Are All Psychics & Fortune Tellers Fakes?

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Anonymous

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#31
False.

IMO it's lucky guesses and cold reading.

I believe that some people genuinely delude themselves into thinking they are psychic and I believe that some people go out to deliberately fool people. My main criticism is the banality of the messages from the after life. Why does it take a series of questions and guesses ie 'I see a J', 'A man with bad leg says look in the box' to get to a final message????

It also depends on how one percieves coincidences. I remember having a sudden image of a funeral wreath flash into my mind the day my step-brother died but I have always just seen it as a coincidence as in the succeeding years many other images and thouights have occured to me with no ill effect. On this occassion it just matched up. if I had had another kind of mind-set i could have convinced myself I was psychic.

I'm willing to be proved wrong but nothing I've seen has convinced me yet.
 
A

Anonymous

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#32
my view on this issue is the same as the rest of my views on other paranormal phenomena. there is so much bullflop and jibberish out there that makes the issue seem phony and fraudulent, however, there are still some evidence that keep the case open. just finding the people who are willing to bypass, or ignore if you will, the Ms. Cleo garbage and analyze the truely genuine cases of psychic activity is what keeps it in the real of the paranormal.
 

stu neville

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#33
I went with the third option - I believe in everyone having very occasional psychic experiences (whether we notice them or not) but I do not believe in people who can turn it on and off, by proxy on behalf of other people, and invariably for money. Agree with Bluesy that most TV psychics are cold readers, again whether they conciously know it or not. I take it the predictive element is the main thrust of the poll?

On the other hand, whether or not there's a contactable afterlife is a huge area on it's own: spiritualism, psychometry (which is more akin to dowsing IMHO) etc are an entirely different ballgame.
 

Jerry_B

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#34
The work of people like Peter Hurkos is alot more convincing than a thousand 'pay as you go' 'psychics' IMHO ;)
 

stu neville

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#35
Agree entirely - last year I posted a thread on The Brahan Seer, who to my mind is the most consistent foreteller of them all. Stories like that are what have kept my mind open on prediction for years. Seers with an apparently genuine gift invariably get visions they don't expect, when they don't really expect them, and definitely not "off the peg".
 

Anome

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#36
I don't believe that there are any real psychics.

Some people are very good at interpreting things from someone's reactions, behaviour, and expressions. They aren't psychic, though.

Some people are very good at using covert means and deceit to find things out, and present themselves as psychic. They aren't though.

Some people may honestly believe they are psychic, but I doubt they are.

Then again, I could be wrong.
 

NilesCalder

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#38
Were I psychic I wouldn't admit it and probably wouldn't consider myself as such. I've experienced numerous 'psi' phenomina but IMHO one third of it is psychological trickery, one third something truely inexplicable and betwix them lies a third that is a result of the suprising complexity of the human brain.

Of the first instance I present the case of the 'Telekinetic' dice roller who in fact was using a well known technique that would get him run out of any casino in the world. (I've trained as a Croupier, I know how It's done;)).

Of the truely inexplicable I struggle to present any examples :rolleyes: I'm sure someone will present one given time. ;)

Of the middle ground I'm sure we're all familiar with intuitive hunches that later prove accurate. Collective Unconcious, Telepathy, or the subconcious collecting information bellow our awareness and the presenting it out of the blue?
 

Timble2

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#39
I went for the third option, I have the psychic abilities of a brick, but I don't exclude the possibility that a very few people have them.

I think most of the 'psychics' who go on the road, or on TV, are either 'cold reading' or are better than most of us at picking up hints and clues from expressions, postures and possibly at an unconcious level, so that even to the 'psychic' it seems that the information is coming from outside themselves.

I don't doubt that many of the Psychics are sincere, but mistaken on where their information is coming from.

However, there's also many who are conjurers gone bad, deliberately exploiting vulnerable people for money and probably for the feeling of power.

BTW on the 'Blind Psychic' thread, I was aware when I posted it that you can be registered blind and still have some vision, and that it may be possible to 'cold read' without visual clues.

It makes for a better discussion if you act as Devil's Advocate and throw in some contrary opinions. Some threads don't take off because there's nothing to add to the first post.
 

TheOrigDesperado

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#40
I went for No. 3. If the question had been "mediums" rather than "psychics" I would have gone for a total "No."

First off, I don't believe that dead people can communicate with ANYONE, whether they be psychic or not. But I do believe people can pick up on certain forms of as-yet-unknown energy that comprises a natural part of the environment. The more sensitive the person, the more they can pick up on. And maybe this energy can store information about past - and future - events and the human brain then tries to reconcile the experience the best it can, either by producing sensations of vision or sound or touch, etc.

And maybe I'm also in a forgiving mood 'cos I had another "premonition" dream last night. Those of you who are brave enough to read my ramblings will know that I've already posted half a dozen on this board. Anyway, last night I dreamed I was driving really fast and came upon a queue of cars. I overtook recklessly and a guy in a small car pulled out and I swerved to avoid him. There was a huge bus coming the other way and I missed both the car and the bus by inches. This morning I was driving into town and on a section of road that had a shared central overtaking lane I encountered a slow-moving bus with a motorbike following it. I pulled out to overtake, going about 70, and the bike pulled out right infront of me. I only just kept control and swevered around the bike and into the third lane, missing him by a fraction of an inch - right into the path of a massive wagon. The wagon actually clipped my wing-mirror I was so close and I only just got through the gap. It's the nearest I've come to crashing into another vehicle in 17 years of driving.

OK, in my dream it was a car and a bus, and it turned out to be a bike and a wagon (although the bike was passing the bus). But other than that it was absolutely spot on.

I have these dreams maybe half a dozen times a year, sometimes less accurate, but on a couple of occasions much more accurate with a load more detail. I'm not saying they prove anything and I make no claims for being psychic (heaven fordend!) but they do make you think.

And all that was rather OT. Apologies. :)
 
A

Anonymous

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#41
Well, I've never considered "I see dead people" er...people, as psychics. To me, a psychic is someone who can read minds or foretell the future, or have some sort of super-brain power. People like John Edward don't qualify. With that in mind, I do believe in the possibility of psychic power. Things along the lines of remote viewing seem the most plausible.
 
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Anonymous

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#43
Blueswidow said:
False.

IMO it's lucky guesses and cold reading.

I believe that some people genuinely delude themselves into thinking they are psychic and I believe that some people go out to deliberately fool people.
I'd tend to agree with you except for one little thing: on odd occasions throughout my life I have had dreams that have functioned more like flashbacks to events that haven't happened yet.

It's always piddly wee crap: like, for one example, I'm sitting reading with the TV on, and just as I read a particular phrase, there's a knock at the door and I look up and the guy on TV says something specific, and then the dream carries on in a more typically dream-like fashion.

Then a year or so later I'm reading a new book (Flag in Exile by David Weber in fact), and getting a sense of deja vu from a particular paragraph (p. 263, second para), then just as I read the sentence I dreamed about reading there's a knock at the door, and when I look up the guy on TV (one of the talking heads on a Sci Fi short about cloning) says just what was said in the dream.

Nothing useful in it, and totally random, but it really does happen to me.

The John Edward, James van Praagh stuff is all BS tho'.
 

OneWingedBird

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#44
This morning I got a flyer through my letterbox from a local psychic who is touting for business. Usually I laugh at these things and then bin them but this one strikes me as particularly suspect.

A scan of the flyer is here

Some of the claims by Suema the 'Native Indian Woman' about her psychic powers say:

"I have travelled many regions to find cures to heal the sick of many unknown medical problems. Such as Nightmares, Uncontrolled temperaments, Skin disorders, Hearing voices, Polo (?) etc"

"...is your Barren Womb Empty do (sic) to infertility I will make it fruitful..."

"...Protect you against Bad Luck, Jealousy, Envy, Black Magic, Evil Influences that may be in you or around you, these things do exist and can the the cause of all your Sorrow and Pain it will stop you from finding your hapiness it will keep you from moving on in life it will turn your family against you, and it wouldn't stop until you have nothing worth living for."

and she also claims that she can:

"Stop Family Marrying outside of Culture"


I'm pretty sure that some of this must be actionable, particularly the bits about being able to cure infertility and medical problems, but who do I report it to? Would this be a trading standards issue? Advertising standards? Would the council want to know about the claims of her 'business'?

The flyer is printed in pale blue and salmon. Not sure if that's to make it look inoccuous or more to make it a pig to scan or copy (still a bit blurry at 300dpi).


Edit: to strike out phone number.
 
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Anonymous

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#46
The Peniel Insitute (a cult in the town I lived in a few years back) made claims in their free newspaper that they could raise the dead. They were reported to the Advertising Standards Agency and I believe a successful prosecution was brought against them. This sort of claim I'm sure falls in the same field.

Trading standards at your local council might be a good first stop. It's worth a ring, I've contacted them on a few occassions and they are usually extremely helpful and knowledgable
 

Rrose_Selavy

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#50
Fortis said:
Your best bet is the Advertising Standards Agency.
http://www.asa.org.uk

I've had some good experiences with them in the past.

Also, your local Trading Standards people may be worth contacting.
The ASA do have some adjudications on their website from some of these self-claimed "healers" etc. On the issue of not being able to substantiate the claims on their advertising. Unfortunately it usually ends with similar to " The advertiser declined to answer any correspondence from the ASA or commment." and little else can be done.

"Manchester City Council Trading Standards Service objected to two circulars. One stated "BORN WITH THIS KNOWLEDGE FROM GOD INTERNATIONAL SPIRITUAL HEALER AND ADVISOR MR AZIZ can help you: PAY AFTER RESULT. No matter what your problems are I can help you to solve them. If you are a victim, I will break curses protect you and destroy the powers of witchcraft, black magic, bad luck and bring back loved ones. Your problem of love, marriage, sexual/impotency, business careers, exams, court cases will be solved. I will do reading. Call now". The other circular stated "INSHA ALLAH ALL YOUR WISHES WILL COME TRUE IN SEVEN DAYS GUARANTEED. MR KALIFA An African Spiritualists with 300 years Family Experience. Are you constantly suffering from love and many other problems that seem abnormal? I can help you to solve all your problems regarding: LOVE, WORK, LUCK, SUCCESS IN EXAMS, MARRIAGE, BAD LUCK, IMPOTENCY ETC. No matter what your problems are I can help you to solve them even desperate cases to find a loved one in your life or to bring your loved one back into your life forever to put some vitality and luck into your life, for those who feel unloved, unhappy and unlucky to break curses and witchcraft and all kinds of black magic, impotency, business etc ... If your relative, husband, wife, leaves the household, I can make him or her comeback. I can cure people, victims of evil forces and witchcraft. For more information please call, you will get results in seven days 100% guaranteed". The complainants challenged the claims.

Codes Section: 2.6, 3.1, 7.1 (Ed 10)
Adjudication:
Complaint upheld
The advertisers did not respond. The Authority was concerned by the advertisers' lack of response, which it considered a breach of the Codes. The Authority reminded the advertisers of their responsibility to respond to the Authority's enquiries and asked them to do so promptly in future. Because they had not justified their use of the claims, the Authority asked the advertisers to delete them from the circulars and not to repeat them. The Authority asked the Committee of Advertising Practice to inform its members of the problem with the advertisers"
 

OneWingedBird

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#51
I'm in Leeds, England.

I remember the Pennial Academy story Lillith, I have a press clipping of it somewhere, probably would of thought of that if my brain wasn't so scrambled atm.

Looks like I might have a little talk with trading standards on Monday morning.

Btw the link works fine for me, is anyone else having a problem with it?

Thanks
 

stonedog3

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#52
the scan link?

I get server not found... But your excellent description gets around that :)


Kath
 
A

Anonymous

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#53
Fraudulent Psychics - Who do you report them to?

The Ministry of Magic?

Failing that, probably comes under the 'Trades Description Act.' So, the Department of Weights and Measures.

Although, there's also the 'Fraudulent Mediums Act.' That would be the police.
 
A

Anonymous

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#55
Rrose Selavy said:
The ASA do have some adjudications on their website from some of these self-claimed "healers" etc. On the issue of not being able to substantiate the claims on their advertising. Unfortunately it usually ends with similar to " The advertiser declined to answer any correspondence from the ASA or commment." and little else can be done.
It's true that they are more effective against ads appearing in the media, rather than those pushed through your letterbox. A while back I went through a phase of reporting the ads in Nexus magazine. They never appeared again. (Though they were replaced by ads for other scam products. :( )
 

Stormkhan

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#56
One major difficulty is the "healer" probably works from home, can design and print their own flyers on a PC, get mates to distribute them through letter boxes for free ... and some gullible, desperate victims will give it a go, funding the whole process again. ASA, publication in magazines ... what will actually be done apart from a stern letter and a ticking off? It's no use saying "at least people will know it's a scam" because that doesn't work for the SPAM and junk-mail "You've won the lottery, just send us ..." fraud - that's still claiming victims.

Still the ASA and the Council seem to be the best bet. The part about "Stop relatives marrying out of culture" might get some racists screaming about muslims so perhaps it comes under racial incitement? Tricky, though. Most councils can't afford to take these people to court to prove their claims.

Personally, considering their claims, if they were that good then they'd be able to afford better advertising!
 

stu neville

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#57
Stormkhan said:
Personally, considering their claims, if they were that good then they'd be able to afford better advertising!
If indeed they needed to advertise at all.

The marrying out of culture thing cuts both ways: I know of several Xians who don't want their kids marrying outside their faith. You're right that it kind of condones those attitudes by default, but their argument would be it reflects a demand in society rather than creating it.

Mind you, that's what Kilroy tried to argue, too. Worked for him, eh ;)?
 

Stormkhan

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#58
I agree, Stu, but its phrases like this that, by being picked up by some officious beggar can be a trigger for "Political Correctness Gone Mad" stories in the tabloids. My advice to point this out to the local council was wrong. Sorry! The problem with the attempted enforcing of racial intergration is that it will inflame the cultures involved - on both sides - and if anything strengthen prejudices. Wanna marry a Christian/Muslim/Buddist/Other? Fine by me. Just don't make a mess with the confetti!

The problem with Kilroy is that he's a celebrity (although a twat in my opinion) and when he writes in a newspaper column or presents a show, he's been read and listened to by thousands of people. So The Authorities are sensitive to what he says - rightly or wrongly. If he was a "geezer" spouting off in a pub (reflecting the attitude of fellow drinkers or not) it wouldn't be so bad - in the eyes of his employers/PC Plod/ tabloid journalists. It matters not if he was correct/incorrect or racist/"just expressing an opinion" ... it was the number of people he could possibly offend and thereby affect his employers interests. Personally, I think the whole situation was the BBC trying to censor an employees work for another company over a very old article that "slipped through the net" last time.

Anyhow, back to the leaflet ...
 

Kondoru

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#59
Theres an easy way to prevent a multicultural marrage. Threaten to change your will.

(It worked on me.)
 

escargot

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#60
As usual on a Sunday I bought a paranormal book from the car boot sale and read it in the bath later.

Here's what Aidan Chambers has to say about a fraudulent 'ghost photographer'-

'Most famous of all these criminals was a Frenchman called Buguet. He was caught and put on trial in April 1875, fined heavily, and gaoled for a year. In his house the police found cardboard dolls, hand-made heads, and all sorts of other bits and pieces Buguet had used to fake his extras. Yet even though he confessed and revealed his methods many of the people he had so callously duped refused to acknowledge he was guilty and insisted that his photographs of their dead relatives were genuine. There is no limit to self-deception.'

(Aidan Chambers' Book of Ghosts and Hauntings.)
 
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