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Any real hidden Occult references in Harry Potter to justify American religous right book burnings? The deatheaters were orginally going to be called the Knights of walpurgis unfortunately she changed it.
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The Religious Right's main stance seems to be based on their belief that witchcraft involves the devil, supplimented with their feeling that Harry is a bad role model for children because when the occasion calls for it he lies, sometimes cheats or breaks rules, and, um, occasionally kills a teacher who is being possessed by an evil meglomaniac.
:monster: Oh sure, like the THOUGHT never even occured to any of rest of you when you were in school, right?
:monster: Oh sure, like the THOUGHT never even occured to any of rest of you when you were in school, right?
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There are no hidden occult references in the HP books: all of the numerous occult references are out in the open for all to see. She's done her research, has J.K. Rowling, and knows magic doesn't work outside of storybooks, so where's the harm. (Ooh, contentious opinion maybe?)KarlR said:
However, none of this justifies book burnings. Book burnings are never justified. Neither are book bannings for that matter. And why is it always the harmless books that get burned anyway? When was the last time you heard of anyone burning copies of Mein Kampf for example?
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There are definite magickal references in the Harry Potter series, but they are comedic distortions of the original ideas and names.
As a practising occultist of almost a lfetime's standing, I have noticed many references to some bizarrely obscure concepts which, when you know the source material, can give that extra boost of entertainment factor, not to mention that feeling of smug self-satisfaction for which we occultists are renowned worldwide.
These books are brilliant beyond words. A must for every Christian bookshelf.
As a practising occultist of almost a lfetime's standing, I have noticed many references to some bizarrely obscure concepts which, when you know the source material, can give that extra boost of entertainment factor, not to mention that feeling of smug self-satisfaction for which we occultists are renowned worldwide.
These books are brilliant beyond words. A must for every Christian bookshelf.
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Any examples?
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Just one example...
In Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone there are allusions to the 14th C. alchemist Nicolas Flamel. In fact, Flamel's an off-stage character, the creator of the titular stone.
Another link here.
In Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone there are allusions to the 14th C. alchemist Nicolas Flamel. In fact, Flamel's an off-stage character, the creator of the titular stone.
Another link here.
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I noticed the other day that there is a symbol on the Chariot tarot card (at least in the Rider Waite deck) that looks exactly like a Snitch - see here for example:
http://www.goldenempire.com/chariots/4.html
I agree with what has been said above - there are loads of occult references in HP but J K Rowling has always said she doesn't believe in magic & intends her books to be read as fiction.
http://www.goldenempire.com/chariots/4.html
I agree with what has been said above - there are loads of occult references in HP but J K Rowling has always said she doesn't believe in magic & intends her books to be read as fiction.
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I think the symbol on the Tarot cards ment to be Ra or whatever Egyptian sun with wings thing is called.
Maybe he is gay he doesn't seem interested in girls much and he spent a lot of the time in the closet or the cupboard maybe that was symbolic.
Maybe he is gay he doesn't seem interested in girls much and he spent a lot of the time in the closet or the cupboard maybe that was symbolic.
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Occult Knowledge In Harry Potter?
Well, if by 'occult' one means, 'hidden,' rather than merely 'magical' knowledge alone, then the really subversive aspect of the books is the anti-authoritarian stance and the explication of the ways of beauraucracy.
These are made particularily explicit in, The Order of the Phoenix,' where the 'Ministry of Magic' (apparently the most important office of power in the wizardly world), will stop at nothing to deny that Voldemort, 'He Who Must Not Be Named,' has returned.
Every trick of spin and skullduggery, even an assassination attempt, is used by the Ministry, it's head 'Fudge,' his underlings and a puppet media.
I'm reading through it at the moment for my 9 year old. Some very powerful and contemporously relevant concepts contained within.
Perhaps, that is the real reason for the ire of the 'religious right?'
Well, if by 'occult' one means, 'hidden,' rather than merely 'magical' knowledge alone, then the really subversive aspect of the books is the anti-authoritarian stance and the explication of the ways of beauraucracy.
These are made particularily explicit in, The Order of the Phoenix,' where the 'Ministry of Magic' (apparently the most important office of power in the wizardly world), will stop at nothing to deny that Voldemort, 'He Who Must Not Be Named,' has returned.
Every trick of spin and skullduggery, even an assassination attempt, is used by the Ministry, it's head 'Fudge,' his underlings and a puppet media.
I'm reading through it at the moment for my 9 year old. Some very powerful and contemporously relevant concepts contained within.
Perhaps, that is the real reason for the ire of the 'religious right?'
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That's one of the reasons I like reading these books, getting the references just improves the fun. But does this mean that I am a sad soul who really should get out more?
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Thanks for that Spoiler Andro :hmph: 
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Don't encourage me.Niles Calder said:Thanks for that Spoiler Andro :hmph:
The number of times I've had that done to me on the Buffy threads.
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Ah humanity at its best, burning a childs story book...
...people can find anything they want if they look hard enough, im sure they would be burning some other book if Harry Potter had not come along.
Its a story, hidden occult refernces or not its fiction. Some people just have to be angry at something.
...people can find anything they want if they look hard enough, im sure they would be burning some other book if Harry Potter had not come along.
Its a story, hidden occult refernces or not its fiction. Some people just have to be angry at something.
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Same applies to the bible, so why aren't they burning that?
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I was happy to notice that his Divination textbook in the Prisoner of Azkaban was written by a Madame Vablatsky. That amused me.
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KarlR said:
Not interested in girls?
er, have you read the last 2 books?
...unless Cho is a bloke in disguise of course
I'm interested to know though dose anyone have any links to news reports of these book burnings or are they just urban legends spread about by people with grudes against religion in general.
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Re: Re: Any hidden Occult references in Harry Potter?
However harmless the book, happily (or unhappily, depending on your POV) burnings/bannings always have the opposite effect the burners/banners intend by making the book immediately more appealing and prompting the curious to want to read it where they otherwise might not have. Works on songs too - would "Relax" (As in, Frankie says...) ever have got to number one if people hadn't rushed out to buy the single to see what the fuss was about? ^_^ As such, maybe a good thing Mein Kampf has never been publically torched, or sales of bootleg copies might go through the roof.
Zygon said:
However harmless the book, happily (or unhappily, depending on your POV) burnings/bannings always have the opposite effect the burners/banners intend by making the book immediately more appealing and prompting the curious to want to read it where they otherwise might not have. Works on songs too - would "Relax" (As in, Frankie says...) ever have got to number one if people hadn't rushed out to buy the single to see what the fuss was about? ^_^ As such, maybe a good thing Mein Kampf has never been publically torched, or sales of bootleg copies might go through the roof.
taras
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Well, the fact that at the dance Harry and Ron are apart for about 3 paragraphs before dumping their respective dates and walking around the garden together.... actually, ignore me...manta said:Not interested in girls?
er, have you read the last 2 books?
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Cho is a one dimensional char who barely rates a footnote in the books IMO.
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Better to drown children than let them read 'homosexual' Harry Potter, says extreme right-wing pastor
Kevin Swanson believes America should repent that Dumbledore 'emerged as a homosexual mentor to Harry Potter'
Jess Denham
Parents should drown children before they let them read the Harry Potter books because of gay character Dumbledore, an extreme right-wing pastor has said.
Preacher Kevin Swanson was speaking at the National Religious Liberties Conference when he made the staggering suggestion during an impassioned rant against homosexuality.
“Friends, we are on the very cusp of judgement as I see it. We need to call America to repent. Repentance from defying the almighty. Repentance of abortion, the hundreds of millions of dead bodies, I don’t know how many,” he began, before bizarrely targeting JK Rowling’s bestselling wizarding novels.
“America, repent of Harry Potter. Repent that Dumbledore emerged as a homosexual mentor for Harry Potter.”
etc...
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...edore-is-gay-says-extreme-right-a6727221.html
Kevin Swanson believes America should repent that Dumbledore 'emerged as a homosexual mentor to Harry Potter'
Jess Denham
Parents should drown children before they let them read the Harry Potter books because of gay character Dumbledore, an extreme right-wing pastor has said.
Preacher Kevin Swanson was speaking at the National Religious Liberties Conference when he made the staggering suggestion during an impassioned rant against homosexuality.
“Friends, we are on the very cusp of judgement as I see it. We need to call America to repent. Repentance from defying the almighty. Repentance of abortion, the hundreds of millions of dead bodies, I don’t know how many,” he began, before bizarrely targeting JK Rowling’s bestselling wizarding novels.
“America, repent of Harry Potter. Repent that Dumbledore emerged as a homosexual mentor for Harry Potter.”
etc...
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...edore-is-gay-says-extreme-right-a6727221.html
Tribble
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Kevin Swanson's probably upset because he did a "Sorting Hat" quiz online and got sorted into Slytherin.
Jesus would probably be a Hufflepuff.
Mythopoeika
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It always amazes me, this contorted thinking. So being gay is a worse sin than murder?
AgProv
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Of course, the occult references in Terry Pratchett's Discworld are even more tongue-in-cheek and even more startling when you pick up on them... as with JKR, I imagine he didn't ascribe any objective reality to them either, and just sees them as puns, gags and one-line jokes. Testament to his being astonishingly well-read and unable to resist the temptation to chuck in obscure references and allusions, just to see if the readership notices!
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