

A man who was indeed once nearly hit by one of his own rockets...
 
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Anonymous

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thinking on it one of the main front men for it was a Childrens Telly presenter... Pipkins if im not mistaken.
 

Mob1138

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Is there any sign of an official DVD release of this yet? I seem to remember gossip from a few years back suggesting the BFI were looking into it.
 

chockfullahate

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Re: Authenticity in Alternative 3

Timble2 said:
Chant said:
Can I just ask, though? I have read the apollo transmissions quoted somewhere else, only, as REAL transmissions edited out by NASA. That's why I was confused.

Are these real bits of fact interwoven into the fabric of the hoax for credibility or are the 'transmissions' a hoax as part of the book? If so, then another very credible book I've read is guilty of misinformation.:mad:
A lot of the stuff in Alternative 3 is cited without attribution by other UFO/conspiracy books and websites without sorting out the fact and fiction.

I've tried to sort out some of the stuff, but this could take weeks if I did it thoroughly

Anything attributed to Bob Grodin is fictional he’s a fictional character, played by Shane Rimmer, who was the voice of Scott Tracey in Thunderbirds (who was named after Scott Carpenter, the second of the Mercury Astronauts)

In the book he’s introduced after some true facts about ex-Apollo astronauts,
Edgar Mitchell, did become interested in parapsychology and now promotes the ETH and alien contact as real. James Irwin did become a minister, regarding his flight on Apollo 15 as a religious experience.

The trick is to drop in two strange but true facts and then sneak in strange but bogus factoid

The chap whose supposed to have revealed the missing segment of the Apollo 11 transmission.


Otto Binder was a member of the NASA space team. He has
stated that NASA "killed" significant segments of
conversation between Mission Control and Apollo 11 - the
space-craft which took Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong to the
Moon - and that those segments were deleted from the official
record: "Certain sources with their own VHF receiving
facilities that by-passed NASA broadcast outlets claim there
was a portion of Earth-Moon dialogue that was quickly cut off
by the NASA monitoring staff."
Binder added: "It was presumably when the two moon-
walkers, Aldrin and Armstrong, were making the rounds some
distance from the LEM that Armstrong clutched Aldrin's arm
excitedly and exclaimed - "What was it? What the hell was
it? That's all I want to know."
Then, according to Binder, there was this exchange -

MISSION CONTROL: What's there ? ... malfunction
(garble) ... Mission Control calling Apollo 11...
APOLLO 11: Theses babies were huge, sir...enormous....
...Oh, God you wouldn't believe it!...I'm telling
you there are other space-craft out there...lined
up on the far side of the crater edge...they're on
the Moon watching us...
The chap who is supposed to have originated this story – there was an Otto Binder who was an SF writer, also as Eando Binder with his brother – The ‘I Robot’ Story on both the original and new Outer limits series was one of his from a series of stories ‘Adam Link- Robot’ (Asimov of course used the same title for a collection of his robot stories).

Later in life Otto Binder wrote here some UFO/ancient alien books including ‘Mankind Child of the Stars’ with Max H Flindt (of whom I can find nothing except what’s cited here http://www.ozarkmt.com/flindtbinder.shtml).

The name’s an SF in joke.

If you Google for Otto Binder NASA, you mainly come up with the quote above (or paraphrases of it), cited as real by people including Timothy Good, and inevitably on David Icke’s site.

I think this one’s made up.

NASA Mission Control at
Houston and the Lunar Command Module Pilot during a 1972 moon
mission. And Clements puzzled over it when he first played
it at the Sceptre studios:


MISSION CONTROL: More detail, please. Can you give
more detail of what you are seeing?
LUNAR MODULE PILOT: It's...something flashing. That's
That's all so far. Just a light going on and off
by the edge of the crater.
MISSION CONTROL: Can you give the co-ordinates?
LUNAR MODULE PILOT: There's something down
there...Maybe a little further down.
MISSION CONTROL: It couldn't be a Vostok, could it?
LUNAR MODULE PILOT: I can't be sure...it's possible.
I can’t track this, the Apollo astronauts did see odd lights on the moon, I suspect this is a paraphrase of something from the Apollo 17 mission.



SCOTT: Arrowhead really runs east to west.
MISSION CONTROL: Roger, we copy.
IRWIN: Right...we're (garble)...we know that's a
fairly good run. We're bearing 320, hitting range
for 413...I can't get over those lineations, that
layering on Mount Hadley.
SCOTT: I can't either. That's really spectacular.
IRWIN: They sure look beautiful.
SCOTT: Talk about organization!
IRWIN: That's the most organized structure I've ever
seen!
SCOTT: It's (garble)...so uniform in width...
IRWIN: Nothing we've seen before this has shown such
uniform thickness from the top of the tracks to
the bottom.
From a transcription of the actual flight journal (Worden was the third crew member At http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/ap15fj/11day5_wakeup.htm

095:03:51 Worden: There's a very interesting little fissure just below us here, Bob. It looks like there might be a little flow coming out of it, but it's - it's almost an arrowhead-shaped affair. And, it certainly doesn't have any features like any - any impact. It's very sharp and distinct and makes a very distinct arrowhead. Here we come up on the ridges on the west side of Serenitatis, just at the foothills of the Hadley Apennines.

095:04:18 Worden: And you can see, there is - there is some relief as we look back to the south there, there is some very distinct relief in - in - in the shore of Serenitatis, with some wrinkle ridges that follow the contour.

095:04:34 Worden: And some - what look like fairly distinct arcuate rilles that also follow the contour. I think that when we get up very close here, you can see...

095:04:44 Worden: ...In - in the field of view there right now is a lineament that looks like it might be some sort of a collapsed lava tube, and you can also see down in here the - the mare material looks like it's pooling in the - in the foothills of the mountains; and in some places, you can even see what appears to be a frozen shoreline, so to speak.
Again a paraphrase/adaptation

Two Soviet Cosmonauts failed yesterday to dock
their Soyuz-25 craft with the Salyut-6 orbiting
laboratory.
Mission commander Vladimir Kovalyonok and flight
engineer Valery Ryumin, thought to be planning a long
stay aboard the new space station, were ordered back to
Earth after abandoning the link-up.
This is true, the flight lasted From 9–11 October 1977

Here http://www.aerospaceguide.net/spacestation/salyut6.html

Again this is the Alternative 3 Method drop in snippets of fact into fictional scenario.

The book gets quite postmodern at times incorporating a real complaint by the late Mary Whitehouse (a veteran anti-TV campaigner) with completely fictional complaints about upsetting the families of fictional people (e.g. Sir William Ballantine) by spreading lies about them

This is just a sample of the way the book works – don’t believe everything you read.
otto binder also wrote a lot of superman comics for dc. amongst other comics.
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks - will check it out. I haven't seen A3 since it was first aired; however, I did re-read the book about 6 months ago...it really doesn't stand up at all does it :lol: (reads more like a badly written novel).
 

Mob1138

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I dug out my old and very worn video of A3 to watch again for the first time in years and it really still is quite smashing, even after nearly 30 years has passed.
 

poozler

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I have just been reading about the ''Alternative 3'' television broadcast made in the UK in 1977. Does anyone here remember the show? If so, do you know anyone who actually believed it was a factual report rather than fiction/a hoax (or do YOU believe it was factual rather than fictional)? I'd be interested to find out more about this from real people who actually remembered or know a lot about the broadcast (Wiki's OK, but ... well ... you know.)

Thanks.
 

Pietro_Mercurios

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Behold, you're Thread has been expanded to include an earlier Thread with exactly the same title. You may find your answers here.

I'm pretty sure that 'Alternative 3' was an ingenious spoof, originally intended to be broadcast on April 1st, April Fool's day.

I believe some of those taking part went on to play other dramatic roles on TV.

P_M :)
 

Fluttermoth

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poozler said:
...
do you know anyone who actually believed it was a factual report rather than fiction/a hoax
...
My next door neighbour, Crazy Chris, does, bless him. Well; he knows it was a drama and not a documentary, but he does think the story is real, if you know what I mean.
But Chris believes everything! Nazi bases on Mars, the LHC scientists are creating another universe with different laws, the Queen's a lizard, really everything.
 

poozler

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P_M, thanks for finding this and bringing the thread back to the future for me. (I DID do a search--I couldn't imagine FTers NOT talking about this at some point in time--but it came up blank for some reason).

Lots of great reading here. I will work my way through slowly and methodically.

And thank you, Fluttermoth, for your neighbour's response.

I guess that French 'docu-comedy' Dark Side of the Moon/Operation Lune that was broadcast here (Australia) on 1 April got its cue from the much earlier UK documentary. I remember watching Dark Side of the Moon, first in awe and confusion, then rolling on the floor spluttering and laughing once I caught on. My husband, who I'd always thought was much quicker than I when it comes to things like this, was totally fooled until I pointed out that noone was actually saying anything of substance and much was obviously taken out of context, and that several of the interview subjects appeared more than a little snockered. (In fact, I think I saw Henry Kissinger with a highball glass in his hand.)

Anyway, I'm off to see if any of the links to the documentary are working and if I can play them.

Thanks again!
 

escargot

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I saw A3 as a teenager, all alone in the house, nobody to discuss it with. I could tell it was a spoof as I'd heard nothing like it anywhere else, which I'd have expected. For some reason I read all the credits and spotted that the date included April 1st. :lol:

Nobody else I knew had seen it and I've never heard it mentioned anywhere else until it came up on here. Like a sort of conspiracy of silence... ;)
 

Mythopoeika

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Sadly, I don't remember seeing this. This might have been the year that my Dad threw the telly out into the back garden in the mistaken belief that doing so would somehow improve my school grades...


Guess what the first thing was that I bought with my first wages when I got a job? You guessed correct, it was a telly...
 

GNC

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I never saw it originally, but do own the DVD. It's very well done, but not too convincing, although I say that with the benefit of knowing it was a hoax before I watched it. Even so, it is farfetched.
 
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