Are religious leaders above the law?

[ramonmercado]

Are religious leaders above the law?

In Nigeria a religious leader has been arrested for ordering the burning of churchgoers as punishment. In Malawi a Catholic priest has quit to marry his lover.

In Sierra Leone a Muslim leader has told worshippers to who to vote for in the upcoming presidential election and in Kenya a prominent preacher and want-to-be MP is embroiled in a scandal about her marital status.

Are the religious leaders above the law?. Are they accountable for their actions and the influence they have on people's lives? What do we do when religious leaders say they are following God's orders?

Should religious leaders be allowed to do and say what they want? What if anything should be done control in influence of religious leaders on society and in politics?


If you would like to join Africa Have Your Say to debate this topic LIVE on air on Wednesday 17 January 1600 GMT, please include a telephone number. It will not be published. You can also send an SMS text message to +44 77 86 20 20 08.

Published: Monday, 15 January, 2007, 16:51 GMT 16:51 UK

ADD YOUR COMMENT at link.


http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread. ... 0116105453

COMMENTS

Added: Tuesday, 16 January, 2007, 10:54 GMT 10:54 UK

I feel religious leaders are not always perfect in whatever they do,so they need to obey views of their christians and like wise, and it will seem unGodly to see religious leaders indulge themselves in politics publicly as it can bring division among the christians instead of following the morals of God which can distort our society.Please know that 'as you watch on us the almighty God/Allah is also watching on you'.

eric abima, arua,uganda


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Added: Tuesday, 16 January, 2007, 10:39 GMT 10:39 UK

They should not be allowed to do what they want but should be allowed to say what they want because they are entiltled to their own opinion and its now left for their followers to distinguish between false and truth.many religious followers are gullible because of the so called miracles they are after but failed to understand or realised that religious leaders are not better off them if they can read their bibles and koran well to their understanding.

Tunde Onibode, Lagos Nigeria


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Added: Tuesday, 16 January, 2007, 10:14 GMT 10:14 UK

When we get religious leaders involved in anything other than religion, everything goes wrong. Once, people thought of involving them in a campaign against HIV/AIDS, it went only to see them condemning the use of condoms! Orthodox Christian Church leaders are also the ones to blame for dictating and amending it into the religious doctrine, when to work and when to observe religious days, in which case the later stood dominating the former.

We should put them only to serving their purposes.

Tsedale L. gemmechu, Addis Ababa


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Added: Tuesday, 16 January, 2007, 10:06 GMT 10:06 UK

It is economic desperation that has driven our longsuffering people into the hands of these sophisticated brutes, crooks, and scoundrels who call themselves "pastors," not religion. An appalling level of illiteracy (even among our university graduates!) also makes it impossible for people to think rationally. In sum, it's all to do with our rulers' unwillingness to provide proper education, healthcare and an economy capable of offering employment.

AKPAN, Kent, UK/Nigeria


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Added: Tuesday, 16 January, 2007, 09:24 GMT 09:24 UK

Why is this argument precipitating with an issue in Africa. Didn't Donald Rumsfelds comments that he felt he was doing God's work in Iraq establish that our right wingers have an almost militant political stance goevrned by their religion? Iran's hierarchical structure is also evidence of religion superseding politics. This issue arises because the common man has left the interpretation of scriptures to the clergy, who apparently have not the skill to read the actual messages therein.

Aniruddh, Madras


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Added: Tuesday, 16 January, 2007, 09:10 GMT 09:10 UK

Religious leaders should not be above the law for whatever reasons.
They should be agents of integration in the society, as prescribed by scholars like Talcott Parsons.
Also, followers should be wary of false prophets as prophesied by CHRST, especially in the last days.
Man should follow reason, as he has been created to be a rational being by the Creator!

Ashipa James Olashupo, Abuja-Nigeria


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Added: Tuesday, 16 January, 2007, 09:07 GMT 09:07 UK

We are all rational beings so, individuals should be able to know what's right or wrong. Most of the so called religious leaders are dogmatic in their ideas and doings. I can say boldly that, they are not above the law. If anyone of them offends me or the state,i and the state 'll treat him or her like an offender. People should rise up and think for them self's as against so called religious leaders thinking for them.

Nnamdi, Port-Harcourt, N igeria


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Added: Tuesday, 16 January, 2007, 08:37 GMT 08:37 UK

NO ONE should be above the law. religious leadres in Africa seem to think they are above the law as their interests are protected by the Dictators that we have for leaders. Such shameful incidences are not confined to Sierra Leone, Nigeria and Malawi only. In Zimbabwe one religious leader has been accused of rape but has got away with it simply because he sings praises for Mugabe. Whatever happened to setting a good example and leading your flock. GOD HELP US!!!!!!!

Anne, Exeter (zimbabwean)


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Added: Monday, 15 January, 2007, 20:21 GMT 20:21 UK

Ignorance, poverty and the need to belong leave people venerable to con artists turned 'religious leaders'. Legitimate govermental involvement and a available social programs will eradicate most of this nonsense. These criminals should be jailed, especially for tempering with the already-difficult political process.

African Child, Liberia/US

 

[ramonmercado]

Ane example of religious leaders going over the top?

No Voters’ Card, No Holy Communion, Says Bishop
From Francis Ugwoke in Enugu, 01.16.2007

The Catholic Church in Nsukka, Enugu State, has directed its members to take the forthcoming elections very serious and warned that adult members who do not possess the voters’ card would not be allowed to take Holy Communion in the Church.

In a bulletin circulated in the various Catholic churches in the zone last Sunday, parishioners were told not to be dismayed by the outcome of past elections in which the votes of the people did not matter because of massive rigging by politicians.

The statement from the Church gave the parishioners up till February 7, to possess voters’ cards or they will not be allowed not just from receiving Holy Communion but from other sacraments.

“You are advised after collecting your voters’ cards to register your names in your zone/ward in the book of record made available by your parish priests. Whoever has not collected the voters’ cards after February 7, has automatically alienated himself or herself from the community, the Church, the nation and will not be allowed to receive the Holy Communion and other sacraments”, the statement added.

Asking parishioners to go for the ongoing registration exercise by the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC), the Catholic Diocese of Nsukka under Bishop Francis Okobo, told members of the Church to disregard the belief that the votes of the people will not count and that going to vote during the coming election is a mere waste of time.
“You might have often heard much about the statements that, the election has been concluded, that your votes will not count and that you will definitely be wasting your precious time if you go out to vote.

“The Catholic Secretariat of Nsukka wishes to inform you that all these are calculated political propaganda aimed at creating despondency in you so that they will steal away an unmerited victory. You are reminded and requested to quickly get yourselves registered, if you have not done that, because it is your civic responsibility and a sacred duty.

“As adults (18 years and above), you are doing great disservice to the Church and the nation if you fail to register. You should know that it is your right to register, to have voters’ cards, to vote and that with your voters’ cards, you shall be able to enthrone true democracy by willful, correct choices of leaders through the ballot boxes”, the bulletin read.

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=68133

 

[synchronicity]

Good Lord!! (No pun intended. ).

I can understand the Church's desire to have people involved in their government, and it's fine (IMHO) for them to encourage people to register to vote and to take their civil right to vote seriously.

BUT--denying them Holy Communion if they don't show a voter registration card??? :shock: Do they seriously propose excommunication (which is what it sounds like) just because someone hasn't registered to vote?? Now that is outrageous! I would only hope the Vatican would step in and tell these guys to back off--but you never know.

I absolutely reject the notion that any church and/or religous leaders are above the law. No one is above the law--that path leads to dictatorship, oppression, and God knows what kinds of other abuses.

If anything, religious leaders should be held to a higher standard--let them practice what they preach!!!

 

[OldTimeRadio]

In Nigeria a religious leader has been arrested for ordering the burning of churchgoers as punishment. In Malawi a Catholic priest has quit to marry his lover.

Is somebody arguing that these two events even compare?

 

[ramonmercado]

In Nigeria a religious leader has been arrested for ordering the burning of churchgoers as punishment. In Malawi a Catholic priest has quit to marry his lover.

Is somebody arguing that these two events even compare?

I don't, it was stuck in the middle.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

I don't, it was stuck in the middle.

Ramon, I wasn't blaming you in the least. It just struck me as two really incongrous things for the original author to juxtapose together in a single paragraph - a minister ordering his congregants burned to death and a priest leaving the Church to get married.

It's difficult to escape the feeling that the author sees them both as equally foul.

 

[gl5211]

In my opinion religious leaders should not be above the law. If anything they should be held to a higher standard, while they ARE human beings and therefore make mistakes, they also accept responsibility and leadership to a flock and therefore must uphold a higher standard. But just shows why they should have years of training and study before being allowed to lead.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

In my opinion religious leaders should not be above the law. If anything they should be held to a higher standard, while they ARE human beings and therefore make mistakes, they also accept responsibility and leadership to a flock and therefore must uphold a higher standard.

Exactly. And it's precisely because of that higher standard that when a minister or priest or rabbi morally errs, or worse, it becomes salacious front-page news.

But just shows why they should have years of training and study before being allowed to lead.

I have to disagree with you there. The single best pastor I've ever known had little if any formal theological training. He was highly educated but his doctorate was in English Literature. (The church hired him away from the English Department at the University of Kentucky.)

And I think we get onto slippery ground if we assume that God only calls to preach graduates of Vanderbilt University Theological Seminary.

 

[gl5211]

have to disagree with you there. The single best pastor I've ever known had little if any formal theological training. He was highly educated but his doctorate was in English Literature. (The church hired him away from the English Department at the University of Kentucky.)


I do agree with you, I should have clarified i didn't mean academic training. I meant more like being an apprentice. Working under other ministers, understanding what it takes in the calling. Seeing in many cases, what NOT to do. I also think they should be required to work under more than one pastor and in different economic settings. Much how teachers do when they "student teach".. they should "student preach".
They should work under differnt ministers too, just so they can see different styles of ministry and also to keep unethical practices from taking hold. I know all of this is impractical, but I think would maybe thin the herd a bit.

Maybe its worse here in the states where there isn't an established state church and well much to many different types of churches.

 

[ramonmercado]

Trinity College Dublin is looking for a Lecturer in its Theology School if anyones interested.

 

[ramonmercado]

Here we go, Trinity takes its NT seriously.

Post Title: Lectureship in New Testament
Status: Permanent
Dept/Faculty: School of Religions and Theology
Salary: €34,678 - €69,985 / €72,317 - €79,489 per annum (Appointment will be made between points 1-12 i.e. €34,678 - €69,985)
Closing Date: 12 Noon on Friday, 16th February, 2007
The School wishes to make an appointment as part of the implementation of the College's and School's strategic plan.
Candidates must have a Ph.D in New Testament. The appointee will be expected to be actively engaged in research, contribute to the lecturing programme of the School, undertake undergraduate and postgraduate supervision, and participate in departmental administration.
The appointment will be tenable from 1st September, 2007.
Standard duties of the Post
• Teaching and research in New Testament studies
• Departmental administration
Person Specification
Qualifications
• Ph.D. in an appropriate area of New Testament studies
Knowledge & Experience (Essential & Desirable)
• The appointment will be made in an area of New Testament studies appropriate to the interests and activities of the School.
Skills & Competencies
• The successful candidate should have a competence to teach, inter alia, New Testament Greek.
Department Summary
General Department Information
The Lectureship will be held within the Department of Religions and Theology. The School was established in 1980 as a single department. It is heir to a long tradition in the teaching of Biblical Studies, Semitic Languages and Divinity, dating back to the foundation of the college in 1592. The school offers degree courses within the University's Single and Joint Honor programmes, leading to the B.A. (Moderatorship). An annual intake of about 50 students is admitted to three courses: the Single Honor course in Biblical and Theological Studies, and the two-subject Moderatorship course in Jewish Studies. In addition, the School provides service teaching for the B.Th. degree for ordinands of the Church of Ireland , and has also contributed to courses offered by the Irish School of Ecumenics. The Philosophy of the School is non-denominational. Over a number of decades the School has been an active and significant participant in the public debate on religious and theological issues in Ireland . It is envisaged that this open and inclusive approach, both within and outside the University, will be maintained and developed. The Herzog Centre for Jewish and Near Eastern Religion and Cultures functions within the School as a framework for further developments in Jewish and Near Eastern Studies, providing a focus for fundraising towards the establishment of lectureships and graduate awards in the area. The Centre co-ordinates various outreach events such as public lectures, conferences and international contacts for students. It is anticipated that, in a parallel development, Islamic Studies will be added to the range of teaching and research activities within the School. The appointment to the lectureship in New Testament studies will be made in any area of New Testament studies appropriate to the interests and activities of the School. Full details of the staff of the School of Religions and Theology, research activities, and courses available may be found on our website: www.tcd.ie/religions_theology
We welcome applications by e-mail. Please note there is no application form to be completed.
Candidates should submit a full curriculum vitae together with the name and contact details of 3 referees, a letter of application and an outline of proposed research projects to
Recruitment Executive
Staff Office
Trinity College
Dublin 2

Tel: +353 1 896 1749
Fax: +353 1 677 2694
Email:[email protected]
TRINITY COLLEGE IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES EMPLOYER

 

[ramonmercado]

Some religiou leaders rquire the protection of the law. I hope he gets his goats back.

Army Rescues Bishop From Mob

New Vision (Kampala)
NEWS
January 21, 2007
Posted to the web January 22, 2007

By Nathan Etengu
Kampala

The UPDF on Friday had to rescue the Catholic Bishop of Kotido from a mob that pelted him with stones.

The Rt. Rev. Dennis Kiwanuka had a rough reception when he arrived at Morulem parish in Abim district last Friday for a meeting with his flock.

A mob of Catholic youth, women and middle-aged men descended upon him, threatening to lynch the policemen who had accompanied him.

The crowd destroyed the bishop's pick-up truck, looted property at the church parish and made off with goats, chicken and sheep.

"They demonstrated because I had refused to ordain one of their sons to priesthood," Bishop Kiwanuka commented by telephone. "That deacon knows very well why he cannot be ordained. He has some obstacles that he has to remove first," he added, without giving details.

The bishop revealed that he took refuge at the residence of the parish priest until the UPDF rescued him.

The commanding officer of the UPDF 407 Brigade, Lt. Col. Michael Ondoga, said the army intervened after the bishop made an SOS call using his mobile phone. "We intervened and saved him from the mob. However, a lot of property, including the bishop's vehicle, had been damaged," Ondoga said.

Bishop Kiwanuka said he had travelled to Morulem to explain why the Rev. Francis Obura could not be ordained. "But the community misunderstood the whole thing and accused me of marginalising their area in terms of priesthood and development."

Bishop Kiwanuka is not a stranger to mobs. On October 29, 2006, armed warriors looted 58 goats belonging to the diocese, when they went on a rampage following clashes between the UPDF and Karimojong warriors in Lopuyo, close to Kotido town. The goats have never been recovered.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200701220117.html

 

[ramonmercado]

Not sure if this story fits on the thread. But take the Bishops comments into account: if anyone else said those things it would actionable. Libel and damage to business prospects.

Austrian bishop stirs passions with talk of excommunication

Feb. 7, 2007 (Kath.net/CWNews.com) - An Austrian bishop has loosed a firestorm of debate by announcing the excommunication of a Catholic entrepreneur who owns a shopping mall in which an abortion clinic has opened.

Bishop Andreas Laun, an auxiliary of the Salzberg archdiocese, said that Richard Lugner was guilty of a grave offense, “aiding and abetting the killing of unborn children,” because he allowed the abortion clinic to operate in his mall. When the German-language Catholic news agency Kath.net questioned whether Lugner had brought the penalty of excommunication upon himself, Bishop Laun replied, “Certainly.”

Cardinal Christoph Schönborn (bio - news) of Vienna told Kath.net that he had tried to persuade Lugner that he should not allow an abortion clinic as a tenant in his mall. “The destruction of life,” he said, “must not be seen as something like a shopping trip.”

However, the cardinal stopped well short of sayng that Lugner was excommunicated, and a spokesman for the Vienna archdiocese discouraged “academic discussions about excommunication.”

Undaunted by the furor his comments had created, and by Lugner’s threat to sue, Bishop Laun continued to speak out emphatically. The bishop-- who has joined other pro-life activists in prayer vigils outside Lugner’s shopping center in Vienna-- told Kath.net that the pro-life organization Action for Life Austria, which has won informal endorsements from the country’s episcopal conference, does not deserve Catholic support, because it has taken taken public stands on issues like contraception that are “in contradiction to the teachings of the Church and to right reason.”

In a lengthy German-language interview with Kath.net, Bishop Laun said that “in the beginning I was a fellow soldier with Action for Life Austria; now it would be against my conscience to support them.”

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=49117

 

[hokum6]

What do we do when religious leaders say they are following God's orders?

I'll tell you what we do. We ask them to provide some evidence for God's existence. They can have 90 days to do it.

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

not quite a religious leader but there is an interesting case going on in scotland at the moment. a young polish woman was recently killed (and buried, iirc) in a chapel in paisley. the main suspect is a convicted sex offender who was working in the church (unbeknown apparently) but it recently emerged that the priest had been having an affair with her. it's not received much coverage though.

edit

just come across this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6340577.stm

 

[ghostdog19]

not quite a religious leader but there is an interesting case going on in scotland at the moment. a young polish woman was recently killed (and buried, iirc) in a chapel in paisley. the main suspect is a convicted sex offender who was working in the church (unbeknown apparently) but it recently emerged that the priest had been having an affair with her. it's not received much coverage though.

So, guilty by association, aye? I'm assuming the witness the article talks about is this priest?

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

So, guilty by association, aye? I'm assuming the witness the article talks about is this priest?

presumably. i haven't seen him being referred to as a witness elsewhere though. in the offending articles (i don't know whether i can put them up here or not) he's directly quoted in what seems to be an interview. it'll be interesting to see how this is reported when the legal shackles come off.

 

[ramonmercado]

The Hypocrisy Hunter's Guide
Sex, politics and religion have been bedfellows since 1804.

BY DEBBY APPLEGATE
Friday, February 9, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST

The announcement this week that the Rev. Ted Haggard has embraced therapy and discovered his true heterosexuality rounds off a year of scandals that have plagued the powerful Religious Right-Republican Party alliance. It began with revelations about disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff's back-room dealings with Ralph Reed, former golden boy of the Christian Coalition; gained momentum with Mark Foley's emails; and peaked with Mr. Haggard's spectacular gay-sex scandal.

Among Republicans there has been much hand-wringing over the moral decline of the party's leadership, and--a continuing theme--our waning days as a Christian nation. In turn, Democrats and hypocrisy-hunters have offered gleeful "I told you so's" and redoubled their calls for a return to an era before the rise of the Moral Majority, before religion thrust itself into the political sphere.

Unfortunately, both sides are nostalgic for "good old days" that never existed. Sex, politics and religion have been regular, if cantankerous, bedfellows since 1804--when the Rev. Timothy Dwight, then head of Yale College, warned voters that if they didn't toss Thomas Jefferson out of office, the president "would make our wives and daughters the victims of legalized prostitution."

In fact, as the historian John H. Summers has observed, the 19th century suffered many more scandals than the 20th, when evolving standards of personal privacy, political professionalism and objective journalism brought a new decorum to public discourse. Ironically, a resurgence came in the 1980s, as the evangelical Christian movement began its political ascent, suggesting that mixing religious righteousness with politics may cause more imbroglios than it prevents.





The biggest of the 19th-century scandals, during the presidential election of 1884, offers a case in point. After a decade of government-corruption outrages--including the Whiskey Ring and Boss Tweed's Tammany Hall--the country had what we'd now call "scandal fatigue." Thus many Republicans were infuriated when their party's presidential nomination went to James G. Blaine, the former secretary of state who was dogged by rumors of graft and profiteering.
The Rev. Henry Ward Beecher, at the time America's most celebrated preacher and the Republican Party's most influential religious champion, was particularly incensed by Blaine's nomination. The minister had campaigned aggressively for every Republican presidential candidate since the party's founding in the 1850s. He promoted candidates from the pulpit of his 3,000-seat "mega-church" in Brooklyn, N.Y., and spoke at rallies nationwide, urging all good Christians to vote Republican.

For Beecher, Blaine's nomination was the final straw after years of growing disgust with both the ethical shenanigans in Washington and the GOP's shift from being the party of moral reform to the party of big business. This time, he declared, he was backing the Democratic candidate, Grover Cleveland. The former governor of New York had won a reputation for rare rectitude, earning the nickname "Grover the Good."

Just as Beecher announced his defection, a firestorm erupted: Newspapers reported that as a young bachelor in Buffalo, N.Y., Cleveland had fathered a child out of wedlock. Cleveland responded by confessing that he had indeed paid support to the child's mother for the past 14 years.

Most ministers would have abandoned the accused sinner, but Beecher was not like other men of the cloth. Only 10 years before he had faced down his own national sex scandal after being accused of seducing a married woman in his congregation. When the cuckolded husband sued Beecher in civil court, the story generated more press coverage than the entire Civil War. Unlike Cleveland, however, Beecher denied all, and the trial ended in a hung jury, allowing the minister to retain the mantle of innocence, however muddied.

When the Cleveland illegitimate-child story broke, Beecher's friends urged him to back off and save his own reputation. Instead, he threw all his weight behind the Democrat, who was continually taunted for his peccadillo during the unusually nasty campaign, including the famous ditty: "Ma! Ma! Where's my pa? Gone to the White House, Ha! Ha! Ha!"

Beecher seemed to take these slings personally; indeed, to be invigorated by them. As the campaign grew uglier, his rhetoric grew more reckless. "If every man in New York State tonight, who has broken the seventh commandment, voted for Cleveland, he would be elected by 200,000 majority!" he shouted at rallies, shocking even his most devoted followers and rekindling rumors of his own infidelity.

Beecher's instincts about the electorate were right, however. Cleveland won by a tiny margin, put over the top by New York. The victory came partly because voters believed that Cleveland had honorably confessed his mistake and partly because they found the Republican candidate's alleged financial and ethical transgressions slightly more repellent than the Democrat's sexual misdeed.





If history offers a lesson in these matters, it is that leaders take a large risk when they embrace the rhetoric of religious righteousness. Americans are awfully forgiving, but they harden their hearts to coverup and hypocrisy. Cleveland was saved from his sin by candor. Beecher's role reminds us that the task of a great moral teacher is not to condemn others from on high but to show us that we are all sinners and that the only figures worthy of public trust are those who have the courage to grapple honestly with their flaws. As Beecher so aptly put it: "Cant is the twin sister of hypocrisy."

Ms. Applegate's "The Most Famous Man in America: The Biography of Henry Ward Beecher" (Doubleday, 2006) is a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110009645

 

[stonedog2]

not quite a religious leader but there is an interesting case going on in scotland at the moment. a young polish woman was recently killed (and buried, iirc) in a chapel in paisley. the main suspect is a convicted sex offender who was working in the church (unbeknown apparently) but it recently emerged that the priest had been having an affair with her. it's not received much coverage though.

edit

just come across this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6340577.stm

Er.... the link is about the case in a city centre Glasgow Church. Is there another one is Paisley?

And in which case is the Priest involved or is it just totally duff reporting?

Kath

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Er.... the link is about the case in a city centre Glasgow Church. Is there another one is Paisley?

And in which case is the Priest involved or is it just totally duff reporting?

Kath

I believe these are both the same case. The links to the right of the BBC story will bring up earlier material.

But what's the source for the information that the parish priest was sexually involved?

 

[stonedog2]

I live in Glasgow this is a local case for us. Or is it cases

The one in the BBC link is well known and fits in with all the other media coverage here.

Paisley is a different town. Church and chapel have different meanings and wouldn't be conclusive but the one associated with the known-about murder is usually called "church".

either there are two cases (one of which nobody i've asked this evening has heard of) or the info about the Paisley Chapel is duff.... and the info about the priest. Gossip? Genuine suppression of info?

Nobody I've asked so far has heard about this angle. Is it genuine and therefore to be promulgated?

Kath

 

[ghostdog19]

Nobody I've asked so far has heard about this angle. Is it genuine and therefore to be promulgated?

Not sure that it really fits the topic of this thread.

 

[stonedog2]

The thread is "Are religious leaders above the law?"

The question is "Has this priest and religious leader managed to supress public discussion of his activities?"

Which has a direct relationship to any ability to be above the law.

What are you seeing that means there isn't a connection? I'm sure the mods will do any necessary split, move, merge or whatever if you want to suggest it in the reorganisation thread.

Kath

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Not sure that it really fits the topic of this thread.

Why not? It strikes me as 100 percent on-target, so it's usually profitable to discover how the same information can strike two Forteans so differently.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

I live in Glasgow this is a local case for us. Or is it cases

Sorry, mea culpa, I wasn't attempting to be supercillious. And even if I had been, all I would have done is prove myself a fool. :chuffed:

 

[stu neville]

Not sure that it really fits the topic of this thread.

Why not? It strikes me as 100 percent on-target, so it's usually profitable to discover how the same information can strike two Forteans so differently.

It's fine - you're both on topic.

Can we establish if there are actually two cases or it is the same one from markedly different angles? This form of triangulation is quite rare in our neck of the woods, and could prove very useful on a macro-Fortean scale as well .

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

apologies. working from memory i recalled the case to be in paisley (it's the greenockian in me ). it's one case and it's in glasgow. in scotland roman catholic churches are commonly referred to as chapel whilst church (or 'kirk' if you want to be traditional) would refer to the church of scotland.

as i mentioned before i'm not sure whether or not i can paste the articles (both print and internet) on this board. i know other messageboards operating in scotland have been warned against discussion of the case.

 

[ghostdog19]

Not sure that it really fits the topic of this thread.

Why not? It strikes me as 100 percent on-target, so it's usually profitable to discover how the same information can strike two Forteans so differently.

It's fine - you're both on topic.

How is it a story about a priest believing themselves to be above the law?

 

[ghostdog19]

apologies. working from memory i recalled the case to be in paisley (it's the greenockian in me ). it's one case and it's in glasgow. in scotland roman catholic churches are commonly referred to as chapel whilst church (or 'kirk' if you want to be traditional) would refer to the church of scotland.

as i mentioned before i'm not sure whether or not i can paste the articles (both print and internet) on this board. i know other messageboards operating in scotland have been warned against discussion of the case.

I'm wondering if, as it develops, this story deserves a thread of its on, probably more fitting on Mainstream News?

 

[ted_bloody_maul]

apologies. working from memory i recalled the case to be in paisley (it's the greenockian in me ). it's one case and it's in glasgow. in scotland roman catholic churches are commonly referred to as chapel whilst church (or 'kirk' if you want to be traditional) would refer to the church of scotland.

as i mentioned before i'm not sure whether or not i can paste the articles (both print and internet) on this board. i know other messageboards operating in scotland have been warned against discussion of the case.

I'm wondering if, as it develops, this story deserves a thread of its on, probably more fitting on Mainstream News?

that will depend on to what extent they report on the affair. the priest isn't on any charge at present. it could arguably be moved into conspiracy if the clampdown on reporting the affair continues after the case though.